Is it right to use Holocaust Memorial Day commemoration to make points about the situation in Gaza?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8jvkk05no

Well, there is not that many Jews to be antisemitic towards. So physical attacks are rare. But its very uncomfortable when you go and vote in an election and realise there is not a single person you are happy to vote for because none of them seem to care about Jews.

The jewish community spends a lot on security. The demography of Ireland means we have a lot less of the type of people who might perform physical antisemitic attacks. (eg in france a lot of it is from unhappy descendants of immigrants) I only know of one such attack on a Jewish person here. Lots of children are unhappy in school, some kids have moved schools. (teens can be horrible anyway, can you imagine being the only Jewish kid in the class?)

I know, why is he allowed to do this?? I thought he is not supposed to be too political?

very similar to this years.

https://president.ie/en/media-library/speeches/speech-at-national-holocaust-memorial-day-commemoration-2024

I know, why is he allowed to do this?

Because he's popular with the Irish public no politician is going to risk the wrath. He's tolerated.

I did not say Israel has no right to exist. It has as much right to exist as any other nation I suppose. I don’t think it has a ‘right’ to exist on any religious basis, I don’t believe any nation does. Borders and territories have been fought over and redrawn since the beginning of civilisation. In hindsight do I think that Israel should have been created after WW2 on Palestinian land? No. Do I think the nakba and actions which followed and continue to happen, especially in the West Bank, to clear the area of Palestinians was and is shameful? Yes. Is it the only time land has been colonised in a shameful way? No. If we judge a countries right to exist on how it was formed then and how it treated the native people then many countries couldn’t continue to exist. Israel has as much ‘right’ as Australia or America or countless other countries. Britain has hardly got a past free from shame. I don’t believe Arab nations are free from blame. It wouldn’t be right to drive Israel out of existence now, what is done is done. That doesn’t mean I don’t think Palestine has a right to exist, but clearly now a two state solution would be necessary and it can’t be expected that either side should give up their wish for a homeland.

I do believe Israel would not have been created were it not for WW2, although I am aware of the history in the area and why Jewish people believe they have a right to the land. I don’t believe borders should be drawn up based on religious texts, I don’t believe religion has a political place in the modern world. I’m aware of course that it does, probably more so in the Middle East than any other area of the world, but I don’t believe a religious ‘right’ to the area was a reasonable argument for the creation of Israel in modern times and I stand by my feeling that if it were not for European guilt over the holocaust it would not have happened. I don’t believe Jews have a right to that land, I don’t believe Muslims (or Christians for that matter) do either. I do believe the people who were born there had a right to that land, in 1945 I believe that meant it should have belonged to the Palestinians but I also recognise that now generations of Israelis have also been born there and that therefore the situation is far more complex. I believe native Israel’s have as much right to live on that land now as Palestinians do, do I think Jews who emigrate from other countries have a ‘right’ to live there based on religion alone? Not really, in an idealistic world all the non-natives would leave and the genuinely Israeli and Palestinian people would live in harmony but I recognise that will never happen as too many Palestinians are deeply anti-Semitic and too many Israelis view all Palestinians as terrorists and ‘human animals.’ I recognise the situation is deeply complex and I don’t believe there will ever be peace between Israel and Palestine, I imagine at some point, whether in 10 or 50 or 100 or more years there will be a massive escalation in the conflict and one or both nations will be wiped out. Land and religious borders are constantly changing over the centuries and it would be naive to think this is anything more than a snapshot in time in terms of where borders lie. Realistically at some point in the future neither country will exist, and so how could either have a ‘right’ to existence?

Im not sure what you mean asking why I think Israel is the only country limiting peace in the Middle East, can I ask where I stated that? I don’t think the Middle East would necessarilly be any more peaceful without Israel, it’s impossible to know what would have happened without the creation of Israel. Maybe things would have been better, maybe they would have been worse. I’m also not sure why you think I thought the Middle East conflict didn’t exist before WW2? I’m well aware that it did and that the reason Europe was able to give the Jewish people parts of Palestine to create Israel was because the British were already in Palestine but I still stand by my feeling that without the guilt of the Holocaust it would not have been given to the Jewish people; the Balfour declaration was signed in 1917 in which case why did it take until 1948? Of course whether I’m right or wrong we will never know.

I disagree on your last point that the Palestinian people are to blame for their own suffering, of course they have contributed to the situation and are not blameless but I do think it was
short-sighted to think people could be forcibly removed from their land and live under occupation and not fight back. The fact it is a Jewish homeland has no doubt been part of it but some of the resistance would no doubt have occurred had the land been given as a Christian homeland or a Kurdish one, you can’t just drive people out of their homes and settle new people there and expect them to just shrug their shoulders and accept it. Nearly half of Palestinians are children so i don’t think they have brought it on themselves and of course I would advocate for peace for them. That doesn’t mean I don’t think Israelis deserve peace either, it must be terrifying to live in Israel right now though knowing that the occupied people are fighting back and will think nothing of killing you to do so. I don’t think anybody should have to live with that fear. Do I think that excuses the number of civilian casualties in Gaza and the lack of humanitarian aid and the numerous war crimes committed in the name of Israel? Absolutely not. Does that mean I think the actions of Hamas and the other terrorist groups in Gaza are okay? Of course not. It is possible to see the wrong on both sides, it is possible to empathise with both sides, clearly the situation is not black and white, there are no absolutes and so I don’t know why you are twisting my words into absolute statements like Israel has no right to exist or that I have not questioned the actions of any Arab countries. You have read so far between the lines that you are seeing things that are simply not there to suit your own ideas of how anybody who is not 100% pro-Israel must feel. It is actually possible to look at the conflict without thinking in absolutes or supporting one side only.

I can understand the school issue there are no Jewish specific Schools and being a minority among teens is hard. My children are in educate together with a few Jewish children and I know their religious festivals are celebrated and observed.

Why?

He is very left wing, the Irish seem perfectly happy to vote in centrist parties, election after election.

His speeches are not clear at all, he uses lots of difficult language. His accent sounds like a bbc presenter from the 1950s.

Also, he is coming to the end of his term.

yes, educate together is very popular among Jewish people. There is also one Jewish ethos school in South Dublin.

Yes I know it, that's where my old neighbours went. I lived close to the synagogue in terenure only realised recently it's been moved.

Of course it is, Anti Irish sentiment has always been rife on these threads

There is limits on what he can do. There is very limited restriction on what he can say.

He's annoyed the government pointing fingers at them for the housing crisis and criticising aspects of their foreign policy.

Not nearly as much as antisemitism/anti Zionism. And when I used to visit Dublin DD would tell me not to speak loudly as obv English people weren't liked by some Irish people!
People gonna hate ...

Yes they are. One particular MN more than others.

Just as much unfortunately, but as you say people gonna hate..

the synagogue is still there but sadly there are plans to move it. :(

Well, got to agree with MDH on the housing crises.

But isn't the President supposed to be like the Royal Family? Not get into politics?

he used to be much less outspoken, people are saying its because he is coming to the end of his term.

This is absolute rubbish.

It overlooks the fact that Irish Jews ARE Irish and that many Irish people ( rightly ) feel Higgins was wrong to speak as he did at a Holocaust Memorial service.

If you're not Irish you don't get a say in that

But apparently you’re allowed a say in what is or is antisemitism in Ireland?

If non-Americans get to say that Trump is an idiot (which the whole world generally does) then non-Irish people get to say that Higgins was inappropriate and antisemitic.

We don't have a vote, but we do have an opinion.

He is very left wing, the Irish seem perfectly happy to vote in centrist parties, election after election.

Yes an interesting point. He's an idealist really. A man who follows his own star and says what he thinks is right no matter who he's put out along the way. He's been a politician a long time and he's always spoke out for equality, social justice, against racism and many different human rights issues. I guess people like that,

And maybe , unfortunately, because the Irish Jews are too small a minority to offer any electoral advantage . So their views don’t matter.

It’s particularly shocking that this should have happened on a Holocaust Memorial Day . It’s as though Higgins just saw this day as a political opportunity.

*Well, got to agree with MDH on the housing crises.

But isn't the President supposed to be like the Royal Family? Not get into politics?

he used to be much less outspoken, people are saying its because he is coming to the end of his term.*

Like I said there is few restrictions on what he can say. He has a right to share his opinion and share them he does.

He's always been incredibly outspoken- (since 1968!) he's was a wee bit quieter during the last term maybe.

Now if I was organising an event for the holocaust and I didn't want anyone to mention Gaza, the very last person I'd invite to speak would be Higgins. He obviously has some supporters in Holocaust education Ireland.

“A man who follows his own star and says what he thinks is right no matter who he's put out along the way” like Trump in that respect then.

He’s entitled to his views but Holocaust Memorial Day is not about him or his views and it’s arrogant of him to ignore the requests of Irish Jews.
Irish Jews do not live in Israel, did not vote for Netanyahu and do not need to be lectured about Gaza on the ONE day they come together to remember the six million Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust.
How dare Higgins turn that sad day into a political opportunity for himself.

Absolutely, and why some on this thread keep pushing back I just don't understand.