Gary Lineker - foot in mouth again

[onegrumpyoldwoman]

I wish this guy would stick to football or selling crisps

Most recently, he gave an interview to Medhi Hassan (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/12/lineker-appears-to-call-oct-7-attacks-the-hamas-thing/ ) where he appeared to minimise the October 7th Hamas attacks as “the Hamas thing”, whilst falsely stating of the war in Gaza “I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen worse in my lifetime”. This statement is absurd hyperbole given that Mr Lineker was born in 1960 and has hence lived through major wars such as Vietnam, Iraq, Iran-Iraq, the Soviet and Western interventions in Afghanistan, and the Syrian Civil War, all of which have cost hundreds of thousands, in some cases millions, of lives.

I do not believe that it is compatible with Mr Lineker’s role as a presenter on Match of the Day, and hence an employee of our national public broadcaster, which is supposed to be politically impartial, for him to take such outspoken stances.

I think he is absolutely right in his points. I am glad a high profile celebrity like him is prepared to call out these issues

A twat just like his disgusting brother. The “hamas thing”???

Thank you, this sums up exactly why this conflict is different.

OP you hate him speaking out because his opinion is different to yours. If he had spoken in support of Israel’s actions I suspect you would be more than happy.

So not willing to make the sacrifice of not watching live TV or BBC iplayer for your values even though there are plenty of other, cheaper ways to watch shows on telly?

I don’t think being a licence payer gives you hire/fire authority over BBC employees anymore than a Netflix subscription would give you hire/fire rights over their employees either.

Because you don't think he should be allowed an opinion while working for The BBC or because he doesn't agree with you?

A lot of people take little notice of what happens outside the UK, or at a stretch Europe. But if awful events from one country are repeatedly put under their noses by their media outlets of choice then I suppose these will have been the worst thing they can remember seeing in their lifetime.

Is that a question or a statement?

He’s actually right. In terms of the extent of destruction in the timeframe it is worse than all of those conflicts and in terms of the concentration of civilian casualties

Rwanda had a death toll of almost a million civilians in three months. Lineker is no spring chicken, he was an adult when that took place.

So I should have to give up watching TV because some bone-headed bloviating has-been can't stick to the rules in his contract?

Well there is a question mark at the end of it so what do you think?
That is also a question by the way - due to the question mark on the end

And it’s interesting because Oct 7 was a horrifying, shocking 6 hours of hell but Israel has been seeking vengeance for it so far with 220 days of utter destruction, death and deliberate starvation. Israel’s response has been wildly disproportionate.

The other perspective is that after October 7, Israel declared war on Hamas and is intent on wiping them out militarily, rather than being motivated by vengeance, and that this is unfortunately what war looks like in a densely populated area with one side heavily embedded within civilian areas and infrastructure.

I can totally understand people's huge distress and discomfort with the images, but I also think painting Israel as motivated by revenge, as opposed to ensuring future security, is a deliberately bad-faith take that at times veers quite close to blood libel.

I think he should stick to the terms of his contract.

He’s a pain in the arse and he should stick to commenting on football and not world politics!

Very well said 👍

What does his contract say? Do you have a copy?

Yes, but did he see it? And one important difference is that Rwanda wasn’t a genocide done by the state and its military. It was civilian neighbour attacking civilian neighbour. It wasn’t an armed conflict.

No, but the BBC did put a special clause in it to try and curb him sounding off about matters unrelated to football..

(Which doesn't seem to have worked)

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/sep/28/bbc-updates-lineker-clause-to-restrict-presenters-airing-political-views

It's the worst since Rwanda in terms of the kill rate. It's also clearly genocide. Obviously we're not seeing the worst of it as the IDF are killing journalists making it the most lethal "war" for journalists ever. Israeli airstrikes additionally damaged or destroyed an estimated 48 media facilities in Gaza.

@IbisDancer It wasn’t an armed conflict.

I'm not sure how you can say that because people didn't kill others with their bare hands.

People were killed mainly by rifle or machete.

”These presenters will be banned from endorsing or criticising a political party, criticising the character of individual politicians in the UK, commenting on any issue that is a matter of political debate during an election period, and taking up an official role assisting or fundraising for campaigning groups.”

has he broken this? The next General Election date hasn’t been announced yet, so is this an election period?

The definition of armed conflict excludes civilians.

Does that definition make the situation any better?

“Non-international armed conflicts, according to common article 3 of the Geneva Convention, are ‘armed conflicts that are non-international in nature occurring in one of the High contracting parties’ (Geneva Convention, common article 3, 1949). This means that one of the parties involved is nongovernmental in nature. However, common article 3 also states that it does not apply to other forms of violence such as riots, isolated and sporadic acts of violence. This abstract definition has made it difficult to make a clear distinction between a mere disturbance and an armed conflict, therefore relying heavily on the political will of states to classify the situation as an armed conflict. For a situation to be classified as a non-international armed conflict, it has to achieve two variables: first, the hostilities have to reach a certain minimum level of intensity (Vite, p 75; ICRC, 2008, p 3) and form in a collective character; and second, there has to be a level of organization of the parties (Vite, p 75)“

Rwanda was in fact a civil war and the majority of the killings were carried out by Hutu soldiers, police, and militia.

I was also born in the 60s.
Gary Lineker has the right to express his personal opinions outside of work. After all, we all are, as he wasn't speaking as a representative of the BBC, at the time.
I also don't understand why some posters, who disagree with his views, feel the need to call him an idiot. Why results to insults? Why post an article on him defecating on the pitch? It is irrelevant.
Do I believe what is happening in Gaza is worse than any other conflict? Statistically, yes but suffering, in my opinion, shouldn't be graded.
Tell a Palestinian mother that losing her child is not as bad that of a Syrian mother losing hers because of the numbers of Palestinian mothers in her position are not as high as the Syrians ones.