Hamas attacks Gazan civilians

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2elr16jjqo
Tumbleweed from the pro pals on this but if Hamas attack civiians isn't that a 'genocide' or is that term only reserved for Israel?.Will the marchers in London be confusing this if it happens ..... simple answer no.

Criticise the person - not what they are actually trying to say.

I think it’s trying to describe a particular kind of person not people who are broadly supportive of Palestinian civilians. People who minimise crimes against Israelis and others (Indian, Thai citizens etc) are incapable of holding Hamas responsible for anything and say “buh Israel” to literally everything. The reality is most arab societies rely on heavy handedness to maintain order or are basically riven with sectarianism, honour culture etc etc. gaza is no different in this respect.

Oh come on. Whe some of you chuck about 'genocide apologists' on a regular basis I really don't think you should get upset about 'pro pals'. It is a factual label not a slur.

'But hamas' caused all this so that one will indeed continue too.

How indeed? They will need to comply.

Israel and the US shouldn’t send troops and really who wants to send anyone in to battle Hamas on the ground?

'I still think Arab nations peacekeeping force should be used'

I would love to see Saudi lead on it, they wouldn't tiptoe around hamas like the UN & co do. They'd soon have some kind of order in place.

As an aside I can't believe all the new selfies of that UN fool Tom fletcher online grinning with gazans as if he's their saviour. How on earth is he even still in post.

No they shouldn’t, it’s not worth it for the IDF to have ti pick this up. The international community has condemned them enough it’ll have to be someone else, if anyone will do it.

I also thought an arab peacekeeping force would be for the best tbh. Something that would be acceptable to civilians, and would be difficult for Hamas to fight, ideally gulf arabs. I wouldn’t blame Gazans for not wanting the IDF and the IDF have taken enough flak from the international community.

The reality is this is an internal Gazan issue, it was happening before but not as overtly, Israel are not fundamentally responsible for this and I think it would be unreasonable to try to make it their problem. Yes food aid, medical aid etc etc. but expecting them to protect Palestinians from other Palestinians while yelling at them for a war against the Palestinians is probably a bit unreasonable. The reality is if they did they would be accused of reinvading.

It’s tragic, if Hamas regain control then this will probably happen again in a few years. They really are a death cult. I sincerely hope the arab countries decide enough is enough and just ship in soldiers to get control of the security situation and to make sure aid is given not sold to people.

Oh come on yourself!!

Genocide is a factual label too.

And do you really think hamas caused all this?? Do you think events only started on October 7th?

Take off the blinkers.

Genocide apologist is not a factual label it is offensive and untrue as you well know.

Yep hamas caused all this. The terrorists have always been the problem as gazans are sadly experiencing.

My 'blinkers' are off. You perhaps need to read up on it all a bit.

The reason I use the term ‘useful idiots’ is because that’s what they are.
Did the people on the flotilla really think £100k of aid was going to help the people in Gaza?
I wonder how many of the people disrupting UK cities, chanting repulsive slogans and making others feel unsafe actually entered into any real discourse on what the future looked like for a ‘Free Palestine’ and how and if Gaza can ever be free of the grip of Hamas and their stranglehold on ordinary people. We don’t even know if a significant number of the population want Hamas gone.
I’m sure many will have signed petitions to see Netanyahu tried for war crimes but I fear few will have lobbied their MPs or the UN to send in a peace-keeping force.

The term "pro Pal" as generally used is not an insult and I don't know why people would suddenly act like it is. Neither is "Israel supporters" an insult.

Some people do use both terms in a negative way when arguing with people but the terms themselves are not derogatory, merely used descriptively to show which side of the war people mainly align with. Though I would like to think the majority of us on MN have sympathy for both Israeli and Gazan civilians caught up in a war they did not personally choose to be in.

The conflict between Hamas and their ilk may have started before 7/10 but Hamas undeniably did start this current war (you can call it genocide if you prefer).

That is why I support Israel in this current conflict.

If, in a few years time, Israel attacks Palestinians out of the blue and massacres/rapes 1,200 mainly civilians including women and children and kidnaps others - then in the next war I will be on the side of Palestine.

"Tumbleweed from the pro pals on this."

I can't make any sense of this sentence at all. What does it mean? Who are pro pals? Professional friends? And what does tumbleweed mean in this instance?

Exactly! No war starts the day of the war, there is always a history of provocation before the war.

Hamas chose to trigger this particular war and they had political reasons for doing so. They are the aggressors of this war and people minimising this are just playing into Hamas propaganda.

The IDF and Israel government may be guilty of many things during this war but they are not guilty of starting it. Let Hamas take the blame for that - they are a terrorist organisation after all, they don't need people in the West to defend their actions!

100% agree.

The IDF have done enough to try to combat the threat of Hamas, it's surely up to the army of another country/other countries now.

I think you should maybe read up on it all a bit more and use Google for phrases you don't understand. It's a perfectly comprehensible sentence if you use critical thinking.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt and all that.

If I were Israel and the IDF, I wouldn't go near the mess, they'd just be called genocidal again.
I agree it should be a Saudi-led regional coalition.

Some horrific footage on X this morning, a man getting his legs broken with concrete because he posted about being grateful for food aid a while back.

Propaganda school? It's a phrase often attributed to Lenin regarding his western supporters. It could be applied to socialists and communists who brought the ayatollah to power in Iran and paid with their lives.
Propaganda, according to Google, was a term used by the Roman Catholic church to spread it's doctrine. Hasbara is a term used by many on here to undermine the credibility of information that supports Israel or is just not completely condemning it. Taqiyyah is a useful, culturally subjective word too.

I didn't learn these words at 'school' or university, life is a process of continuous learning by many processes imo.

@quantumbutterfly when I hear "propaganda school", the first thing that comes to mind is those dreadful UNRWA-funded Gazan schools that teach small children to hate Jewish people.

I have to say, for people who care so deeply about Palestinians, there's an awful lot of attempts at distraction from actually discussing their current suffering.

Poor man obviously forgot the rhetoric he was supposed to be using was that the GHF were monsters trying to feed people.

China is a middle eastern ally with an advanced army, as is Russia. If only the 'superpowers' could stop vying for dominance and resources (half past never).

As ever peaceniks prefer jaw jaw to war war, but we're clueless to 'behind the scenes' power plays. Ignoring them on our doorsteps seems a bit foolish though.

The IDF exists solely to butcher innocent civilians, not “save them”. Which I’m sure you’re aware of.

I'm glad we're not doing hyperbole on this thread 😂

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