Hamas has formally rejected the latest ceasefire proposal

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8gzm0p1y8o

Not unexpected, but still another blow for the innocent people trapped in this. Hamas signed innocent people up to die when they planned and executed their attack on October 7th, and they're still condemning innocent people to death now. Healthcare and aid services are devastated. Nowhere in Gaza is safe. The innocent people they abducted and took hostage remain captive. Over 50,000 people dead in Palestine and Israel.

As 7/10 happened since 2017 and they recorded themselves joyously killing 'jews' and 'jewish dogs' , maybe not all the hamasniks have read their charter properly.

The PLO were relocated as part of a deal previously (think it was Tunisia). Similar could happen with Hamas, the Gazans don’t want them, there are constant protests, the Israelis won’t tolerate them being there. Best thing to do is see if a third country will host them. Having said that the PLO managed to create a shit hot mess in whichever country they landed so I’m not sure many countries will be keen on the plan.

God bless the Gazans, they have suffered enough, Hamas is busy terrorising and murdering protest organisers at the moment. They need to go.

Article Thirty-One:
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement. It takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions. It does not antagonize anyone of them except if it is antagonized by it or stands in its way to hamper its moves and waste its efforts.
Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that.
It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror. Everyone of them is at variance with his fellow-religionists, not to speak about followers of other religionists. Past and present history are full of examples to prove this fact.
"They will not fight against you in a body, except in fenced towns, or from behind walls. Their strength in war among themselves is great: thou thinkest them to be united; but their hearts are divided. This, because they are people who do not understand." (The Emigration - verse 14).
Islam confers upon everyone his legitimate rights. Islam prevents the incursion on other people's rights. The Zionist Nazi activities against our people will not last for long. "For the state of injustice lasts but one day, while the state of justice lasts till Doomsday."
"As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly." (The Tried - verse 8).
The Attempt to Isolate the Palestinian People:
Article Thirty-Two:
World Zionism, together with imperialistic powers, try through a studied plan and an intelligent strategy to remove one Arab state after another from the circle of struggle against Zionism, in order to have it finally face the Palestinian people only. Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of the struggle, through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. They are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements and to bring them outside the circle of struggle.
The Islamic Resistance Movement calls on Arab and Islamic nations to take up the line of serious and persevering action to prevent the success of this horrendous plan, to warn the people of the danger eminating from leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.
Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither." (The Spoils - verse 16). There is no way out except by concentrating all powers and energies to face this Nazi, vicious Tatar invasion. The alternative is loss of one's country, the dispersion of citizens, the spread of vice on earth and the destruction of religious values. Let every person know that he is responsible before Allah, for "the doer of the slightest good deed is rewarded in like, and the does of the slightest evil deed is also rewarded in like."
The Islamic Resistance Movement consider itself to be the spearhead of the circle of struggle with world Zionism and a step on the road. The Movement adds its efforts to the efforts of all those who are active in the Palestinian arena. Arab and Islamic Peoples should augment by further steps on their part; Islamic groupings all over the Arab world should also do the same, since all of these are the best-equipped for the future role in the fight with the warmongering Jews.
"..and we have put enmity and hatred between them, until the day of resurrection. So often as they shall kindle a fire of war, Allah shall extinguish it; and they shall set their minds to act corruptly in the earth, but Allah loveth not the corrupt doers." (The Table - verse 64).

The 2017 version changed it to Zionists rather than Jews as a whole, whilst still keeping the simmering antisemitism and nonsense conspiracy theories which were more common in the 1300s...and calling for Jihad.

This was widely seen as a move to allow them to be seen as a resistance project and therefore more palatable to the West. It has worked in that you see people being attacked for "Stop Hamas" positions in Western cities. Whilst it is still a terrorist designated organisation.

No one serious about the ME sees Hamas as anything more than a bunch of butchering marauders.

It is all posturing for the audience - how can they determine who is a Zionist and who is not, within the State of Israel which they plan to destroy?

How do you not murder Jews predominantly if destroying a Jewish state? Use of semantics for a totally genocidal organisation.

I'm sure everyone will feel safe knowing they only want the destruction of a state and it's entire population (more than just Israeli-Jews {in their subtle terms, Zionists}, they want to kill all the protected minorities of the state of Israel - Druze, Arab Christians, Arabs etc al - as shown by their Oct 7 rehearsal - Thais, other Arabs...anyone!), an unceasing holy war (jihad), dismissal of anyone else's rights to the holy land and all this mired in typical antisemitism and conspiracy theories.

Here is The Atlantic's take - fwiw
The most relevant of the document’s 36 articles can be summarized as falling within four main themes:

The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),

The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,

The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and

The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62xnqlj11lo

Not sure if hamas intend to remain in power with the latest proposals? They need gone asap

"The Palestinian official familiar with the talks told the BBC that Hamas has signalled its readiness to hand over governance of Gaza to any Palestinian entity agreed upon "at the national and regional level". The official said this could be the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority (PA) or a newly formed administrative body."

This is from the BBC article from today. It seems they do want to give up their current role in leadership. Netanyahu has ruled out any role for the PA.

Mahmoud Abbas has called Hamas "sons of dogs" in a fiery speech in which he demanded the group release the hostages it is still holding, disarm, and hand over control of Gaza in order to end the war with Israel.

The president of the Palestinian Authority told a meeting in the occupied West Bank that Hamas had given Israel "excuses" to continue its attacks on Gaza, and told it to "release the hostages and be done with it".

The remarks were the strongest against the group that the president has delivered since the war began 18 months ago.

A Hamas official condemned what he called Abbas's "derogatory language" towards "a significant proportion... of his own people".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g20pj6epvo

Abbas tells ‘sons of dogs’ Hamas to free hostages, remove Israel’s ‘excuses’ for Gaza war

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday called terror group Hamas “sons of dogs,” and told the terror group to release hostages it is holding in order to eliminate what he said was Israel’s pretext to continue its war in Gaza.

“The first priority is to stop the war of extermination in Gaza. It must be stopped – hundreds are being killed every day,” Abbas said in a speech. “Why don’t you hand over the American hostages?”

Addressing Hamas as “sons of dogs,” the PA president told the terror group to “release those you’re holding and put an end to this story. Shut down their [Israel’s] excuses. End it.”

He further called on Hamas to cede control of Gaza to the PA, give up its arms, and become a political party.

“Hamas must hand over Gaza responsibilities and hand over its arms to the responsibility to Palestinian Authority and transform into a political party,” Abbas said. Hamas has refused calls in recent months by Israel and the United States to lay down its arms.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-tells-sons-of-dogs-hamas-to-free-hostages-remove-israels-excuses-for-gaza-war/

He's right about Hamas releasing hostages but Netanyahu has point blank refused to allow the PA to take power in Gaza so I don't think what he wishes for will happen.

I know Netanyahu has said that but wonder if that is something that can be negotiated... he won't get everything he wants when a deal is eventually done.

True you would hope so.
This article is interesting when I was looking for more information. Seems he was allegedly privately willing to entertain the PA under Biden but when Trump came into power it all changed.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-agree-to-cede-gaza-governance-to-pa-netanyahu-not-going-to-happen/

Sounds like Netanyahu at the time of that article really thought Trump’s plan for Gaza could work. Maybe he will shortly be made to accept that no other world leader endorses that plan apart from him & Trump & it won’t be happening. He will have to accept another solution.

I think so too. Hopefully if that plan was taken off the table there would be more of an air of compromise and a desire for practical next steps.

It does appear to be a more workable solution moving forward that could appease both. It is a positive that Hamas appear to realize they cannot be part of the next generation of politics in the area.

I don’t think the Israeli government cares about international law now.
A lesson in how to win friends and influence people - aka your neighbours in the Middle East, your allies in Europe and the rest of the world beyond right wing friends 😤

Hamas is open to freeing hostages, five-year truce in Gaza, official says

Hamas would accept a deal to end the Gaza war that would involve the release of all Israeli hostages and a five-year truce, an official from the Palestinian group said on Saturday. A Hamas delegation was scheduled to meet mediators in Cairo later the same day.

"Hamas is ready for an exchange of prisoners in a single batch and a truce for five years," the official told AFP on condition of anonymity, as a delegation from his group was set to meet mediators in Cairo later in the day.
On April 17, Hamas, which opposes a "partial" ceasefire agreement, rejected an Israeli proposal that included a 45-day truce in exchange for the return of 10 living hostages.
The group has consistently demanded that a truce agreement must lead to the end of the war, a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, a prisoner exchange, and the immediate and sufficient entry of humanitarian aid into the war-battered Palestinian territory.
Israel, for its part, demands the return of all hostages and the disarmament of Hamas and other armed groups in Gaza – the latter being a "red line" for the Islamist movement.
The war was triggered by Hamas's unprecedented attack on Israel on October 7, 2023, which resulted in the death of 1,218 people on the Israeli side, mostly civilians, according to an AFP count based on official figures.
Of the 251 people taken hostage that day, 58 are still being held in Gaza, including 34 who are dead, according to the Israeli army.

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20250426-hamas-is-open-to-freeing-hostages-five-year-truce-in-gaza-official-says

@Twiglets1
I am not a supporter of Hamas but are their demands entirely reasonable?
”The group has consistently demanded that a truce agreement must lead to the end of the war, a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, a prisoner exchange, and the immediate and sufficient entry of humanitarian aid into the war-battered Palestinian territory.”

Even the IDF military leaders have said there is no further military advantage in the IDF continuing to bomb Gaza? Given this, why won’t Netanyahu stop the war so the hostages can be released?

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/07/yoav-gallant-israel-army-nothing-left-to-do-in-gaza

Netanyahu has stated Hamas have to be destroyed before Israel can agree to a ceasefire which seems reasonable to me @Polka83

Even a long truce doesn’t seem enough if Hamas are committed to eradicating Jews again in future when they are strong enough.

You can’t kill an ideology. Hence the IDF military leads stating no more fighting appropriate nor necessary?

Sorry I don’t understand your second sentence?

Read the link I sent earlier about IDF military leaders including Gallant saying no further military advantage in bombing Gaza.

Regardless of that opinion, the question remains - why should Israel agree to a permanent ceasefire until Hamas agree to surrender or are destroyed?

They are winning the war that Hamas started so are not realistically likely to agree to a temporary ceasefire even of 5 years knowing that Hamas will just attack them again in future.

That says a lot about your humanity - or lack of. There are innocent people being killed for no military advantage to Israel- including potentially Israeli hostages.

I suppose you also think the blockade of food to Gaza is entirely appropriate.

As I said before - you can’t kill an ideology.

What I think is there should be a temporary truce of say 45 days as Israel proposed to allow humanitarian aid in while more talks go ahead. But Hamas rejected that proposal as per this thread title.

"They are winning the war" wrote @Twiglets1

It all depends on how you want to describe the word winning.

And even if you could persuade me it is winning the war, it is certainly failing in its long term campaign, which should be " The way Israel can peaceably coexist with its neighbours"

I believe that resentment for Israel is now higher than its ever been. No-one, apart from war hungry neocons can be happy with its behaviour. It has lost so much sympathy around the world. Especially in parts of the middle east and as such Israel's current actions will make future resolution far more difficult.

It needs a radical reform of its approach to the Palestinian/Israeli issues.

This "war" isn't working. Try something else.