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Conflict in the Middle East

Protest Greek island.

140 replies

PaxAeterna · 23/07/2025 12:20

I initially thought that they have been stopped from entering by the Greek authorities but it seems the ship itself made a call to move on. The protest itself was peaceful with no violence reported.

Have mixed thoughts about this one: I don’t really like people protesting at people who ultimately can’t do anything about the situation. On the other hand making life uncomfortable for Israeli tourists inadvertently puts pressure on the Israeli government.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/22/israeli-cruise-rerouted-after-aegean-islanders-protest-gaza-war

Israeli cruise ship turned away from Greek island by Gaza war protest

Tourists greeted on Syros by banner saying Stop the Genocide and prevented from disembarking

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/22/israeli-cruise-rerouted-after-aegean-islanders-protest-gaza-war

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
PaxAeterna · 25/07/2025 16:41

I don’t know why you are conflating protest with harassment or illegal activities. Or talking about Jewish people when I explicitly said that was wrong. I don’t think British Jews are responsible for what is happening whatsoever.

OP posts:
PeonyPatch · 25/07/2025 16:47

Voxon · 25/07/2025 16:33

@PaxAeterna and @martymcfly24

If you were to find out any person you are "protesting" had killed or starved anyone, then have at it.

However, targeting random Israelis and Jews around the world for “protest” is racist because you’re not holding individuals accountable - you’re attacking people based on ethnicity or nationality.

The crowd doing this are not doing something noble.

They're harassing a 12-year-old kid in a Jewish school, chasing a woman down the street for wearing a Star of David, or vandalising a bagel shop in London.

What exactly does that achieve? You think Netanyahu’s checking Twitter and thinking, “Oh no, someone spray-painted ‘Free Palestine’ on a synagogue in Toronto, better rethink my military strategy”? No - you're just making life hell for some ordinary person who has zero influence over any government.

If you scream at a Chinese person on the street because you don’t like what the CCP is doing, you’re a racist.

If you attack a Muslim because of something done in Pakistan or Iran, you’re an Islamophobe.

And if you corner some random Israelis over what’s happening in Gaza, you’re an antisemite.

It’s not “just protest.” It’s targeted hostility against an ethnic group that’s already been demonised, scapegoated, expelled, and murdered for centuries.

And far from being benign, you are actively causing harm. I have no control over what the Israeli government does. You have none either. But what you do have control over is your own actions.

I've listened to this kind of racist crap for two years now and watched people justify their disgraceful behaviour over and over again. This morning a video is going around of a podcast where a group of young people admired hitler and opined that the Jews should think carefully about what they did to deserve the Holocaust.

The incremental steps of justifying and normalising bigoted behaviour always leads here, and anyone defending it is actively part of it.

There is a war in Gaza right now. People are suffering and dying. That is what happens in wars. Protest the war all you like - just have the moral clarity to do it at the Israeli embassy or outside parliament.

Stay away from synagogues. Leave Jewish kids alone. Stop harassing holiday makers or trying to punish Jews around the world. It isn't hard. We've morally navigated dozens of wars and conflicts in this country without targeting random citizens but where Jews are concerned people's brains seem to switch to lunatic.

I don't buy the performative morality for a minute. I think people who engage in these behaviors are caught up in lust of it all. They weren't embarrassed in the 1930s. They were proud. They felt moral about it and they used identical rationalisation to the ones I'm hearing today.

It makes me thoroughly embarrassed to be British that people still think the rules of morality, equality and justice apply to everyone...except Jews.

Agree that you cannot target random individuals based on their nationality or identity.

mumandmumber · 25/07/2025 16:47

We've morally navigated dozens of wars and conflicts in this country without targeting random citizens but where Jews are concerned people's brains seem to switch to lunatic.

THIS.

Well said @Voxon

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 25/07/2025 16:50

We've morally navigated dozens of wars and conflicts in this country without targeting random citizens but where Jews are concerned people's brains seem to switch to lunatic.

@Voxon that's not accurate at all. Random citizens from other countries have been targeted in the past some even wrongly convicted Birmingham 6, Guildford 4.....you just weren't aware of it obviously

Voxon · 25/07/2025 16:53

PaxAeterna · 25/07/2025 16:41

I don’t know why you are conflating protest with harassment or illegal activities. Or talking about Jewish people when I explicitly said that was wrong. I don’t think British Jews are responsible for what is happening whatsoever.

I am not conflating anything with anything. I'm talking very clearly and very specifically about "protesting" individuals based on their Jewish or Israeli identities.

Being racist unfortunately isn't illegal.

mumandmumber · 25/07/2025 16:56

Leaving these excerpts here for thought, as I just came across them, regarding the antisemitic attack on a jewish teenager eating at a Kosher restaurant in central London, just days ago:

Protest Greek island.
Protest Greek island.
Protest Greek island.
PaxAeterna · 25/07/2025 17:05

What are you talking about?

You gave a whole most of things that are not protest at all?

You’re the only person on the thread who is conflating Jewish people with Israeli policy as well.

OP posts:
quantumbutterfly · 25/07/2025 17:21

Voxon · 25/07/2025 16:33

@PaxAeterna and @martymcfly24

If you were to find out any person you are "protesting" had killed or starved anyone, then have at it.

However, targeting random Israelis and Jews around the world for “protest” is racist because you’re not holding individuals accountable - you’re attacking people based on ethnicity or nationality.

The crowd doing this are not doing something noble.

They're harassing a 12-year-old kid in a Jewish school, chasing a woman down the street for wearing a Star of David, or vandalising a bagel shop in London.

What exactly does that achieve? You think Netanyahu’s checking Twitter and thinking, “Oh no, someone spray-painted ‘Free Palestine’ on a synagogue in Toronto, better rethink my military strategy”? No - you're just making life hell for some ordinary person who has zero influence over any government.

If you scream at a Chinese person on the street because you don’t like what the CCP is doing, you’re a racist.

If you attack a Muslim because of something done in Pakistan or Iran, you’re an Islamophobe.

And if you corner some random Israelis over what’s happening in Gaza, you’re an antisemite.

It’s not “just protest.” It’s targeted hostility against an ethnic group that’s already been demonised, scapegoated, expelled, and murdered for centuries.

And far from being benign, you are actively causing harm. I have no control over what the Israeli government does. You have none either. But what you do have control over is your own actions.

I've listened to this kind of racist crap for two years now and watched people justify their disgraceful behaviour over and over again. This morning a video is going around of a podcast where a group of young people admired hitler and opined that the Jews should think carefully about what they did to deserve the Holocaust.

The incremental steps of justifying and normalising bigoted behaviour always leads here, and anyone defending it is actively part of it.

There is a war in Gaza right now. People are suffering and dying. That is what happens in wars. Protest the war all you like - just have the moral clarity to do it at the Israeli embassy or outside parliament.

Stay away from synagogues. Leave Jewish kids alone. Stop harassing holiday makers or trying to punish Jews around the world. It isn't hard. We've morally navigated dozens of wars and conflicts in this country without targeting random citizens but where Jews are concerned people's brains seem to switch to lunatic.

I don't buy the performative morality for a minute. I think people who engage in these behaviors are caught up in lust of it all. They weren't embarrassed in the 1930s. They were proud. They felt moral about it and they used identical rationalisation to the ones I'm hearing today.

It makes me thoroughly embarrassed to be British that people still think the rules of morality, equality and justice apply to everyone...except Jews.

Perfectly put. Thank you.

I saw that podcast too.

Martymcfly24 · 25/07/2025 17:23

@Voxon Please don't tag me in long diatribes like this . I never mentioned Judaism, only you did and I don't understand what your argument actually is.
Is is that no one should protest against Israeli actions?

Voxon · 25/07/2025 17:26

PaxAeterna · 25/07/2025 17:05

What are you talking about?

You gave a whole most of things that are not protest at all?

You’re the only person on the thread who is conflating Jewish people with Israeli policy as well.

I am, for the third time, talking about targeting Jewish or Israeli people based on their religion, ethnicity, or nationality in any way shape or form. I'm not sure why you're struggling with such a clear statement.

I don't think ANY form of doing so is acceptable.

Voxon · 25/07/2025 17:27

quantumbutterfly · 25/07/2025 17:21

Perfectly put. Thank you.

I saw that podcast too.

It was absolutely disgusting, but this happens in increments doesn't it.

Voxon · 25/07/2025 17:28

Martymcfly24 · 25/07/2025 17:23

@Voxon Please don't tag me in long diatribes like this . I never mentioned Judaism, only you did and I don't understand what your argument actually is.
Is is that no one should protest against Israeli actions?

Edited

Why dont you try reading the post again. The point is crystal clear

LipstickLessons · 25/07/2025 17:32

Voxon · 25/07/2025 17:28

Why dont you try reading the post again. The point is crystal clear

I read it. It didn't make much sense to me either? How is attacking a Muslim because of something that happened in Pakistan anything like protesting? Is that how you protest, is that why you are getting so confused and conflating so many issues with a peaceful protest?

Martymcfly24 · 25/07/2025 17:33

Voxon · 25/07/2025 17:28

Why dont you try reading the post again. The point is crystal clear

Can I ask you to explain this.

And if you corner some random Israelis over what’s happening in Gaza, you’re an antisemite.
But what if the Israelis weren't Jewish how would it be anti semitic?

quantumbutterfly · 25/07/2025 17:42

Voxon · 25/07/2025 17:27

It was absolutely disgusting, but this happens in increments doesn't it.

Like the proverbial frog in hot water.

PaxAeterna · 25/07/2025 17:54

mumandmumber · 25/07/2025 16:56

Leaving these excerpts here for thought, as I just came across them, regarding the antisemitic attack on a jewish teenager eating at a Kosher restaurant in central London, just days ago:

do you honestly think is protest?

It isn’t.

OP posts:
BelleHathor · 25/07/2025 17:56

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 25/07/2025 16:50

We've morally navigated dozens of wars and conflicts in this country without targeting random citizens but where Jews are concerned people's brains seem to switch to lunatic.

@Voxon that's not accurate at all. Random citizens from other countries have been targeted in the past some even wrongly convicted Birmingham 6, Guildford 4.....you just weren't aware of it obviously

Edited

Don't forget Jean Charles de Menezes, murdered by the MET police in 2005 in Stockwell Station.

And all the Muslims targeted after 9/11 or the racially motivated riots (with actual physical violence last year).

quantumbutterfly · 25/07/2025 18:17

BelleHathor · 25/07/2025 17:56

Don't forget Jean Charles de Menezes, murdered by the MET police in 2005 in Stockwell Station.

And all the Muslims targeted after 9/11 or the racially motivated riots (with actual physical violence last year).

I presume you are unaware of the very specific circumstances of Jean Charles tragic death.

In case you were..
7/7/2005 (the day after London euphoria at the olympic bid win) 4 suicide bombers, 52 deaths, 800 injuries.
21/7/2005 4 slightly less competent idiots tried to replicate that, failed, and went on the run.
22/7/2005 JCdM was mistaken for one of these fugitives, a potential suicide bomber and the protocol was to 'neutralise' that possibility. This sort of chaos and horror are what wannabe terrorists aim for. The investigation has been televised to paraphrase an interesting song.

Not really a comparable scenario

btw not just muslims after 9/11, but that's how terrorists like it, distrust & division. Better not to buy what they're selling.

Voxon · 25/07/2025 18:25

LipstickLessons · 25/07/2025 17:32

I read it. It didn't make much sense to me either? How is attacking a Muslim because of something that happened in Pakistan anything like protesting? Is that how you protest, is that why you are getting so confused and conflating so many issues with a peaceful protest?

Why don't you Google, "what does targeting people based on their religion, race, sexuality or nationality mean?" I can't be any more clear than I have been and I expect you understand perfectly.

Martymcfly24 · 25/07/2025 18:39

@Voxon could you answer my question from earlier please?

BelleHathor · 25/07/2025 18:42

quantumbutterfly · 25/07/2025 18:17

I presume you are unaware of the very specific circumstances of Jean Charles tragic death.

In case you were..
7/7/2005 (the day after London euphoria at the olympic bid win) 4 suicide bombers, 52 deaths, 800 injuries.
21/7/2005 4 slightly less competent idiots tried to replicate that, failed, and went on the run.
22/7/2005 JCdM was mistaken for one of these fugitives, a potential suicide bomber and the protocol was to 'neutralise' that possibility. This sort of chaos and horror are what wannabe terrorists aim for. The investigation has been televised to paraphrase an interesting song.

Not really a comparable scenario

btw not just muslims after 9/11, but that's how terrorists like it, distrust & division. Better not to buy what they're selling.

I am acutely aware of the specific circumstances. I lived in the area at the time, all us locals were aware especially with the MET police and their less than stellar record in dealing with minority communities.

Remember that Jean Charles was suspected because of his "Mongolian Eyes" and there was a de facto shoot to kill policy at the time.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/13/jean-charles-de-menezes-death-metropolitan-police-20-year-anniversary-yasmin-khan

A chance encounter threw me into the campaign to expose the police killing of Jean Charles de Menezes. What happened next changed my life

It’s 20 years since the innocent Brazilian man was shot dead at Stockwell station after being mistaken for a terrorist in the aftermath of the 7/7 London bombings. A few days later, I found myself standing beside his friend at a vigil

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/13/jean-charles-de-menezes-death-metropolitan-police-20-year-anniversary-yasmin-khan

Voxon · 25/07/2025 18:59

Martymcfly24 · 25/07/2025 17:33

Can I ask you to explain this.

And if you corner some random Israelis over what’s happening in Gaza, you’re an antisemite.
But what if the Israelis weren't Jewish how would it be anti semitic?

It would still be racist. Bigoted. Harassment. You are targeting a group based on their national identity.

Martymcfly24 · 25/07/2025 19:01

Voxon · 25/07/2025 18:59

It would still be racist. Bigoted. Harassment. You are targeting a group based on their national identity.

That's not what I asked in any way.

Why is it automatically anti semitic to target an Israeli?

quantumbutterfly · 25/07/2025 19:08

BelleHathor · 25/07/2025 18:42

I am acutely aware of the specific circumstances. I lived in the area at the time, all us locals were aware especially with the MET police and their less than stellar record in dealing with minority communities.

Remember that Jean Charles was suspected because of his "Mongolian Eyes" and there was a de facto shoot to kill policy at the time.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/13/jean-charles-de-menezes-death-metropolitan-police-20-year-anniversary-yasmin-khan

I wonder what you would have done differently when confronted with a potential suicide bomber on a tube train that day.

Best not to derail the thread further though eh?

Still not relevant to the thread subject.

Voxon · 25/07/2025 19:08

Martymcfly24 · 25/07/2025 19:01

That's not what I asked in any way.

Why is it automatically anti semitic to target an Israeli?

Does it matter whether it's antisemitic, racist or bigoted? Which of the three do you find acceptable?

If I were, for example, to see a group of Muslims being targeted by a mob, I wouldn't stop to pontificate if it were their religion, race or nationality for which they were being targeted. I'd simply know it was deeply wrong.

Wouldn't you

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