Support for Palestine at Glastonbury

[Finallyloggedin]

Daman Albarn

https://x.com/damonunofficial/status/1806744107181642172?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

I'm not sure what your trying to suggest? I haven't seen that stat and would query it and its legitimacy anyway, but why would that stat mean I could not feel sympathy for innocent Palestinians? Why are you unable to acknowledge their suffering yet openly criticise others who you feel have not acknowledged the trauma of the Israelis caught up in the terrorist attack on Oct 7th? You sound like a hypocrite to me

@Shutupaboutthesun It seems that you are essentially arguing the logic as the Palestinians can't have a state, because they can use it as a base to attack Israel. But what is the alternative? One simply can not indefinitely deprive millions of people of their autonomy and freedom and subject them to foreign control indefinitely. Palestinians may feel that the fact Israelis can have a state means they have a base to attack Palestinian locations, which does happen. So the logic of denying people a state because they may attack you is rather one sided. I also wonder if, after the second intifada, Israel could have stopped all travel between Israel and the West Bank. This would have kept Israelis safe from terrorists entering and provided some security. It seems Israel has good intelligence and defence systems, and is much wealthier than the West Bank, so it seems likely they could pick up on any planned attack by air. I don't see any winners with the current attitudes. I think there are politicians on both sides who would support a peaceful solution, but there must be a recognition of the common humanity between the different peoples. There has to be an end to violence as a solution. It isn't, and only leads to suffering, death, and deep trauma.

Interesting that some of the posters who are so upset that Albarn didn't mention the hostages are the same posters who were outraged when posters mentioned the 274 (that was the figure reported at the time anyway) people who were killed during the rescue of 4 hostages on a thread a few weeks ago.

Some animals are more equal than others it seems.

So it would seem.

I’d like to see as well those stadistics that say 80% of the Palestinians want to kill the Jews.
this is one of the latest statistics

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-support-for-hamas-on-the-rise-among-palestinians-now-double-fatahs/amp/

support for Hamas in the Palestinian territories stood at 40% (It was around half before 7-10)

Armed struggle is considered by a little over half of Palestinians (54%) to be the preferred option to end Israeli rule and establish a Palestinian state, while only a quarter chose negotiations, and 16% opted for “nonviolent resistance.”
The survey, which sampled 1,570 adults divided almost equally between the West Bank and Gaza,

——

can’t understand how 80% want the Jews to be killed when not even 50% of the Palestinian population supports Hamas and other groups.

its interesting how numbers are thrown to justify what Israel is doing against Palestinians , but the numbers don’t align with the reality. As I said again , some people will minimise , deny or justify the killing of innocent civilians. And they’ll get outraged when not everyone agrees with them. Artists have been speaking up against Israels actions and war crimes for a while now, Glastonbury wasn’t going to be any different

@keenforhelp

"The Palestinian governing body started this conflict."

If you can't see that the conflict started before 7/10, I don't know what to say to you.

If you're content with Palestinians living under a 70+ year blockade and apartheid, their homes bulldozed and their lands stolen, and in 2023 alone 502 shot by the IDF, many of them children, I don't know what to say to you.

Keep dreaming that this started on 7/10.

Maybe you think the troubles started on Bloody Sunday.

Or apartheid South Africa started when Mandela was imprisoned.

I can’t speak for @keenforhelp but I think she is talking about the current war.

I am so tired of being told ‘this didn’t start on 7 Oct’. WE ALL KNOW THAT. But the current war did start then. There was a ceasefire til Hamas broke it!

You are still presenting a very one-sided view of the pre-7/10 conflict, despite @Shutupaboutthesun putting some much needed balance into the conversation.

@AhNowTed some people choose not to see injustice when it's inconvenient to their preferred view of the world.

The thing is that for many of us there was not a ceasefire. A ceasefire is one where nobody dies. And before 7-10 there were people killed in Palestine, in fact 2023 before 7-10 was the year where Israel killed more people in Palestine.

Coldplay bringing out Elyana says it all 💓 amazing support for falastine.
Thanks cold play 💓

There have been some lovely messages of support for Palestine and Palestinians at festivals. It has been nice to see the positive support, the recognition of the right of Palestinians to exist, and the calls for a peaceful way forward.

The very ones who are aghast that "no one mentions 7/10" in the context of Glastonbury, seemingly couldn't give a shit about the genocide in Gaza, and the lived experience of Palestinians in the WB.

I can't understand people whose hearts are so closed off that they can't feel compassion for innocent people being bombed, shot and terrorised.

The sad thing is, support for violence against Israel and/or for Hamas is probably a lot higher now among the Palestinians. You don’t exactly endear yourself to people when you kill their family and friends, flatten their neighbourhoods, leave them surrounded by people missing an arm or a leg and starve them.

I think Netanyahu's strategy with the settlements in the West Bank was to prevent the emergence of any viable Palestinian state there. And the reason he wanted to prevent such a state was because he considered it would pose an intolerable security threat to Israel. Of course there is a fanatical minority of religious Jews who want to claim the West Bank because it's the heart of biblical Judea, but I don't think that was Netanyahu's motivation (he isn't religious). His strategy was purely pragmatic: build a whole lot of Jewish settlements there and the Palestinians will not have a base from which to attack. The West Bank is on high ground overlooking most major Israeli cities, so I can understand the logic, even while i agree that it creates a very unfair situation for the Palestinians

@Shutupaboutthesun There was an interview with Daniella Weiss, who confirmed that she had talks with Netanyahu and the MO was to strategically dot the settlements to geographically prevent the possibility of a two state solution. Absolutely nothing to do with security, it was because in her words the land of Judea and Samaria belongs to the jews and that they want it all, and will take it by force if the Palestinians don't give it.

I am horrified by what’s happening in Gaza. The scale of the horror is difficult to comprehend.
Remembering the victims from both sides in public contexts like a festival helps to prevent our society becoming polarised and demonising one group. I agree with condemnation of Israeli actions in Gaza. I just want people to show compassion for the victims on both sides.

It would be reckless to establish a Palestinian state now given the extreme levels of radicalisation that exist in Palestinian society and the close ties that Palestinian terror groups have with Iran. I agree that leaving millions of people in stateless limbo is unacceptable, but establishing an Iranian-proxy terror state on Israel's longest border would be a terrible outcome for the region. Aside from the risk to Israel, it would likely destabilise Jordan and lead to the takeover of that country by another Iranian proxy army, as has happened in Lebanon.

The best solution IMO would be Israel annexing the largest Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the rest of it becoming part of a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation, with Palestinian political representation (parties that espouse violence are proscribed) but Jordanian oversight of security. Jordan was the occupying power there between 1948-1967, and the majority of its population is Palestinian (Jordan used to be part of Mandatory Palestine). This new confederation would need to protect the rights of any Jews that chose to remain, just as Israel protects the rights of its Arab minority. There would also need to be a commitment to overhauling the education system, which currently teaches Jew hatred and martyrdom to Palestinian children. It's a moot point though, because the Jordanian government would rather set their hair on fire than get involved in this quagmire.

Failing that, I think steps to creating a path to a Palestinian state in the future, with careful oversight of all institutions by other countries (Saudis, UAE, US) is probably the only way forward. You cannot have a WB state develop the way Gaza did, with a terrorist group getting elected to govern, and then proceeding to spend all its energies on building a tunnel network under the entire civilian population so as to turn them into human shields for its terror activities.

@poshsnobtwit It’s true that the West Bank is strategically important though. I’m not justifying settler violence, it’s not justifiable imo, but there is more to it than religious fundamentalism.

So what important, strategical reason is there that would allow Israel to (illegally) take over the West Bank?

I can understand where you are coming from and I agree there would need to be a transition period but I also think that if Palestine was a nation state with self determination, control over its own clearly defined protected borders, control over imports/ exports, freedom to travel and everything else that comes with being a true independent nation state, the extremist element would become more and more irrelevant and people would be occupied with building their state, economy and society. When people have hope, a future for their kids they are less concerned with hate and they focus on living.

The strategic reason would be defensive as in the height of the area and the continuous rocket and other attacks. As you say, it’s illegal, and Israelis shouldn’t be settling there. I’m simply saying that there are strategic reasons, not just religious or expansionist ones.

What the fuck have I just read?? The best solution would be to annex the land with settlements on the West Bank.? You mean the ILLEGAL settlements. So the best solution is to steal more of Palestine. I've heard it all now.

Some people refuse to accept that the issue is that Palestine is seeking self determination, not to destroy Israel.

There are some very disturbing views on this thread unfortunately.

IKR? 😬 So ridiculous and evil. Some of the comments have been so vile here lately.