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Conflict in the Middle East

Why do people think anti-isreal is the same as anti-semetic?

321 replies

enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:20

Just that. If I was anti-Iran, it is never called anti-Islamic.

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Mimrr · 31/03/2024 23:23

Israel is the only country for Jewish people though.

Mimrr · 31/03/2024 23:24

Plus people don’t mean they don’t want Iran to exist. They are against the regime. A lot of people don’t want Israel to exist and its 9 million people to be expelled/killed.

enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:24

Mimrr · 31/03/2024 23:23

Israel is the only country for Jewish people though.

What has that fact got to do with anything? By that logic, you can never criticize Isreal, because if you do its anti-Semitic.

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enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:26

Mimrr · 31/03/2024 23:24

Plus people don’t mean they don’t want Iran to exist. They are against the regime. A lot of people don’t want Israel to exist and its 9 million people to be expelled/killed.

Why is that anti-Semitic? To want what they see as an occupying force to leave what they see as their country? A Military regime that puts people in refugee camps and seizes their land.

The religion of the occupiers is not relevant. Who cares if they're all from the same religion?

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BanditBar · 31/03/2024 23:27

The vast majority of people I have come across who are vociferously anti Israel ARE anti-Semitic. Although they wouldn’t recognise it or admit it, of course.

enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:31

BanditBar · 31/03/2024 23:27

The vast majority of people I have come across who are vociferously anti Israel ARE anti-Semitic. Although they wouldn’t recognise it or admit it, of course.

The vast majority of people I know are not.

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Polka83 · 31/03/2024 23:31

enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:20

Just that. If I was anti-Iran, it is never called anti-Islamic.

Used to shut down criticism of Israel?

Not all agree that criticising Israel is anti-semitic.

Extract from link below:

C. Israel and Palestine: examples that, on the face of it, are not antisemitic
(whether or not one approves of the view or action)

Supporting the Palestinian demand for justice and the full grant of their political, national, civil and human rights, as encapsulated in international law.

Criticizing or opposing Zionism as a form of nationalism, or arguing for a variety of constitutional arrangements for Jews and Palestinians in the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean. It is not antisemitic to support arrangements that accord full equality to all inhabitants “between the river and the sea,” whether in two states, a binational state, unitary democratic state, federal state, or in whatever form.

Evidence-based criticism of Israel as a state. This includes its institutions and founding principles. It also includes its policies and practices, domestic and abroad, such as the conduct of Israel in the West Bank and Gaza, the role Israel plays in the region, or any other way in which, as a state, it influences events in the world. It is not antisemitic to point out systematic racial discrimination. In general, the same norms of debate that apply to other states and to other conflicts over national self-determina- tion apply in the case of Israel and Palestine. Thus, even if contentious, it is not antisemitic, in and of itself, to compare Israel with other historical cases, including settler-colonialism or apartheid.

Boycott, divestment and sanctions are commonplace, non-violent forms of political protest against states. In the Israeli case they are not, in and of themselves, antisemitic.

Political speech does not have to be measured, proportional, tempered, or reasonable to be protected under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or article 10 of the European Conven- tion on Human Rights and other human rights instruments. Criticism that some may see as excessive or contentious, or as reflecting a “double standard,” is not, in and of itself, antisemitic. In general, the line between antisemitic and non-antisemitic speech is different from the line between unreasonable and reasonable speech.

https://jerusalemdeclaration.org/

The Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism | JDA

The Jerusalem Declaration The Jerusalem Declaration On Antisemitism On Antisemitism The Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism is a tool to identify, confront and raise awareness about antisemitism as it manifests in countries around the world today. It...

https://jerusalemdeclaration.org/

pleasenosey · 31/03/2024 23:32

The spelling is Israel.

BanditBar · 31/03/2024 23:33

You asked a question and you don’t like the answer.

Kindatired · 31/03/2024 23:47

Apar from 7/10 ,the actual number of Israeli casualties is relatively low since 2008. The number of terrorist related deaths is a fraction of the number of road deaths on an annual basis.
I think that the majority of these Israeli casualties have been on the Palestinian side of the green line. By this I mean that a lot of Israelis have not been killed inside the 1948 border of their own country but in the Occupied Palestinian Territories when they were there for whatever reason.
So I think that the narrative has been spun that those who oppose the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian Territories are antisemitic. This suits Israeli propaganda machine better than the alternative narrative that Israel has opted to effectively annexe Palestine gradually, resulting in unending security problems for both.

enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:47

pleasenosey · 31/03/2024 23:32

The spelling is Israel.

?

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enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:48

Kindatired · 31/03/2024 23:47

Apar from 7/10 ,the actual number of Israeli casualties is relatively low since 2008. The number of terrorist related deaths is a fraction of the number of road deaths on an annual basis.
I think that the majority of these Israeli casualties have been on the Palestinian side of the green line. By this I mean that a lot of Israelis have not been killed inside the 1948 border of their own country but in the Occupied Palestinian Territories when they were there for whatever reason.
So I think that the narrative has been spun that those who oppose the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian Territories are antisemitic. This suits Israeli propaganda machine better than the alternative narrative that Israel has opted to effectively annexe Palestine gradually, resulting in unending security problems for both.

Yeah..

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enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:48

Polka83 · 31/03/2024 23:31

Used to shut down criticism of Israel?

Not all agree that criticising Israel is anti-semitic.

Extract from link below:

C. Israel and Palestine: examples that, on the face of it, are not antisemitic
(whether or not one approves of the view or action)

Supporting the Palestinian demand for justice and the full grant of their political, national, civil and human rights, as encapsulated in international law.

Criticizing or opposing Zionism as a form of nationalism, or arguing for a variety of constitutional arrangements for Jews and Palestinians in the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean. It is not antisemitic to support arrangements that accord full equality to all inhabitants “between the river and the sea,” whether in two states, a binational state, unitary democratic state, federal state, or in whatever form.

Evidence-based criticism of Israel as a state. This includes its institutions and founding principles. It also includes its policies and practices, domestic and abroad, such as the conduct of Israel in the West Bank and Gaza, the role Israel plays in the region, or any other way in which, as a state, it influences events in the world. It is not antisemitic to point out systematic racial discrimination. In general, the same norms of debate that apply to other states and to other conflicts over national self-determina- tion apply in the case of Israel and Palestine. Thus, even if contentious, it is not antisemitic, in and of itself, to compare Israel with other historical cases, including settler-colonialism or apartheid.

Boycott, divestment and sanctions are commonplace, non-violent forms of political protest against states. In the Israeli case they are not, in and of themselves, antisemitic.

Political speech does not have to be measured, proportional, tempered, or reasonable to be protected under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or article 10 of the European Conven- tion on Human Rights and other human rights instruments. Criticism that some may see as excessive or contentious, or as reflecting a “double standard,” is not, in and of itself, antisemitic. In general, the line between antisemitic and non-antisemitic speech is different from the line between unreasonable and reasonable speech.

https://jerusalemdeclaration.org/

This is great, thank you!

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Zonder · 31/03/2024 23:50

Used to shut down criticism of Israel?

Totally this.

enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:51

BanditBar · 31/03/2024 23:33

You asked a question and you don’t like the answer.

What are you saying? I asked a question and got bigoted answers back, so I obviously didn't like them.

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BanditBar · 31/03/2024 23:52

Bigoted? Oh please. It’s impossible to discuss this with people like you. See ya!

ThreeTreeHill · 31/03/2024 23:52

Obviously criticising Israels actions is not anti-semetic, and I used to think the same as you but I have seen an awful lot of blatant anti-semetism in the name of anti-zionism over these last few months, a lot of loud anti-Israel people are anti-semetic

enenenya · 31/03/2024 23:54

BanditBar · 31/03/2024 23:52

Bigoted? Oh please. It’s impossible to discuss this with people like you. See ya!

Good riddance.

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maudelovesharold · 01/04/2024 00:01

A lot of people don’t want Israel to exist and its 9 million people to be expelled/killed.

A lot of Israelis don’t want Gaza or the West Bank to exist and are supporting their government’s best efforts to achieve that aim through occupation of land which is not theirs, persecution, starvation and murder of civilians. HTH.

Zonder · 01/04/2024 07:06

BanditBar · 31/03/2024 23:33

You asked a question and you don’t like the answer.

To be fair yours was just one answer and other people have different ones. OP can't agree with everyone's responses.

I don't agree with yours. I'm anti the Israeli government and condemn their actions against Palestine but I'm not anti Semitic.

mids2019 · 01/04/2024 07:19

This gets tiring......

Israel is a country founded in 1948 and it's neighbours want it wiped off the map. Anti Israel is not a criticism of government but a statement that you wish the Jewsih state to be released because you didn't feel it should have been constituted in the first place.

Please feel free to use anti Israeli cabinet if you wish to criticise the government. I read about Israeli protesters in Jerusalem who were criticising their government (get guys it's a dwmocracy) and they certainly weren't anti Israel.

There are many in this country who criticise our governments policies but we're not 'anti British'. Anti Israel is antisemitism hiding in plain site; please feel free to disguise you condemnation of Jews by use of this term 🙄

Babycatsarenice · 01/04/2024 07:38

Before Israel blockaded Gaza there were bombs on buses and in other public places daily in Israel and they still fire rockets this is forgotten by people commenting on the current war. Its not a case of Israel existing and trying to expand its borders, it has constantly been at a state of war since its inception. The state of Israel was created to house refugee Jews who were hunted down and killed in Europe and who were expelled from every Arab country. Britain and others refused to let the refugee Jews in and promoted the idea to put them in Israel (even though they had existed for centuries in Europe). So criticising Israel in the way most people do ie the River to the Sea free Palestine - wipe Israel our basically means kill all Jews.
Being Anti Israel means hoping for all jews in Israel the only jewish state to die.
Being anti war is different and I wish more people were like that - so can appreciate the terrible actions on both side. Not just the atrocities of 7th October and the terrible warfare since but all the bombs and fighting before then to create this situation.

mids2019 · 01/04/2024 07:44

@Babycatsarenice

well said and very eloquent

it is quite easy to choose words to criticise the Israeli government if you do wish with resorting to anti Israel and the connotations of the destruction of the Jewish state it invokes.

Asurvivor · 01/04/2024 07:46

As another poster asked, why do you spell it as Isreal? The country’s name is Israel, so why do you misspell it? At least when someone points out the mistake, use the correct name going forwards. In your other example OP, it would be like saying “Iarn” instead of Iran, which would be wierd too.

I see some posters doing this persistently and I genuinely don’t know why.

wafflyversatile · 01/04/2024 07:47

Because pro israel lobbyists deliberately conflate the two in order to dismiss criticism of Israel.