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Conflict in the Middle East
Thread gallery
140
ScrollingLeaves · 18/12/2024 23:25

It looks as though they aim to do to central Gaza what they did to the North. When they’ve finished they’ll begin again no doubt with another section.

Haaretz:

The IDF called on residents in four zones of the Al-Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza to evacuate to a designated humanitarian zone, stating that terror groups have launched rockets from the area in the past, and that the IDF "will soon begin activities" there.

EasterIssland · 18/12/2024 23:31

ScrollingLeaves · 18/12/2024 23:25

It looks as though they aim to do to central Gaza what they did to the North. When they’ve finished they’ll begin again no doubt with another section.

Haaretz:

The IDF called on residents in four zones of the Al-Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza to evacuate to a designated humanitarian zone, stating that terror groups have launched rockets from the area in the past, and that the IDF "will soon begin activities" there.

So when IDF left the area claiming that they had destroyed Hamas , they hadn’t really destroyed it. Every time IDF leaves an area hamas is back. Either they’re useless at their job or they’re targeting the incorrect people.

ScrollingLeaves · 18/12/2024 23:38

I wonder what “launched rockets in the past” means? It could mean a year ago. Basically they want to cleanse it of Palestinians by telling them to get out and killing them, raze the area to the ground, and take it over.

EasterIssland · 19/12/2024 13:33

AI last week or the one before posted a report claiming Israel is committing genocide
MSF has today released a report claiming Israel is ethnic cleansing
HRW has posted a report claiming Israel is committing genocide by preventing access to water.

i believe there are threads for each single one of them if someone wants to read them.

ScrollingLeaves · 19/12/2024 20:30

Haaretz ( without photos or links)
Dec 18
'No Civilians. Everyone's a Terrorist': IDF Soldiers Expose Arbitrary Killings and Rampant Lawlessness in Gaza's Netzarim Corridor
'Of 200 bodies, only 10 were confirmed as Hamas members': IDF soldiers who served in Gaza tell Haaretz that anyone who crosses an imaginary line in the contested Neztarim corridor is shot to death, with every Palestinian casualty counting as a terrorist – even if they were just a child

The line appears on no map and exists in no official military order. While senior Israel Defense Forces officials might deny its existence, in the heart of the Gaza Strip, north of the Netzarim corridor, nothing is more real.

"The forces in the field call it 'the line of dead bodies'" a commander in Division 252 tells Haaretz. "After shootings, bodies are not collected, attracting packs of dogs who come to eat them. In Gaza, people know that wherever you see these dogs, that's where you must not go."

The Netzarim corridor, a seven-kilometer-wide strip of land, stretches from near Kibbutz Be’eri Kibbutz Be'eri to the Mediterranean coast. The IDF has emptied this area of Palestinian residents and demolished their homes to construct military roads and military positions.

While Palestinians are officially prohibited from entering, the reality is more severe than a simple exclusion zone. "It's military whitewashing," explains a senior officer in Division 252, who has served three reserve rotations in Gaza. "The division commander designated this area as a 'kill zone.' Anyone who enters is shot."

A recently discharged Division 252 officer describes the arbitrary nature of this boundary: "For the division, the kill zone extends as far as a sniper can see." But the issue goes beyond geography. "We're killing civilians there who are then counted as terrorists," he says. "The IDF spokesperson's announcements about casualty numbers have turned this into a competition between units. If Division 99 kills 150 [people], the next unit aims for 200."

These accounts of indiscriminate killing and the routine classification of civilian casualties as terrorists emerged repeatedly in Haaretz's conversations with recent Gaza veterans.

"Calling ourselves the world's most moral army absolves soldiers who know exactly what we're doing," says a senior reserve commander who has recently returned from the Netzarim corridor. "It means ignoring that for over a year, we've operated in a lawless space where human life holds no value. Yes, we commanders and combatants are participating in the atrocity unfolding in Gaza. Now everyone must face this reality."

While this officer doesn't regret mobilizing after October 7 October 7 ("we went into a just war"), he insists the Israeli public deserves the full picture. "People need to know what this war really looks like, what serious acts some commanders and fighters are committing inside Gaza. They need to know the inhuman scenes we're witnessing."
Haaretz has gathered testimonies from active-duty soldiers, career officers, and reservists that reveal the unprecedented authority given to commanders. As the IDF operates across multiple fronts, division commanders have received expanded powers. Previously, bombing buildings or launching airstrikes required approval from the IDF chief of staff. Now, such decisions can be made by lower-ranking officers.

“Division commanders now have almost unlimited firepower authority in combat zones," explains a veteran officer in Division 252. "A battalion commander can order drone strikes, and a division commander can launch conquest operations." Some sources describe IDF units operating like independent militias, unrestricted by standard military protocols.

'We took him to the cage'
The chaotic reality has repeatedly forced commanders and fighters to face severe moral dilemmas. "The order was clear: 'Anyone crossing the bridge into the [Netzarim] corridor gets a bullet in the head,'" recalls a veteran fighter from Division 252.

"One time, guards spotted someone approaching from the south. We responded as if it was a large militant raid. We took positions and just opened fire. I'm talking about dozens of bullets, maybe more. For about a minute or two, we just kept shooting at the body. People around me were shooting and laughing."

But the incident didn't end there. "We approached the blood-covered body, photographed it, and took the phone. He was just a boy, maybe 16." An intelligence officer collected the items, and hours later, the fighters learned the boy wasn't a Hamas operative – but just a civilian.

“That evening, our battalion commander congratulated us for killing a terrorist, saying he hoped we'd kill ten more tomorrow," the fighter adds. "When someone pointed out he was unarmed and looked like a civilian, everyone shouted him down. The commander said: 'Anyone crossing the line is a terrorist, no exceptions, no civilians. Everyone's a terrorist.' This deeply troubled me – did I leave my home to sleep in a mouse-infested building for this? To shoot unarmed people?"

Similar incidents continue to surface. An officer in Division 252's command recalls when the IDF spokesperson announced their forces had killed over 200 militants. "Standard procedure requires photographing bodies and collecting details when possible, then sending evidence to intelligence to verify militant status or at least confirm they were killed by the IDF," he explains. "Of those 200 casualties, only ten were confirmed as known Hamas operatives. Yet no one questioned the public announcement about killing hundreds of militants."

Another fighter describes witnessing four unarmed people walking normally, spotted by a surveillance drone. Despite clearly not appearing as militants, a tank advanced and opened fire with its machine gun. "Hundreds of bullets," he recalls. Three died immediately ("the sight haunts me," he says), while the fourth survived and raised his hands in surrender.

"We put him in a cage set up near our position, stripped off his clothes, and left him there," the soldier recounts. "Soldiers passing by spat on him. It was disgusting. Finally, a military interrogator came, questioned him briefly while holding a gun to his head, then ordered his release." The man had simply been trying to reach his uncles in northern Gaza "Later, officers praised us for killing 'terrorists.' I couldn't understand what they meant," the fighter says.

After a day or two, the bodies were buried by a bulldozer in the sand. "I don't know if anyone remembers they're there. People don't understand – this doesn't just kill Arabs, it kills us too. If called back to Gaza, I don't think I'll go."

In another incident, observation posts spotted two people walking toward Wadi Gaza, an area designated as restricted. A drone revealed they were carrying a white flag and walking with raised hands. The deputy battalion commander ordered troops to shoot to kill. When one commander protested, pointing out the white flag and suggesting they might be hostages, he was overruled. "I don't know what a white flag is, shoot to kill," the deputy commander, a reservist from Brigade 5, insisted. The two people eventually turned back south, but the protesting commander was berated as a coward.

These invisible boundaries north and south of the corridor appear frequently in testimonies. Even soldiers manning ambush positions say they weren't always clear where these lines were drawn. "Anyone approaching whatever line was decided at that moment is considered a threat – no permission needed to shoot."

This approach isn't limited to Division 252. A Division 99 reservist describes watching a drone feed showing "an adult with two children crossing the forbidden line." They were walking unarmed, seemingly searching for something. "We had them under complete surveillance with the drone and weapons aimed at them – they couldn't do anything," he says. "Suddenly we heard a massive explosion. A combat helicopter had fired a missile at them. Who thinks it's legitimate to fire a missile at children? And with a helicopter? This is pure evil."

Most commanders interviewed say the air force initially acted as a restraining force, especially regarding drone strikes. They would refuse attacks on unconfirmed targets, populated areas, and humanitarian shelters. However, this caution eroded over time. "The air force barely questions anything anymore; their safety mechanisms have collapsed too," one commander states.

Division 252 found ways around air force oversight using a "magic word" – the "flash procedure," an officer familiar with operations explains. Designed for forces under fire or evacuating casualties, it guarantees an airstrike within 30 minutes with no approvals needed. Any officer from battalion commander up could invoke it. "When targeting requests were denied for various reasons, Brigadier General Yehuda Vach would tell us to use the 'flash procedure,'" the officer says.

Wild West on Steroids
Vach, 45, born in the West Bank the West Bank settlement of Kiryat Arba, rose through elite military units before commanding the IDF's Officers Training School. Promoted to brigadier general last summer, he took charge of Division 252. His first address to commanders at a corridor outpost revealed much.

Unit
"His worldview and political positions were clearly driving his operational decisions," a veteran officer present recalls. Another officer described him as a "small Napoleon" unsuited for division command: "The role requires judgment ... we knew immediately he lacked it, but didn't realize how badly."

Days later, Vach declared "there are no innocents in Gaza," according to one officer. While such sentiment isn't uncommon among soldiers, with Vach "it wasn't just opinion – it became operational doctrine: everyone's a terrorist." He told his commanders that "in the Middle East, victory comes through conquering territory. We must keep conquering until we win."

Under Vach, the Wild West atmosphere intensified. The "kill zone" boundary shifted constantly – "500 meters here today, 500 meters there tomorrow," says one fighter. While other units also broke rules, officers say Vach went further.

One of the concepts he introduced was declaring anyone entering the kill zone a terrorist conducting reconnaissance. "Every woman is a scout, or a man in disguise," an officer explains. "Vach even decided anyone on a bicycle could be killed, claiming cyclists were terrorists' collaborators."

His private initiative to forcibly move northern Gaza’s population south lacked official authorization. "We searched for operational orders but found nothing," a command officer says. "They eventually stopped him."

After reports of Hamas leader YahyaSinwar’s death, Vach shared disturbing fantasies during a command briefing about mutilating and desecrating the body. "How they should have stripped him, placed him in the city square, cut up the corpse and wash it in sewage water. He tried to explain how to cut and dismember the body," an officer recalls. "This wasn't a joke – this was a formal assessment meeting. His commanders stood shocked silent,"

Division staff repeatedly sought intervention from Southern Command chief Major General Yaron Finkelman over Vach's conduct, but Vach seemed to disregard even Finkelman's authority.

In early November, Vach's division left the corridor, replaced by Division 99. Before their final rotation ended, officers demanded explanations for his unauthorized "kill line" and other actions. "This is unprecedented – conducting war with everyone doing whatever they want in their sector. Operations launched without proper orders or procedures, just because Vach decided," an officer present says.

Vach obsessed over a "an image of victory" – not Israel's, but his own. He believed emptying northern Gaza of Palestinians emptying northern Gaza of Palestinianswould be his triumph. "We didn't meet the goal," he admitted in December. His attempt to drive out 250,000 residents clinging to their homes largely failed, with only hundreds crossing south.

He told officers that Palestinians must lose their land to learn from Hamas’ Oct 7 massacre. "First he talked about expelling everyone south, thinking he'd implement the Generals' Plan the Generals’ Plan alone," a commander recalls. When that proved impossible, he sought alternatives. None materialized.

In March, Vach is set to return with Division 252 to the Netzarim corridor.

Toomanywars · 20/12/2024 05:02

ScrollingLeaves · 19/12/2024 20:30

Haaretz ( without photos or links)
Dec 18
'No Civilians. Everyone's a Terrorist': IDF Soldiers Expose Arbitrary Killings and Rampant Lawlessness in Gaza's Netzarim Corridor
'Of 200 bodies, only 10 were confirmed as Hamas members': IDF soldiers who served in Gaza tell Haaretz that anyone who crosses an imaginary line in the contested Neztarim corridor is shot to death, with every Palestinian casualty counting as a terrorist – even if they were just a child

The line appears on no map and exists in no official military order. While senior Israel Defense Forces officials might deny its existence, in the heart of the Gaza Strip, north of the Netzarim corridor, nothing is more real.

"The forces in the field call it 'the line of dead bodies'" a commander in Division 252 tells Haaretz. "After shootings, bodies are not collected, attracting packs of dogs who come to eat them. In Gaza, people know that wherever you see these dogs, that's where you must not go."

The Netzarim corridor, a seven-kilometer-wide strip of land, stretches from near Kibbutz Be’eri Kibbutz Be'eri to the Mediterranean coast. The IDF has emptied this area of Palestinian residents and demolished their homes to construct military roads and military positions.

While Palestinians are officially prohibited from entering, the reality is more severe than a simple exclusion zone. "It's military whitewashing," explains a senior officer in Division 252, who has served three reserve rotations in Gaza. "The division commander designated this area as a 'kill zone.' Anyone who enters is shot."

A recently discharged Division 252 officer describes the arbitrary nature of this boundary: "For the division, the kill zone extends as far as a sniper can see." But the issue goes beyond geography. "We're killing civilians there who are then counted as terrorists," he says. "The IDF spokesperson's announcements about casualty numbers have turned this into a competition between units. If Division 99 kills 150 [people], the next unit aims for 200."

These accounts of indiscriminate killing and the routine classification of civilian casualties as terrorists emerged repeatedly in Haaretz's conversations with recent Gaza veterans.

"Calling ourselves the world's most moral army absolves soldiers who know exactly what we're doing," says a senior reserve commander who has recently returned from the Netzarim corridor. "It means ignoring that for over a year, we've operated in a lawless space where human life holds no value. Yes, we commanders and combatants are participating in the atrocity unfolding in Gaza. Now everyone must face this reality."

While this officer doesn't regret mobilizing after October 7 October 7 ("we went into a just war"), he insists the Israeli public deserves the full picture. "People need to know what this war really looks like, what serious acts some commanders and fighters are committing inside Gaza. They need to know the inhuman scenes we're witnessing."
Haaretz has gathered testimonies from active-duty soldiers, career officers, and reservists that reveal the unprecedented authority given to commanders. As the IDF operates across multiple fronts, division commanders have received expanded powers. Previously, bombing buildings or launching airstrikes required approval from the IDF chief of staff. Now, such decisions can be made by lower-ranking officers.

“Division commanders now have almost unlimited firepower authority in combat zones," explains a veteran officer in Division 252. "A battalion commander can order drone strikes, and a division commander can launch conquest operations." Some sources describe IDF units operating like independent militias, unrestricted by standard military protocols.

'We took him to the cage'
The chaotic reality has repeatedly forced commanders and fighters to face severe moral dilemmas. "The order was clear: 'Anyone crossing the bridge into the [Netzarim] corridor gets a bullet in the head,'" recalls a veteran fighter from Division 252.

"One time, guards spotted someone approaching from the south. We responded as if it was a large militant raid. We took positions and just opened fire. I'm talking about dozens of bullets, maybe more. For about a minute or two, we just kept shooting at the body. People around me were shooting and laughing."

But the incident didn't end there. "We approached the blood-covered body, photographed it, and took the phone. He was just a boy, maybe 16." An intelligence officer collected the items, and hours later, the fighters learned the boy wasn't a Hamas operative – but just a civilian.

“That evening, our battalion commander congratulated us for killing a terrorist, saying he hoped we'd kill ten more tomorrow," the fighter adds. "When someone pointed out he was unarmed and looked like a civilian, everyone shouted him down. The commander said: 'Anyone crossing the line is a terrorist, no exceptions, no civilians. Everyone's a terrorist.' This deeply troubled me – did I leave my home to sleep in a mouse-infested building for this? To shoot unarmed people?"

Similar incidents continue to surface. An officer in Division 252's command recalls when the IDF spokesperson announced their forces had killed over 200 militants. "Standard procedure requires photographing bodies and collecting details when possible, then sending evidence to intelligence to verify militant status or at least confirm they were killed by the IDF," he explains. "Of those 200 casualties, only ten were confirmed as known Hamas operatives. Yet no one questioned the public announcement about killing hundreds of militants."

Another fighter describes witnessing four unarmed people walking normally, spotted by a surveillance drone. Despite clearly not appearing as militants, a tank advanced and opened fire with its machine gun. "Hundreds of bullets," he recalls. Three died immediately ("the sight haunts me," he says), while the fourth survived and raised his hands in surrender.

"We put him in a cage set up near our position, stripped off his clothes, and left him there," the soldier recounts. "Soldiers passing by spat on him. It was disgusting. Finally, a military interrogator came, questioned him briefly while holding a gun to his head, then ordered his release." The man had simply been trying to reach his uncles in northern Gaza "Later, officers praised us for killing 'terrorists.' I couldn't understand what they meant," the fighter says.

After a day or two, the bodies were buried by a bulldozer in the sand. "I don't know if anyone remembers they're there. People don't understand – this doesn't just kill Arabs, it kills us too. If called back to Gaza, I don't think I'll go."

In another incident, observation posts spotted two people walking toward Wadi Gaza, an area designated as restricted. A drone revealed they were carrying a white flag and walking with raised hands. The deputy battalion commander ordered troops to shoot to kill. When one commander protested, pointing out the white flag and suggesting they might be hostages, he was overruled. "I don't know what a white flag is, shoot to kill," the deputy commander, a reservist from Brigade 5, insisted. The two people eventually turned back south, but the protesting commander was berated as a coward.

These invisible boundaries north and south of the corridor appear frequently in testimonies. Even soldiers manning ambush positions say they weren't always clear where these lines were drawn. "Anyone approaching whatever line was decided at that moment is considered a threat – no permission needed to shoot."

This approach isn't limited to Division 252. A Division 99 reservist describes watching a drone feed showing "an adult with two children crossing the forbidden line." They were walking unarmed, seemingly searching for something. "We had them under complete surveillance with the drone and weapons aimed at them – they couldn't do anything," he says. "Suddenly we heard a massive explosion. A combat helicopter had fired a missile at them. Who thinks it's legitimate to fire a missile at children? And with a helicopter? This is pure evil."

Most commanders interviewed say the air force initially acted as a restraining force, especially regarding drone strikes. They would refuse attacks on unconfirmed targets, populated areas, and humanitarian shelters. However, this caution eroded over time. "The air force barely questions anything anymore; their safety mechanisms have collapsed too," one commander states.

Division 252 found ways around air force oversight using a "magic word" – the "flash procedure," an officer familiar with operations explains. Designed for forces under fire or evacuating casualties, it guarantees an airstrike within 30 minutes with no approvals needed. Any officer from battalion commander up could invoke it. "When targeting requests were denied for various reasons, Brigadier General Yehuda Vach would tell us to use the 'flash procedure,'" the officer says.

Wild West on Steroids
Vach, 45, born in the West Bank the West Bank settlement of Kiryat Arba, rose through elite military units before commanding the IDF's Officers Training School. Promoted to brigadier general last summer, he took charge of Division 252. His first address to commanders at a corridor outpost revealed much.

Unit
"His worldview and political positions were clearly driving his operational decisions," a veteran officer present recalls. Another officer described him as a "small Napoleon" unsuited for division command: "The role requires judgment ... we knew immediately he lacked it, but didn't realize how badly."

Days later, Vach declared "there are no innocents in Gaza," according to one officer. While such sentiment isn't uncommon among soldiers, with Vach "it wasn't just opinion – it became operational doctrine: everyone's a terrorist." He told his commanders that "in the Middle East, victory comes through conquering territory. We must keep conquering until we win."

Under Vach, the Wild West atmosphere intensified. The "kill zone" boundary shifted constantly – "500 meters here today, 500 meters there tomorrow," says one fighter. While other units also broke rules, officers say Vach went further.

One of the concepts he introduced was declaring anyone entering the kill zone a terrorist conducting reconnaissance. "Every woman is a scout, or a man in disguise," an officer explains. "Vach even decided anyone on a bicycle could be killed, claiming cyclists were terrorists' collaborators."

His private initiative to forcibly move northern Gaza’s population south lacked official authorization. "We searched for operational orders but found nothing," a command officer says. "They eventually stopped him."

After reports of Hamas leader YahyaSinwar’s death, Vach shared disturbing fantasies during a command briefing about mutilating and desecrating the body. "How they should have stripped him, placed him in the city square, cut up the corpse and wash it in sewage water. He tried to explain how to cut and dismember the body," an officer recalls. "This wasn't a joke – this was a formal assessment meeting. His commanders stood shocked silent,"

Division staff repeatedly sought intervention from Southern Command chief Major General Yaron Finkelman over Vach's conduct, but Vach seemed to disregard even Finkelman's authority.

In early November, Vach's division left the corridor, replaced by Division 99. Before their final rotation ended, officers demanded explanations for his unauthorized "kill line" and other actions. "This is unprecedented – conducting war with everyone doing whatever they want in their sector. Operations launched without proper orders or procedures, just because Vach decided," an officer present says.

Vach obsessed over a "an image of victory" – not Israel's, but his own. He believed emptying northern Gaza of Palestinians emptying northern Gaza of Palestinianswould be his triumph. "We didn't meet the goal," he admitted in December. His attempt to drive out 250,000 residents clinging to their homes largely failed, with only hundreds crossing south.

He told officers that Palestinians must lose their land to learn from Hamas’ Oct 7 massacre. "First he talked about expelling everyone south, thinking he'd implement the Generals' Plan the Generals’ Plan alone," a commander recalls. When that proved impossible, he sought alternatives. None materialized.

In March, Vach is set to return with Division 252 to the Netzarim corridor.

Some of the soldiers have obviously stopped seeing people and just everyone's the enemy.

This ceasefire is urgently needed

Dulra · 20/12/2024 08:05

Sounds like the Hunger Games disgusting. If there was ever any doubt that Israel do not want Palestine to exist, they are the people that have a real existential threat

Lettherebejustice · 20/12/2024 13:30

There needs to be justice for all the Palestinians murdered in cold blood by a supposed democratic country with a supposed moral army. Kill zone?? Kill anything in sight

Wtf?

Another fighter describes witnessing four unarmed people walking normally, spotted by a surveillance drone. Despite clearly not appearing as militants, a tank advanced and opened fire with its machine gun. "Hundreds of bullets," he recalls. Three died immediately ("the sight haunts me," he says), while the fourth survived and raised his hands in surrender.
"We put him in a cage set up near our position, stripped off his clothes, and left him there," the soldier recounts. "Soldiers passing by spat on him. It was disgusting. Finally, a military interrogator came, questioned him briefly while holding a gun to his head, then ordered his release."

Lettherebejustice · 20/12/2024 13:32

Anyone who still supports the IDF should read the haaretz article posted above. I felt physically sick reading that. May all those murderers never see a day of peace in their miserable lives. May their sick crimes haunt them till their last breath.

Auvergne63 · 20/12/2024 15:46

Lettherebejustice · 20/12/2024 13:32

Anyone who still supports the IDF should read the haaretz article posted above. I felt physically sick reading that. May all those murderers never see a day of peace in their miserable lives. May their sick crimes haunt them till their last breath.

When this utter madness stops, Israel will have a huge problem with the Israeli soldiers returning to civilian life. PTSD will be rife, which will affect their families, friends, work and the wider society.
They will pay the price.

ScrollingLeaves · 20/12/2024 19:09

Haaretz

WEST BANK: Israeli settlers vandalized and torched a mosque in the village of Madra overnight into Friday, Palestinian reports said. Video footage from the scene showed the burned mosque with the Hebrew word for "revenge" and Star of David symbols written on its walls and floor. A verse from Psalms that read "The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance; he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked" was also spray-painted on one of the mosque's walls.

  • The Israel Police and the Shin Bet said that an investigation into the incident has been launched, and that they will "act decisively to ensure that those responsible are held accountable."
  • Abdallah Kamil, the governor of the district in which Madra is located, said that the graffiti is racist and offensive "to Islam and Arabs," and that it "reflects the terrorist mindset" of those responsible. He added that the attack "wouldn't have occurred without the constant protection that settlers receive from the Israeli army, which allows them to enter villages, spray racist graffiti and vandalize the property."

Israeli settlers set West Bank mosque on fire, spray-paint anti-Arab statements

***

https://haaretz.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=d3bceadb340d6af4daf1de00d&id=fe2270dd6d&e=4dc3839227

ScrollingLeaves · 20/12/2024 19:12

Haaretz:

Netanyahu canceled his court appearance Tuesday to visit the Syrian side of Mount Hermon. He stated that Israel will stay put in Syrian territory – which he called a 'very important place' – for now. That's already more open-ended than the words of Defense Minister Israel Katz last Friday, who said that IDF forces should prepare to stay for the winter. It still seems shocking that Israel would actually conquer or occupy new sovereign territory of other countries for the first time since the invasion of Lebanon 42 years ago. But there's no better way to make Israel's designs on Gaza look less shocking – mass expulsion and near-total destruction of the north, settlers camped out by the borders in anticipation of the spoils are now yesterday's news" – Dahlia Scheindlin

Is Israel really building an empire across the Middle East?

***

https://haaretz.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=d3bceadb340d6af4daf1de00d&id=bc324e8883&e=4dc3839227

Toomanywars · 21/12/2024 08:11

Auvergne63 · 20/12/2024 15:46

When this utter madness stops, Israel will have a huge problem with the Israeli soldiers returning to civilian life. PTSD will be rife, which will affect their families, friends, work and the wider society.
They will pay the price.

No one wins, mentally, after a war.

Auvergne63 · 21/12/2024 09:31

Daftasabroom · 21/12/2024 09:14

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-825955

I believe this has been posted before, but it's on topic.

Thank you for this article. When I wrote my post, I spoke from experience. My father was conscripted during the Algerian War of Independence. He came back, suffering with PDSD which made his life hell and that of his family.
It also appears that Israel is already suffering a mental health crisis.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/no-one-left-behind-urgent-need-for-mental-health-action-in-israel/

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2024 11:20

Daftasabroom · 21/12/2024 09:14

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-825955

I believe this has been posted before, but it's on topic.

Thank you very much. I read that before but it needs reading again and again.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2024 11:25

Auvergne63 · 21/12/2024 09:31

Thank you for this article. When I wrote my post, I spoke from experience. My father was conscripted during the Algerian War of Independence. He came back, suffering with PDSD which made his life hell and that of his family.
It also appears that Israel is already suffering a mental health crisis.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/no-one-left-behind-urgent-need-for-mental-health-action-in-israel/

Thank you. Somehow I am surprised that Israel has poor systems for mental health. I somehow thought they might have particular excellence and expertise in this field of study. (This is not sarcasm, but thinking of the traditions of Jewish academic brilliance, Freud, helping people from the holocaust.)

PeasfullPerson · 21/12/2024 12:11

ScrollingLeaves · 19/12/2024 20:30

Haaretz ( without photos or links)
Dec 18
'No Civilians. Everyone's a Terrorist': IDF Soldiers Expose Arbitrary Killings and Rampant Lawlessness in Gaza's Netzarim Corridor
'Of 200 bodies, only 10 were confirmed as Hamas members': IDF soldiers who served in Gaza tell Haaretz that anyone who crosses an imaginary line in the contested Neztarim corridor is shot to death, with every Palestinian casualty counting as a terrorist – even if they were just a child

The line appears on no map and exists in no official military order. While senior Israel Defense Forces officials might deny its existence, in the heart of the Gaza Strip, north of the Netzarim corridor, nothing is more real.

"The forces in the field call it 'the line of dead bodies'" a commander in Division 252 tells Haaretz. "After shootings, bodies are not collected, attracting packs of dogs who come to eat them. In Gaza, people know that wherever you see these dogs, that's where you must not go."

The Netzarim corridor, a seven-kilometer-wide strip of land, stretches from near Kibbutz Be’eri Kibbutz Be'eri to the Mediterranean coast. The IDF has emptied this area of Palestinian residents and demolished their homes to construct military roads and military positions.

While Palestinians are officially prohibited from entering, the reality is more severe than a simple exclusion zone. "It's military whitewashing," explains a senior officer in Division 252, who has served three reserve rotations in Gaza. "The division commander designated this area as a 'kill zone.' Anyone who enters is shot."

A recently discharged Division 252 officer describes the arbitrary nature of this boundary: "For the division, the kill zone extends as far as a sniper can see." But the issue goes beyond geography. "We're killing civilians there who are then counted as terrorists," he says. "The IDF spokesperson's announcements about casualty numbers have turned this into a competition between units. If Division 99 kills 150 [people], the next unit aims for 200."

These accounts of indiscriminate killing and the routine classification of civilian casualties as terrorists emerged repeatedly in Haaretz's conversations with recent Gaza veterans.

"Calling ourselves the world's most moral army absolves soldiers who know exactly what we're doing," says a senior reserve commander who has recently returned from the Netzarim corridor. "It means ignoring that for over a year, we've operated in a lawless space where human life holds no value. Yes, we commanders and combatants are participating in the atrocity unfolding in Gaza. Now everyone must face this reality."

While this officer doesn't regret mobilizing after October 7 October 7 ("we went into a just war"), he insists the Israeli public deserves the full picture. "People need to know what this war really looks like, what serious acts some commanders and fighters are committing inside Gaza. They need to know the inhuman scenes we're witnessing."
Haaretz has gathered testimonies from active-duty soldiers, career officers, and reservists that reveal the unprecedented authority given to commanders. As the IDF operates across multiple fronts, division commanders have received expanded powers. Previously, bombing buildings or launching airstrikes required approval from the IDF chief of staff. Now, such decisions can be made by lower-ranking officers.

“Division commanders now have almost unlimited firepower authority in combat zones," explains a veteran officer in Division 252. "A battalion commander can order drone strikes, and a division commander can launch conquest operations." Some sources describe IDF units operating like independent militias, unrestricted by standard military protocols.

'We took him to the cage'
The chaotic reality has repeatedly forced commanders and fighters to face severe moral dilemmas. "The order was clear: 'Anyone crossing the bridge into the [Netzarim] corridor gets a bullet in the head,'" recalls a veteran fighter from Division 252.

"One time, guards spotted someone approaching from the south. We responded as if it was a large militant raid. We took positions and just opened fire. I'm talking about dozens of bullets, maybe more. For about a minute or two, we just kept shooting at the body. People around me were shooting and laughing."

But the incident didn't end there. "We approached the blood-covered body, photographed it, and took the phone. He was just a boy, maybe 16." An intelligence officer collected the items, and hours later, the fighters learned the boy wasn't a Hamas operative – but just a civilian.

“That evening, our battalion commander congratulated us for killing a terrorist, saying he hoped we'd kill ten more tomorrow," the fighter adds. "When someone pointed out he was unarmed and looked like a civilian, everyone shouted him down. The commander said: 'Anyone crossing the line is a terrorist, no exceptions, no civilians. Everyone's a terrorist.' This deeply troubled me – did I leave my home to sleep in a mouse-infested building for this? To shoot unarmed people?"

Similar incidents continue to surface. An officer in Division 252's command recalls when the IDF spokesperson announced their forces had killed over 200 militants. "Standard procedure requires photographing bodies and collecting details when possible, then sending evidence to intelligence to verify militant status or at least confirm they were killed by the IDF," he explains. "Of those 200 casualties, only ten were confirmed as known Hamas operatives. Yet no one questioned the public announcement about killing hundreds of militants."

Another fighter describes witnessing four unarmed people walking normally, spotted by a surveillance drone. Despite clearly not appearing as militants, a tank advanced and opened fire with its machine gun. "Hundreds of bullets," he recalls. Three died immediately ("the sight haunts me," he says), while the fourth survived and raised his hands in surrender.

"We put him in a cage set up near our position, stripped off his clothes, and left him there," the soldier recounts. "Soldiers passing by spat on him. It was disgusting. Finally, a military interrogator came, questioned him briefly while holding a gun to his head, then ordered his release." The man had simply been trying to reach his uncles in northern Gaza "Later, officers praised us for killing 'terrorists.' I couldn't understand what they meant," the fighter says.

After a day or two, the bodies were buried by a bulldozer in the sand. "I don't know if anyone remembers they're there. People don't understand – this doesn't just kill Arabs, it kills us too. If called back to Gaza, I don't think I'll go."

In another incident, observation posts spotted two people walking toward Wadi Gaza, an area designated as restricted. A drone revealed they were carrying a white flag and walking with raised hands. The deputy battalion commander ordered troops to shoot to kill. When one commander protested, pointing out the white flag and suggesting they might be hostages, he was overruled. "I don't know what a white flag is, shoot to kill," the deputy commander, a reservist from Brigade 5, insisted. The two people eventually turned back south, but the protesting commander was berated as a coward.

These invisible boundaries north and south of the corridor appear frequently in testimonies. Even soldiers manning ambush positions say they weren't always clear where these lines were drawn. "Anyone approaching whatever line was decided at that moment is considered a threat – no permission needed to shoot."

This approach isn't limited to Division 252. A Division 99 reservist describes watching a drone feed showing "an adult with two children crossing the forbidden line." They were walking unarmed, seemingly searching for something. "We had them under complete surveillance with the drone and weapons aimed at them – they couldn't do anything," he says. "Suddenly we heard a massive explosion. A combat helicopter had fired a missile at them. Who thinks it's legitimate to fire a missile at children? And with a helicopter? This is pure evil."

Most commanders interviewed say the air force initially acted as a restraining force, especially regarding drone strikes. They would refuse attacks on unconfirmed targets, populated areas, and humanitarian shelters. However, this caution eroded over time. "The air force barely questions anything anymore; their safety mechanisms have collapsed too," one commander states.

Division 252 found ways around air force oversight using a "magic word" – the "flash procedure," an officer familiar with operations explains. Designed for forces under fire or evacuating casualties, it guarantees an airstrike within 30 minutes with no approvals needed. Any officer from battalion commander up could invoke it. "When targeting requests were denied for various reasons, Brigadier General Yehuda Vach would tell us to use the 'flash procedure,'" the officer says.

Wild West on Steroids
Vach, 45, born in the West Bank the West Bank settlement of Kiryat Arba, rose through elite military units before commanding the IDF's Officers Training School. Promoted to brigadier general last summer, he took charge of Division 252. His first address to commanders at a corridor outpost revealed much.

Unit
"His worldview and political positions were clearly driving his operational decisions," a veteran officer present recalls. Another officer described him as a "small Napoleon" unsuited for division command: "The role requires judgment ... we knew immediately he lacked it, but didn't realize how badly."

Days later, Vach declared "there are no innocents in Gaza," according to one officer. While such sentiment isn't uncommon among soldiers, with Vach "it wasn't just opinion – it became operational doctrine: everyone's a terrorist." He told his commanders that "in the Middle East, victory comes through conquering territory. We must keep conquering until we win."

Under Vach, the Wild West atmosphere intensified. The "kill zone" boundary shifted constantly – "500 meters here today, 500 meters there tomorrow," says one fighter. While other units also broke rules, officers say Vach went further.

One of the concepts he introduced was declaring anyone entering the kill zone a terrorist conducting reconnaissance. "Every woman is a scout, or a man in disguise," an officer explains. "Vach even decided anyone on a bicycle could be killed, claiming cyclists were terrorists' collaborators."

His private initiative to forcibly move northern Gaza’s population south lacked official authorization. "We searched for operational orders but found nothing," a command officer says. "They eventually stopped him."

After reports of Hamas leader YahyaSinwar’s death, Vach shared disturbing fantasies during a command briefing about mutilating and desecrating the body. "How they should have stripped him, placed him in the city square, cut up the corpse and wash it in sewage water. He tried to explain how to cut and dismember the body," an officer recalls. "This wasn't a joke – this was a formal assessment meeting. His commanders stood shocked silent,"

Division staff repeatedly sought intervention from Southern Command chief Major General Yaron Finkelman over Vach's conduct, but Vach seemed to disregard even Finkelman's authority.

In early November, Vach's division left the corridor, replaced by Division 99. Before their final rotation ended, officers demanded explanations for his unauthorized "kill line" and other actions. "This is unprecedented – conducting war with everyone doing whatever they want in their sector. Operations launched without proper orders or procedures, just because Vach decided," an officer present says.

Vach obsessed over a "an image of victory" – not Israel's, but his own. He believed emptying northern Gaza of Palestinians emptying northern Gaza of Palestinianswould be his triumph. "We didn't meet the goal," he admitted in December. His attempt to drive out 250,000 residents clinging to their homes largely failed, with only hundreds crossing south.

He told officers that Palestinians must lose their land to learn from Hamas’ Oct 7 massacre. "First he talked about expelling everyone south, thinking he'd implement the Generals' Plan the Generals’ Plan alone," a commander recalls. When that proved impossible, he sought alternatives. None materialized.

In March, Vach is set to return with Division 252 to the Netzarim corridor.

Thank you for sharing this disturbing read, which is simply more evidence of what most people already know. And thank you to Haaretz for continuing to write about what is happening, despite the risks to themselves.

PeasfullPerson · 21/12/2024 12:14

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2024 11:25

Thank you. Somehow I am surprised that Israel has poor systems for mental health. I somehow thought they might have particular excellence and expertise in this field of study. (This is not sarcasm, but thinking of the traditions of Jewish academic brilliance, Freud, helping people from the holocaust.)

Maybe they are worried that if people actually stopped to examine their thoughts they would realise what they are doing.

PeasfullPerson · 21/12/2024 12:15

They might start to question the narrative they are fed from even before they begin conscription.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2024 20:14

PeasfullPerson · 21/12/2024 12:15

They might start to question the narrative they are fed from even before they begin conscription.

Yes, perhaps. It is strange.

MothToAnInferno · 22/12/2024 00:19

ScrollingLeaves · 20/12/2024 19:12

Haaretz:

Netanyahu canceled his court appearance Tuesday to visit the Syrian side of Mount Hermon. He stated that Israel will stay put in Syrian territory – which he called a 'very important place' – for now. That's already more open-ended than the words of Defense Minister Israel Katz last Friday, who said that IDF forces should prepare to stay for the winter. It still seems shocking that Israel would actually conquer or occupy new sovereign territory of other countries for the first time since the invasion of Lebanon 42 years ago. But there's no better way to make Israel's designs on Gaza look less shocking – mass expulsion and near-total destruction of the north, settlers camped out by the borders in anticipation of the spoils are now yesterday's news" – Dahlia Scheindlin

I was reading a Syrian message board last night and I found the views of Syrians on this really interesting. About half were along the lines of we are really scared of Israel, if we resist them they will turn us into Gaza, we just need to sit back and let them do what they want we have had enough of war. The other half were we have no capacity to fight them now but their day will come for what they have chosen to do to us at this vulnerable time.

Either way is really sad and doesn't look hopeful for fruitful relations between the two in the future.

10UsernamesNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 22/12/2024 01:54

Lettherebejustice · 20/12/2024 13:32

Anyone who still supports the IDF should read the haaretz article posted above. I felt physically sick reading that. May all those murderers never see a day of peace in their miserable lives. May their sick crimes haunt them till their last breath.

They should also read the CNN article about how the IDF soldiers (I would rather call them terrorists) routinely run Palestinians, both already dead or still alive, over with tanks and bulldozers. 🤢🤬 The article still tries to make us sympathetic to these murderers, though. 🤢

BelleHathor · 22/12/2024 07:58

10UsernamesNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 22/12/2024 01:54

They should also read the CNN article about how the IDF soldiers (I would rather call them terrorists) routinely run Palestinians, both already dead or still alive, over with tanks and bulldozers. 🤢🤬 The article still tries to make us sympathetic to these murderers, though. 🤢

I remember that article , basically "I ran these people over with my tank, and now I can't sleep".
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/21/middleeast/gaza-war-israeli-soldiers-ptsd-suicide-intl/index.html
CNN as per usual playing their role as the propaganda arm of the empire.

Reminds me of that meme regarding American wars:
"America will bomb your country until there's nothing left, then come back 20 years later and make a movie about how sad their soldiers got from doing it."

‘He got out of Gaza, but Gaza did not get out of him’: Israeli soldiers returning from war struggle with trauma and suicide | CNN

For many soldiers, the war against Hamas in Gaza is a fight for Israel’s survival and must be won by any means. But the battle is also taking a mental toll that, due to stigma, is largely hidden from view.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/21/middleeast/gaza-war-israeli-soldiers-ptsd-suicide-intl/index.html

10UsernamesNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 22/12/2024 09:54

BelleHathor · 22/12/2024 07:58

I remember that article , basically "I ran these people over with my tank, and now I can't sleep".
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/21/middleeast/gaza-war-israeli-soldiers-ptsd-suicide-intl/index.html
CNN as per usual playing their role as the propaganda arm of the empire.

Reminds me of that meme regarding American wars:
"America will bomb your country until there's nothing left, then come back 20 years later and make a movie about how sad their soldiers got from doing it."

That's the one. "I ran these people over with my tank, and now I can't sleep" sums it up perfectly. I still can't believe that the authors expect us to feel sorry for them.

That meme is accurate. It makes me wonder what kind of movies, if any, would be made in 20 years about what's happening in Gaza right now. Hopefully they won't portray what's happening in Gaza as positive.