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Conflict in the Middle East

How is forced starvation allowed?

1000 replies

Tinycatnoise · 23/07/2025 22:28

The top story in the BBC right now is the starvation of Gazans by Israel. The images are horrifying and not dissimilar to seeing those images of concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I cried seeing those and am crying now. I am sure someone will claim antisemitism because of this statement, but anyone looking at these images of starving children would agree.

How is this still going on? I feel like we are watching a genocide take place that the world has turning a blind eye to. The daily shooting by Israel of people trying to get aid too is just barbaric. If nothing is being done to stop this, what is the next horror that will unfold in the world that people will just accept?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9xkx7vnmxo

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PinkBobby · 29/07/2025 15:54

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 15:38

@Wedonttalkaboutboris And on the leaked email- it’s also worth asking: if there’s “mounting evidence” of famine and aid breakdowns coming from multiple independent orgs (like the UN, WFP, MSF, and HRW), is it really biased to report it plainly? Especially when children are dying of malnutrition?

I'm not denying that there is mounting evidence of famine and malnutrition in Gaza. This should be reported and it is being reported.

But yes, the BBC can still be a biased organisation if they don't report the facts without bias. In my opinion staff should not be told that ‘the argument over how much aid has crossed into Gaza is irrelevant’ or told what they should say.

The email directs staff to reference ‘mounting evidence’ of starvation and deaths around aid centres, yet makes no mention of Hamas operatives looting convoys, obstructing access, or even firing on civilians attempting to collect food – allegations which have been made publicly by Israel and backed at times by video and eyewitness testimony.

They should refer to Hamas as the proscribed terrorists they are in the UK and not appear to accept them as a reputable source of information. It's fair enough if individual journalists want to write articles that are critical of Israel but there should be more attempt at balancing this with criticism of Hamas.

I’m catching up on this thread and will reply to various things but I was wondering whether the leaked email is actually available to read in full, @Twiglets1 The Spectator article is behind a paywall so I can’t read the whole thing but you’ve given me an idea of the substance.

I ask because the snippets that have been used in the article are just that - snippets. We don’t know what the original sentence was or the context it was in.

For example: Instead, “we [staff] should say” that the current distribution system “doesn’t work.” If the sentence before this was “we shouldn’t blame Israel or Hamas directly. Instead…”.

Or “the argument over how much aid has crossed into Gaza is irrelevant…”, what is important is that it is clearly not enough.

I am not saying that is definitely the case but I think it is worth bearing in mind that a heavily redacted version of a leaked email can easily be edited to suit a narrative. Especially if the person picking and choosing snippets is keen to undermine the BBC. Seeing the leaked email in full would at least enable us to fully understand the extent of the BBC’s wrongdoing rather than a series of selected phrases.

If the full email is available somewhere, please can someone share?

sualipa · 29/07/2025 15:54

Gloriia · 29/07/2025 15:13

Disgusting isn't it. Doesn't matter what the spectator supports this email is from the BBC. No wonder Jeremy Bowen spouts such crap.

My brother is a retired senior executive at the BBC, so I’ve had something of an insider’s view of the organisation. It has always leaned progressive in its outlook but then again, so do many long-established institutions. Contrary to what some might claim, it was full of good people trying to do good work.

He worked with Danny Cohen when Cohen was Director of BBC Television, before he left for more lucrative opportunities. Strangely, Cohen never seemed to raise concerns about any alleged deep-rooted antisemitism while he was still on the payroll. And yet now, from the outside, he seems determined to smear and dismantle the very organisation that helped build his career.

In fact, he appears to be leading the charge to undermine the BBC’s impartiality when it comes to coverage of Israel pressuring it to adopt a more one-sided narrative. It’s a sad turn of events but like Robert Maxwell before him his place on the Mount of Olives looks to be in the bag.

www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2015/danny-cohen

Alexandra2001 · 29/07/2025 16:01

ConscientiousObserver · 29/07/2025 13:45

Hmm, do you not think it might have something to do with giving away the positions of soldiers, bases etc?

Are you a military expert who has fought in war zones such as this?

Are you? seems not....

I was responding to the pp who said "We have all the drone footage we need" if Hamas need to know, they'll use a drone... that not occurred to you?

Do you not think that in such a densely populated area & with Hamas all over the place, they know where the IDF is? and operating from?

Gloriia · 29/07/2025 16:09

Alexandra2001 · 29/07/2025 16:01

Are you? seems not....

I was responding to the pp who said "We have all the drone footage we need" if Hamas need to know, they'll use a drone... that not occurred to you?

Do you not think that in such a densely populated area & with Hamas all over the place, they know where the IDF is? and operating from?

Edited

We know hamas have limited capability regarding intel.

Of course aerial footage from reporters would give them more info.

It is far more likely that is the reason for media blackouts as opposed to the IDF are scared we'll see more rubble.

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 16:20

@PinkBobby I have posted the article in full since you are interested, but I don't know how someone would get to see the actual BBC email.

A leaked internal email from a BBC executive editor reveals that the Corporation has issued prescriptive instructions to staff on how to cover the humanitarian situation in Gaza. The memo, titled ‘Covering the food crisis in Gaza’, amounts to a top-down editorial diktat that discards impartiality, elevates one side of a deeply contested narrative, and imposes a specific anti-Israel legal-political framing as settled fact. The existence of this email is a telling sign of how the Corporation works to ensure its journalists stick to its own ideological angles.

The email, which was sent to BBC staff on Friday, begins by declaring that ‘the argument over how much aid has crossed into Gaza is irrelevant’ and instructs staff that ‘we should say’ the current distribution system ‘doesn’t work’. It explicitly favours a particular explanation of suffering in Gaza: one that blames the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), a relatively new aid body established with US and Israeli cooperation, while glossing over the role of Hamas, the rulers of Gaza and a proscribed terrorist organisation under British law.

But the quantity of aid entering Gaza is not irrelevant. If Hamas is hijacking, obstructing, or reselling aid, as Israeli and independent reports suggest, and as documented footage and testimony have supported, then the location, handling, and efficacy of aid delivery become vital indicators of where the problem lies. Blaming Israel alone for the humanitarian breakdown while exonerating or ignoring Hamas is not responsible or fair journalism, especially as Israel argues it is going to extreme lengths to try to mitigate the jihadi terrorists’ efforts to persecute and deprive Gazan citizens.

The BBC’s memo labels the GHF system a failure and instructs staff to say so. Yet the evidence is far from conclusive. Hunger and deprivation levels in Gaza remain unclear, with wildly varying estimates depending on source and political posture.

The BBC – which declined to comment on the email – appears content to accept casualty figures and starvation claims from Hamas-linked bodies or sympathetic NGOs as definitive, while dismissing or omitting Israeli data and counterclaims. The email directs staff to reference ‘mounting evidence’ of starvation and deaths around aid centres, yet makes no mention of Hamas operatives looting convoys, obstructing access, or even firing on civilians attempting to collect food – allegations which have been made publicly by Israel and backed at times by video and eyewitness testimony.

Even the photographic evidence used by some UK newspapers has been limited and uncertain: photos clearly taken in the same photo shoot, by one photographer linked to a far from impartial Turkish photo agency, show an emaciated child, but tragic as that is, one child does not indicate a famine. Indeed, it has been speculated by some that the child in question demonstrates visual signs of other pre-existing health conditions which would potentially cause wasting and malnutrition, a possibility backed up by the presence of other healthy and well-fed children appearing alongside him in the same photo set, apparently living in the same family home.

Nor is the GHF model simply an improvised, amateur system as the memo suggests. On the contrary, it is a tightly managed, military-grade distribution network designed to ensure aid reaches civilians directly and safely. Operated by vetted personnel with logistical oversight, GPS tracking, and on-the-ground medical and security staff, the GHF has reported a zero aid diversion rate. By contrast, the UN system the BBC nostalgically defends saw multiple convoys looted at gunpoint, with documented losses reaching 90 per cent in some cases. It is therefore tendentious to assert that the older model ‘did work’ when, in fact, the BBC itself breathlessly reported widespread hunger under that very system well before the GHF system was in place: on 10 February 2024, for example, the BBC’s Lucy Williamson reported that in northern Gaza, ‘children are going without food for days’ and that some residents had resorted to ‘grinding animal feed into flour to survive.’

Most egregious is the email’s declaration that it is ‘indisputable’ that Israel is the occupying power in Gaza and therefore legally responsible for preventing hunger. This claim is presented without qualification, despite the fact that the status of Gaza under international law is disputed. Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005, removing all settlers and military presence. It argues, with some legal backing, that it does not meet the criteria of occupation, since it neither governs Gaza nor maintains a permanent presence. Even under post-October 7 operations, Israel maintains that its actions constitute temporary military engagement, not sovereign control.

International legal opinion may be divided on this. The BBC’s own editorial guidelines insist that politically contested labels such as ‘occupation’ should be attributed and contextualised, not asserted. That rule has been disregarded. The internal memo presumes a singular legal reality, eliding complexity in favour of moral indictment.

The BBC memo mirrors the line taken by BBC presenters, including Nick Robinson, who recently interviewed the Israeli government spokesman David Mencer. It sounded like institutional ventriloquism, from the body which insists it won’t call Hamas terrorists, but has no room for debate over whether Gaza is ‘occupied’.

In asserting the infallibility of its chosen narrative, the BBC omits basic journalistic standards: to interrogate all sides, to distinguish between fact and allegation, and to treat political and legal claims with appropriate scrutiny. Instead, it has opted to police language internally, enforce ideological conformity, and condemn without due diligence.

When the Corporation insists that only one party bears responsibility, and instructs its reporters accordingly, it is no longer informing the public. It is persuading them.

Why is it our national broadcaster seems so desperate to attack the one non-Israeli body which is doing the most to undermine the Hamas stranglehold over Gaza and its people? The closer the GHF and Israeli army get to finally defeating the terrorists, the more shrill the BBC’s insistence that the Jewish state is deliberately starving children. They have trouble believing a self-declared Islamic jihadist dictatorship might have designed this level of suffering and torture, but none in believing the Jewish democratic state did so.

The BBC is publicly funded and legally obligated to remain impartial. This latest leaked email suggests it is failing in that duty. As ever, there is virtually no chance the organisation will admit, redress or be penalised for this failing. They never are.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-leaked-email-that-blows-apart-the-bbcs-impartiality-claims-over-gaza/

PinkBobby · 29/07/2025 17:22

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 16:20

@PinkBobby I have posted the article in full since you are interested, but I don't know how someone would get to see the actual BBC email.

A leaked internal email from a BBC executive editor reveals that the Corporation has issued prescriptive instructions to staff on how to cover the humanitarian situation in Gaza. The memo, titled ‘Covering the food crisis in Gaza’, amounts to a top-down editorial diktat that discards impartiality, elevates one side of a deeply contested narrative, and imposes a specific anti-Israel legal-political framing as settled fact. The existence of this email is a telling sign of how the Corporation works to ensure its journalists stick to its own ideological angles.

The email, which was sent to BBC staff on Friday, begins by declaring that ‘the argument over how much aid has crossed into Gaza is irrelevant’ and instructs staff that ‘we should say’ the current distribution system ‘doesn’t work’. It explicitly favours a particular explanation of suffering in Gaza: one that blames the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), a relatively new aid body established with US and Israeli cooperation, while glossing over the role of Hamas, the rulers of Gaza and a proscribed terrorist organisation under British law.

But the quantity of aid entering Gaza is not irrelevant. If Hamas is hijacking, obstructing, or reselling aid, as Israeli and independent reports suggest, and as documented footage and testimony have supported, then the location, handling, and efficacy of aid delivery become vital indicators of where the problem lies. Blaming Israel alone for the humanitarian breakdown while exonerating or ignoring Hamas is not responsible or fair journalism, especially as Israel argues it is going to extreme lengths to try to mitigate the jihadi terrorists’ efforts to persecute and deprive Gazan citizens.

The BBC’s memo labels the GHF system a failure and instructs staff to say so. Yet the evidence is far from conclusive. Hunger and deprivation levels in Gaza remain unclear, with wildly varying estimates depending on source and political posture.

The BBC – which declined to comment on the email – appears content to accept casualty figures and starvation claims from Hamas-linked bodies or sympathetic NGOs as definitive, while dismissing or omitting Israeli data and counterclaims. The email directs staff to reference ‘mounting evidence’ of starvation and deaths around aid centres, yet makes no mention of Hamas operatives looting convoys, obstructing access, or even firing on civilians attempting to collect food – allegations which have been made publicly by Israel and backed at times by video and eyewitness testimony.

Even the photographic evidence used by some UK newspapers has been limited and uncertain: photos clearly taken in the same photo shoot, by one photographer linked to a far from impartial Turkish photo agency, show an emaciated child, but tragic as that is, one child does not indicate a famine. Indeed, it has been speculated by some that the child in question demonstrates visual signs of other pre-existing health conditions which would potentially cause wasting and malnutrition, a possibility backed up by the presence of other healthy and well-fed children appearing alongside him in the same photo set, apparently living in the same family home.

Nor is the GHF model simply an improvised, amateur system as the memo suggests. On the contrary, it is a tightly managed, military-grade distribution network designed to ensure aid reaches civilians directly and safely. Operated by vetted personnel with logistical oversight, GPS tracking, and on-the-ground medical and security staff, the GHF has reported a zero aid diversion rate. By contrast, the UN system the BBC nostalgically defends saw multiple convoys looted at gunpoint, with documented losses reaching 90 per cent in some cases. It is therefore tendentious to assert that the older model ‘did work’ when, in fact, the BBC itself breathlessly reported widespread hunger under that very system well before the GHF system was in place: on 10 February 2024, for example, the BBC’s Lucy Williamson reported that in northern Gaza, ‘children are going without food for days’ and that some residents had resorted to ‘grinding animal feed into flour to survive.’

Most egregious is the email’s declaration that it is ‘indisputable’ that Israel is the occupying power in Gaza and therefore legally responsible for preventing hunger. This claim is presented without qualification, despite the fact that the status of Gaza under international law is disputed. Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005, removing all settlers and military presence. It argues, with some legal backing, that it does not meet the criteria of occupation, since it neither governs Gaza nor maintains a permanent presence. Even under post-October 7 operations, Israel maintains that its actions constitute temporary military engagement, not sovereign control.

International legal opinion may be divided on this. The BBC’s own editorial guidelines insist that politically contested labels such as ‘occupation’ should be attributed and contextualised, not asserted. That rule has been disregarded. The internal memo presumes a singular legal reality, eliding complexity in favour of moral indictment.

The BBC memo mirrors the line taken by BBC presenters, including Nick Robinson, who recently interviewed the Israeli government spokesman David Mencer. It sounded like institutional ventriloquism, from the body which insists it won’t call Hamas terrorists, but has no room for debate over whether Gaza is ‘occupied’.

In asserting the infallibility of its chosen narrative, the BBC omits basic journalistic standards: to interrogate all sides, to distinguish between fact and allegation, and to treat political and legal claims with appropriate scrutiny. Instead, it has opted to police language internally, enforce ideological conformity, and condemn without due diligence.

When the Corporation insists that only one party bears responsibility, and instructs its reporters accordingly, it is no longer informing the public. It is persuading them.

Why is it our national broadcaster seems so desperate to attack the one non-Israeli body which is doing the most to undermine the Hamas stranglehold over Gaza and its people? The closer the GHF and Israeli army get to finally defeating the terrorists, the more shrill the BBC’s insistence that the Jewish state is deliberately starving children. They have trouble believing a self-declared Islamic jihadist dictatorship might have designed this level of suffering and torture, but none in believing the Jewish democratic state did so.

The BBC is publicly funded and legally obligated to remain impartial. This latest leaked email suggests it is failing in that duty. As ever, there is virtually no chance the organisation will admit, redress or be penalised for this failing. They never are.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-leaked-email-that-blows-apart-the-bbcs-impartiality-claims-over-gaza/

Thank you - an interesting read. Frustrating not to be able to see what the full email says!

PinkBobby · 29/07/2025 17:32

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 15:48

I know that is their argument about not using the word "terrorist" to describe ...well... terrorist groups. But they aren't very critical of Hamas in any way that I have seen. Not calling them terrorists just adds to the general impression that the BBC prefer to think of Hamas as freedom fighters or something, which is not something I agree with.

I have tracked their coverage over time and I do consider them biased. Not the most biased media organisation though, not by a long way. Overall, I still consider them one of the more reputable sources (low bar).

We've gone down a side track - possibly time to get back to the subject of the thread?

Sorry for double posting but trying to catch up on points… so re reporting on Hamas’s role, without any journalists within Gaza, is it not hard to establish what Hamas are doing? I’m not for a moment saying they aren’t doing anything, obviously they are, but I assume the reason they are able to report on Israel’s role is because it’s more visible. There’s more understanding of where Israel are operating, what they have done and in terms of widespread bombing etc. So they come under more scrutiny. And, from what I can tell, it is the widespread bombing that has caused so much harm to civilians so is what a lot of the reports out of Gaza from various sources (NGOs, medics etc) so that then gets reported on. The BBC can’t report on Hamas if they have no real source within Gaza where Hamas operate. If journalists were allowed in, it’s more likely they would see not only what Israel had done but also more on what Hamas were doing and the accurate report would help us understand the full picture.

quick edit to respond to another point - re reporting Hamas as if they were facts, I believe reporting things like “ stats from the Hamas run Ministry of Health’ tells everyone what they need to know about the reliability of the info. We have an idea of the number of people hurt, for example, but understand that is most likely smaller. But again, the images of the impact of widespread bombing and the reports from people who have worked in hospitals or for charities makes it clear that the number is significant and possibly closer to the Hamas total than anyone would like.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 29/07/2025 17:44

@Twiglets1 I blame them for the awful things they did in October 23, but I blame Israel for their utterly excessive and genocidal response

PinkBobby · 29/07/2025 18:10

Voxon · 28/07/2025 23:23

There are many NGOs that are overtly anti Israel. Amnesty. Human Rights Watch. B’Tselem. Addameer.

There are others where they are less overtly but their bias is still observable. Oxfam for example.

Many of these groups are highly active in international legal and media campaigns against Israel.

The EU and even Israel have designated some as linked to terrorism, especially those connected to the PFLP.

NGOs are not always apolitical. They are made up of people, very often left-wing activists who are not politicaly neutral.

That doesn't mean they don't do useful work. Amnesty international for example produces an annual report on human rights abuses in both Israeli and Palestinian territories. I read them cover to cover.

But they only publicise the accusations against israel obsessively, like a mad froth of desperation, and you need to hunt down the report showing the (far, far worse) record on Palestinians themselves.

So you just need to be wary that what you're hearing is often just the bit of the story they want you to hear.

A really good example of how this works in practice is that everyone here knows a lot of information about food shortages in Gaza, but nobody except me knew the UN report on trucks not making it to their destination.

I also doubt anyone knows the UN have refused to deliver aid citing security concerns, and habe said Israel was responsible for ensuring security but then regused to accept that security. Which is essentially the UN creating impossible parameters.

It's not necessarily lying. But it's constant ommission. Constant half-truth. All of it based om trying to demonise Israel.

MSF certainly do great work. But they're not without political bias. They repeatedly used highly charged language in statements about Israel, referring to “Indiscriminate bombing,” “Massacres,” “Targeting civilians,”

That might align with your political views, but not with mine and it's certainly not neutral. Their comms lack context (such as Hamas’ use of human shields or tunnel warfare) and they rarely mention Hamas atrocities or acknowledge Israel’s right to self-defence.

In contrast, MSF has been much more measured in criticism of other conflicts even where those involved are about as bad as it gets - such as Syria, Russia, or Sudan, leading to accusations of selective outrage that i personally agree with.

MSF claims neutrality and humanitarian focus, but it has often issued statements that critics say cross into political advocacy, particularly in conflicts involving Israel and individual staff members have made antisemitic or extremist posts, including praising terrorism, sharing Holocaust inversion tropes and justifying Hamas violence.

Whilst very vocally condemning israel theyve been consistently silent on Hamas’ attacks on 7 October and otherwise, even when those attacks directly led to humanitarian crises MSF was commenting on which to be is astonishing.

This one-sided framing, condemning Israel while not mentioning the actors who initiate the conflict, is a major point of criticism so if people honestly believe their output is neutral that's up to them but I personally see them as highly political and therefore to be taken with due critique.

Re the ICC, or U.N., I agree that they are by no means perfect but do we just accept then that war has no rules, or there shouldn’t be some global attempt to find consensus over issues? I can’t bring myself to say that we should let go of these ideals, even if they aren’t anywhere close to perfectly executed. Surely it’s better than nothing?

Re NGOs that are ‘anti-Israel’, I think these are groups that have tracked Israel treatment of Palestinians over a long period of time and this impact their narrative when it comes to the current conflict. Of course, Hamas escalated the conflict significantly with the horrendous acts on 7/10 but many charities/NGOs have been tracking their interactions for a long time and have been critical of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians for a long time. As an example, in 2010 they reported on Israel’s ‘seperate and unequal’ approach to Palestinians. So whilst I can understand your assumption that they are Just out to get Israel, I think it’s also important to note that their interest in the dynamic between Palestinians and Israel goes back a long time and they may have an anti-Israel stance because as an org that tracks human rights violations and have found Israel guilty.

And again the comparison between human rights in Israel and human rights under Hamas are not the comparison people are looking at in this conflict. Because it goes without saying that Hamas commit atrocities. But the interaction between Palestinians and the Israeli government/military and the potential inequality is a real concern at the moment and is, as has been reported, an on going issue.

“Gaza will be okay when the majority of people in it believe Israel and Jews have a right to be in the middle east and have a right to independence.” I think the same is true for Israel. I think if they accepted the existence of Palestinians in their homes and the right to independence, Gaza would be ‘okay’. But I fear the tactics used by Israel in this war can only inflame the hatred that Hamas will capitalise on. Because, as I’ve said before, if you bomb a lot of civilians, the people left are never going to see you as anything but to blame for deciding to drop the bomb.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 29/07/2025 18:19

PinkBobby · 29/07/2025 18:10

Re the ICC, or U.N., I agree that they are by no means perfect but do we just accept then that war has no rules, or there shouldn’t be some global attempt to find consensus over issues? I can’t bring myself to say that we should let go of these ideals, even if they aren’t anywhere close to perfectly executed. Surely it’s better than nothing?

Re NGOs that are ‘anti-Israel’, I think these are groups that have tracked Israel treatment of Palestinians over a long period of time and this impact their narrative when it comes to the current conflict. Of course, Hamas escalated the conflict significantly with the horrendous acts on 7/10 but many charities/NGOs have been tracking their interactions for a long time and have been critical of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians for a long time. As an example, in 2010 they reported on Israel’s ‘seperate and unequal’ approach to Palestinians. So whilst I can understand your assumption that they are Just out to get Israel, I think it’s also important to note that their interest in the dynamic between Palestinians and Israel goes back a long time and they may have an anti-Israel stance because as an org that tracks human rights violations and have found Israel guilty.

And again the comparison between human rights in Israel and human rights under Hamas are not the comparison people are looking at in this conflict. Because it goes without saying that Hamas commit atrocities. But the interaction between Palestinians and the Israeli government/military and the potential inequality is a real concern at the moment and is, as has been reported, an on going issue.

“Gaza will be okay when the majority of people in it believe Israel and Jews have a right to be in the middle east and have a right to independence.” I think the same is true for Israel. I think if they accepted the existence of Palestinians in their homes and the right to independence, Gaza would be ‘okay’. But I fear the tactics used by Israel in this war can only inflame the hatred that Hamas will capitalise on. Because, as I’ve said before, if you bomb a lot of civilians, the people left are never going to see you as anything but to blame for deciding to drop the bomb.

I’d also like to tag on that Voxon is misrepresenting the UN’s position. UN agencies, including OCHA and WFP, have consistently reported that aid is being obstructed due to Israeli restrictions, dangerous conditions created by ongoing military operations, and targeted attacks on convoys. The idea that the UN “refused” to deliver aid is inaccurate- they have repeatedly called for safe humanitarian access and a ceasefire to allow distribution, which Israel has not guaranteed.

As for the truck claim: the vast majority of delays, according to UN and independent reports, are due to arbitrary inspection delays, rejected items, and a collapse in distribution capacity inside Gaza because of fuel shortages, destroyed infrastructure, and the breakdown of civil order- all consequences of the siege and bombardment.

Citing one part of one UN report and ignoring the rest doesn’t give the full picture.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 29/07/2025 18:32

PinkBobby · 29/07/2025 15:54

I’m catching up on this thread and will reply to various things but I was wondering whether the leaked email is actually available to read in full, @Twiglets1 The Spectator article is behind a paywall so I can’t read the whole thing but you’ve given me an idea of the substance.

I ask because the snippets that have been used in the article are just that - snippets. We don’t know what the original sentence was or the context it was in.

For example: Instead, “we [staff] should say” that the current distribution system “doesn’t work.” If the sentence before this was “we shouldn’t blame Israel or Hamas directly. Instead…”.

Or “the argument over how much aid has crossed into Gaza is irrelevant…”, what is important is that it is clearly not enough.

I am not saying that is definitely the case but I think it is worth bearing in mind that a heavily redacted version of a leaked email can easily be edited to suit a narrative. Especially if the person picking and choosing snippets is keen to undermine the BBC. Seeing the leaked email in full would at least enable us to fully understand the extent of the BBC’s wrongdoing rather than a series of selected phrases.

If the full email is available somewhere, please can someone share?

This is a pattern I’ve noticed. Twiglets also recently misrepresented the UN’s own Monitoring & Reporting document- claiming it stated that “Hamas looted aid trucks,” when the actual wording made no such claim.

It’s easy to cherry-pick snippets or paraphrase in a way that confirms your view.

BelleHathor · 29/07/2025 18:35

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 29/07/2025 18:32

This is a pattern I’ve noticed. Twiglets also recently misrepresented the UN’s own Monitoring & Reporting document- claiming it stated that “Hamas looted aid trucks,” when the actual wording made no such claim.

It’s easy to cherry-pick snippets or paraphrase in a way that confirms your view.

Just to clarify, so you don't get told off, it was Voxon not Twiglets.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 29/07/2025 18:43

Thanks @BelleHathor - my apologies Twiglets.

PinkBobby · 29/07/2025 18:44

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 29/07/2025 18:19

I’d also like to tag on that Voxon is misrepresenting the UN’s position. UN agencies, including OCHA and WFP, have consistently reported that aid is being obstructed due to Israeli restrictions, dangerous conditions created by ongoing military operations, and targeted attacks on convoys. The idea that the UN “refused” to deliver aid is inaccurate- they have repeatedly called for safe humanitarian access and a ceasefire to allow distribution, which Israel has not guaranteed.

As for the truck claim: the vast majority of delays, according to UN and independent reports, are due to arbitrary inspection delays, rejected items, and a collapse in distribution capacity inside Gaza because of fuel shortages, destroyed infrastructure, and the breakdown of civil order- all consequences of the siege and bombardment.

Citing one part of one UN report and ignoring the rest doesn’t give the full picture.

I think if we are going to have a long debate over the validity of a photo of a starving child, we also need to be really clear when we bring our own sources or ‘facts’ to the discussion. I’m not saying you’re being purposely manipulative when you shared that info @Voxon , but as @Wedonttalkaboutboris it is really important to try to share as full a picture as possible so that we don’t cross wires over things and can focus on discussing the broader issue in a constructive manner (as we have done for a lot of this discussion)!

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 18:55

@PinkBobby I think that due to the way Hamas are imbedded in civilian buildings in Gaza, it is too dangerous a place for international journalists to enter & move around freely without military escort. Considering how much criticism Israel gets, I think that there would be a media frenzy if international journalists got killed there. It would be yet more He said/She said situation with different people blaming either Hamas, local gangs or the IDF if a journalist got shot.

However, I do think the Israel government should have allowed more journalists in under military escort, even though that gets criticised too. Lots of people say that Hamas are winning the propaganda war if not the actual war and I think there's truth in that.

Local journalists illustrate the dangers of working there. Media watchdog Reporters Without Borders said in early July that more than 200 journalists had been killed in Gaza since the war began.

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 18:57

BelleHathor · 29/07/2025 18:35

Just to clarify, so you don't get told off, it was Voxon not Twiglets.

Thanks @BelleHathor
Apology accepted @Wedonttalkaboutboris

Voxon · 29/07/2025 18:58

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 29/07/2025 11:45

I said:
Antisemitism must be taken seriously, but that can’t be used to shut down criticism of state violence.

Sharon said:
“Antisemitism must be taken seriously but…”

I then said:
Comments like that really aren’t helping.
Can you hear how it sounds, @SharonEllis ?
‘20,000 children have been killed but…’

No one said Sharon is responsible for those deaths. That’s a bad-faith misread of a very straightforward point: saying ‘[X atrocity]… but’ often ends up sounding like a dismissal, even if that’s not the intent.

And it’s deeply frustrating to keep seeing this pattern- where people sidestep evidence of enormous civilian suffering by invoking ‘bad faith’, ‘Israel bashing’, or antisemitism.

Yes, antisemitism exists and must be taken seriously. That doesn’t mean Israel’s military or policy choices are beyond scrutiny. It’s possible to condemn both Hamas and the mass killing of children. And pretending this is just about Jewish existence ignores the specific and ongoing policies, like siege, starvation, and bombing, that people are rightly criticising.

I stand by what I said:
Antisemitism must be taken seriously, but that can’t be used to shut down criticism of state violence.

Antisemitism must be taken seriously, but that can’t be used to shut down criticism of state violence.

And antisemitism shouldn't be passed off as criticism of the state of Israel. Which it frequently is.

Voxon · 29/07/2025 19:02

sualipa · 29/07/2025 12:38

There’s a simple way to clear this up once and for all: allow international journalists from reputable organisations into Gaza at their own risk so the world can get an objective view of what is actually happening. Israel has said it restricts access to Gaza for security reasons, claiming it cannot guarantee the safety of foreign journalists in an active conflict zone. But if journalists are willing to take that risk, and Israel still refuses, then we must ask whether the real concern is not their safety but what they might report.

The photo of the child with the medical condition was taken by a Turkish journalist. I heard him interviewed, and he described the child as starving, without mentioning any medical issue. He also claimed the child was wearing a bin bag because nappies were too expensive - even though other photos showed the child in a nappy. In other words, he knowingly presented a misleading version of events. Personally, I don’t trust journalists to tell the truth, and I’m genuinely surprised that anyone still does where Israel is concerned.

Voxon · 29/07/2025 19:07

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 29/07/2025 12:51

It’s already the deadliest ever recorded for journalists- 232 killed.

I have seen with my eyes evidence that many of them are militants, or affiliated with terrorists. That has to be taken into account, as I think in the fullness of time we will find out that many of those killed were not neutral members of the press.

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 19:08

@PinkBobby re reporting Hamas as if they were facts, I believe reporting things like “ stats from the Hamas run Ministry of Health’ tells everyone what they need to know about the reliability of the info.

I think media organisations have got better about adding words like "according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry" (BBC wording) but they didn't always do that. I think the BBC got accused of lack of impartiality so started adding that to every report.

But even with that wording, I disagree that tells everyone what they need to know about the reliability of the info.

For me, that wording tells me not to trust the information provided at all as I don't trust Hamas to be truthful about anything. For others it won't suggest anything about the reliability of the information, especially if they are only reading an article casually with no particular knowledge about how Hamas will tell blatant lies including about them not raping women on 7/10.

SomeWomanSomewhere · 29/07/2025 19:11

Voxon · 29/07/2025 19:02

The photo of the child with the medical condition was taken by a Turkish journalist. I heard him interviewed, and he described the child as starving, without mentioning any medical issue. He also claimed the child was wearing a bin bag because nappies were too expensive - even though other photos showed the child in a nappy. In other words, he knowingly presented a misleading version of events. Personally, I don’t trust journalists to tell the truth, and I’m genuinely surprised that anyone still does where Israel is concerned.

It was taken by a local Palestinain photojournalist, Anas Baba, working for NPR.

Voxon · 29/07/2025 19:12

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 14:44

No I'm referring to things like the way the BBC don't refer to Hamas as terrorists & the way they report things Hamas say as if they are a reliable source. Interesting article in the Spectator yesterday (unfortunately behind a paywall)

The leaked email that blows apart the BBC’s impartiality claims over Gaza

A leaked internal email from a BBC executive editor reveals that the Corporation has issued prescriptive instructions to staff on how to cover the humanitarian situation in Gaza. The memo, titled ‘Covering the food crisis in Gaza’, amounts to a top-down editorial diktat that discards impartiality, elevates one side of a deeply contested narrative, and imposes a specific anti-Israel legal-political framing as settled fact. The existence of this email is a telling sign of how the Corporation works to ensure its journalists stick to its own ideological angles.

The email, which was sent to BBC staff on Friday, begins by declaring that ‘the argument over how much aid has crossed into Gaza is irrelevant’ and instructs staff that ‘we should say’ the current distribution system ‘doesn’t work’. It explicitly favours a particular explanation of suffering in Gaza: one that blames the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF).

The BBC – which declined to comment on the email – appears content to accept casualty figures and starvation claims from Hamas-linked bodies or sympathetic NGOs as definitive, while dismissing or omitting Israeli data and counterclaims. The email directs staff to reference ‘mounting evidence’ of starvation and deaths around aid centres, yet makes no mention of Hamas operatives looting convoys, obstructing access, or even firing on civilians attempting to collect food – allegations which have been made publicly by Israel and backed at times by video and eyewitness testimony.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-leaked-email-that-blows-apart-the-bbcs-impartiality-claims-over-gaza/

Wow. Disgusting, but unsurprising.

sualipa · 29/07/2025 19:12

While I admit that one Turkish journalist may not be exemplary I'm not aware of your accustions - do you have a link to that I can investigate ? Because the truth does matter. But extending that judgment to all journalists is a massive leap. The substance of your posts suggests that Israel should be believed above all else that's not journalism, that's propaganda.

Voxon · 29/07/2025 19:17

SomeWomanSomewhere · 29/07/2025 19:11

It was taken by a local Palestinain photojournalist, Anas Baba, working for NPR.

He works for Turkey’s state-run Anadolu Agency, and here is is making his highly misleading report: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/czryry57x4do

Twiglets1 · 29/07/2025 19:21

Voxon · 29/07/2025 19:07

I have seen with my eyes evidence that many of them are militants, or affiliated with terrorists. That has to be taken into account, as I think in the fullness of time we will find out that many of those killed were not neutral members of the press.

There is the issue that some local journalists will be Hamas supporters or even militants themselves. There is also the issue that many local journalists will be too scared to speak out against anything that Hamas will view as being against them. Interesting article from the CPJ (Committee to Protect Journalists) published in May 25. I have posted some of it but there is more to read for those interested (not behind a paywall).

Gaza journalists speak out about Hamas intimidation, threats, assaults

When Gazan journalist Tawfiq Abu Jarad received a phone call from a Hamas security agent warning him not to cover a protest, he readily complied, having been assaulted by Hamas-affiliated forces once before.

The April 27 women’s anti-war demonstration in northern Gaza’s Beit Lahia was small but significant — one of several recent protests criticizing Hamas, which has controlled Gaza with an iron fist since ousting its political rival Fatah in 2007. Designated a terrorist organization by many Western governments, Hamas is known for violently targeting and killing its critics.

“They even told me that I would be responsible if my wife participated in the demonstration,” said Abu Jarad, a 44-year-old correspondent for Ramallah-based privately owned Sawt al-Hurriya radio station. “I have not covered any recent demonstrations,” he concluded, recalling how he was beaten and interrogated for hours by Hamas-affiliated masked assailants in the southern city of Rafah in November 2023, accusing him of “covering events in the Gaza Strip calling for a coup.”

He only secured his freedom with a promise to stop reporting.

Another journalist told The Washington Post they feared covering highly unusual demonstrations in March 2025 would lead Hamas to accuse them of spying for Israel. A third said Hamas’ internal security agents sometimes followed journalists as they reported. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Their fears of reporting on opposition to Hamas seem well-founded. A statement by Palestinian Resistance Factions and Tribes in Gaza, which includes Hamas, condemned the protesters as “collaborators with Israel,” a charge historically used to justify executions. Israeli outlets said that Hamas had killed Palestinians who participated in the March anti-war protests.

In an interview with Reuters news agency, a Palestinian official from a Hamas-allied militant group condemned “suspicious figures” who tried “to exploit legitimate protests to demand an end to the resistance” against Israel’s occupation of Gaza. Armed, masked Hamas militants forcibly dispersed some protesters and assaulted them, according to the BBC.

https://cpj.org/2025/05/gaza-journalists-speak-out-about-hamas-intimidation-threats-assaults/

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