Genuine question - why does the USA support Israel so strongly?

[Bathsheba1789]

Genuine question. I just don’t understand it. I do know some of the history, and the feelings about the need to create a Jewish homeland post WW2. However currently - Netanyahu and Biden don’t get on, Obama had a very frosty relationship with Netanyahu. The current Israeli coalition government contains some openly extremist politicians who have used racist rhetoric against the Palestinians in the past.
The IDF are clearly committing war crimes and the international pressure for a ceasefire is mounting.
So why is the US so pro Israel? The current debate about the UN resolution - why is the US demanding the language be watered down to keep Netanyahu happy - for goodness sake the USA is the most powerful country in the world.
genuinely don’t get it. This isn’t a goading question I just scratch my head at the whole thing (when not feeling utter despair at the terrible suffering in the world).

Interesting article I chanced upon about US, Israel and Genva convention:

https://skwawkbox.org/2023/12/22/us-trying-to-persuade-switzerland-to-waive-geneva-conventions-for-israel-in-gaza/

"US trying to persuade Switzerland to waive Geneva Conventions for Israel in Gaza

Rules of war banning inhumane treatment of POWs and civilians should not be invoked, say US diplomats behind scenes as US complicity in Israeli war crimes becomes explicit

US diplomats are trying to persuade Switzerland – the custodians of the Geneva Conventions governing the rules of conduct during war, with the ability to decide when meetings are held to discuss non-compliance – to set aside the application of the Conventions to Israel’s genocidal campaign against Palestinians in Gaza, according to documents seen by the HuffPost US.

The Geneva Conventions are a set of treaties and protocols known particularly for the strictures of the third and fourth conventions on how nations can treat civilians and prisoners of war:

• The First Geneva Convention “for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field” (first adopted in 1864, revised in 1906, 1929 and finally 1949);
• The Second Geneva Convention “for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea” (first adopted in 1949, successor of the Hague Convention (X) 1907);
• The Third Geneva Convention “relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War” (first adopted in 1929,[35] last revision in 1949);
• The Fourth Geneva Convention “relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War” (first adopted in 1949, based on parts of the Hague Convention (II) of 1899 and Hague Convention (IV) 1907).

But Israel – whose advocates frequently complain that they want Israel to be treated like any other country – and its US backers want Israel to be exempted from these universal rules of war."
^^

I ope Israel can eradicate Hamas one and for all and secure the safety of its 9m+ citizens. If that means a large area which becomes a no man's land owned by Israel as a bulwark against Gaza with no entry and exit so bit it - that may be the only way but they will need to make sure every single tunnel goes too
I also hope Israel can eradicate Hamas and secure the safety of both Israelis and Palestinians, but also think they're going to have to do more than flatten areas civilians are living in to remove the actual threat.
If there's a buffer zone required, I'd support that too, but it's also going to require movement on settlements not just flatten some of Gaza to make a no man's land.

My concern, which I'm sure will get hated on as it has before, is that Hamas might go but the ideology remains and another few generations of people are ripe for radicalisation unless there's some proper planning, proper moves for peace and I don't think that's likely with the current Israeli government. No amount of military action that's affecting huge numbers of civilians is going to change hearts and minds.

There's been moderate politicians before who have made proper moves towards peaceful solutions, and then when it gets within touching distance there's a lurch to the right and the cycle kicks off again.

Most of these threads are echo chambers now.

You’re ok with the Palestinians in Gaza being kept in an open air prison with no rights over their own lives and land?
Dont know where these ‘lots of people’ supporting Israel are - an ever increasing number are against the actions of the Israeli government and IDF in the same way as they are against Hamas.

Some posters on this thread seem to be placing an Israeli life above a Palestinian life.

@Xenia do you approve of how the IDF are conducting their campaign in Gaza, being a supporter of Israel? Genuinely interested.
I wouldn’t say I don’t support Israel exactly in this war - I think the attacks on 7 oct were horrendous. But I completely disapprove of Israel’s reaction - I think there is a chance it could veer into genocide/mass displacement/famine.

As someone in the USA I think the No 1. reason is a foothold in the Middle East for foreign policy reasons. Don't forget the UK fully supported the creation of Israel and was in the Palestine region as colonialists. This was all to have access and influence over the region.

Germany support Israel.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/23/germany-is-now-our-closest-european-ally-says-israel/

Money and corruption

Germany dislikes both the Israeli and Iranian governments. At the moment it dislikes Iran more.

Germany overcorrected so much it swung right back around.

Germany does, in particular, support Israel but even Germany, the UK and the US are warning that the Israeli authorities are killing too many civilians. Israel is losing the unconditional support of it’s allies. It’s very hard now for anyone to support the displacement of nearly all of Gaza, the destruction, the death toll in particular of children and the warning bells of famine and illness spreading.

Finally a sensible comment! Israel is an incredibly dynamic & successful economy particularly in tech. Surely the question is, why wouldn't America support Israel?

It is the only country in the region with genuine equal rights for women and LGBT

——

yet a woman can’t ask for divorcing their partner
yet a gay person can’t marry their partner

equal rights HA.

I’ve assumed that it’s largely a strategic alliance giving them a presence and influence in the Middle East.

With islamaphobia / antipathy and distrust towards Islamic countries the other side of the same coin.

Who knows what agreements are in place behind the scenes.

@EasterIssland you also can't marry your partner in Greece or Italy. I wouldn't say they are undemocratic.

It's also not allowed in any Islamic countries.

And tbh it's only be allowed here for 10 years.

Stop policing her.

It can be a genuine question if someone is not that au fait with American politics.

Christian - ie - extremely conservative Protestant - movements in the US believe that the seond coming of Christ will happen in Israel. They want Israel looked after for that reason. What they will do with the Jews after the arrival of Christ is a question that is not usualy answered.

These people are very important voters in the US, they vote on three issues - 1st- abortion, 2nd - tax and 3rd - Israel.

You can get an idea of just how significant they are if you look up the mega churches.

That may be true but the claim that it is the only country in the region with genuine equal rights for women and LGBT is false.

the fundamentalist Christians are a niche group, who hold little sway;

I disagree with this. Religion is significant in the US. 140 million are protestant, about 60 plus are Catholic with lots of Evagelicals, Baptists also in the mix. They vote. With the exception of Trump all contenders for the presidency in the US need to declare for God.

Kennedy was the first Catholic elected. There has never been a Jew and it is unlikely that a Jewish man (it will definately never be a woman) could win the pesidency. That being said I think it woud be more controversial for a contender to be an atheist than a Jew.

If we think about it the modern itteration of the US was founded by and for religious extremists. It still drives a lot - look at the abortion debate.

Looks like the US and some European allies (almost certainly includes the UK) are trying to block a conference to investigate war crimes committed by both Hamas and the IDF.

Why is a failure to include condemnation of Hamas in the wording of a UNSC resolution a barrier to passing a resolution calling for a ceasefire but when the international community attempts to hold Hamas accountable the US tries to block the initiative to protect the Israeli government who would also have to answer for their actions and they know "but Hamas" is not an adequate defence for starving civilians and depriving them of water.

www.huffpost.com/entry/un-security-council-us-block-accountability-international-gaza_n_6583338ce4b04da984257b9c

Israel gets a cash injection of just under four billion dollars per year fron the USA. So yes - Israel is incredibly dynamic and successful in large part due to this massive chunk of change.

Before we start painting an oasis in the desert myth lets remember that pre Isreal it was also a incredibly dynamic andsuccessful.

Lets remeber more recenty the riots in Tel Aviv because locals could not afford housing, cost of living was through the roof, corruption was wild and in your face.

Lets not ignore the tension between the religious right and the liberal rest, the creep of authoritarianisim.

Lets remember riots and protests against this government who were doing their hardest to subvert the laws of the land and implement rabbinacal law.

Lets not ignore how Arabs are treated - pretend rights are not the same as actual rights.

Lets not forget that Nethayahu ran for office to keep himself out of prison - he was going to lose his court cases.

Lets not forget that in order to keep himslef out of prison he formed a coalition with an extreme right wing group - and here we are today.

We live in a heavily propagandist era. We need to look beyond the propoganda and be sensible.

We are all horrified by what Hamas did.

We need to also be horrified by what Israel is doing.

@FOJN ok name a country in the region with ANY genuine rights for women and LGBT?

Lebanon, Palestinians.

But why is that the yard stick of measurement? We worked on these issues after a lot of other issues were worked out in society. In general, countries work on broad sweeps like the role of government, housing, healthcare, education, workers rights, cares for the poor, democracy, and so on first.

But that is our culture and we in the west are not long resolved. Women in the States got the right to a credit card in the 1970s. Gay rights swept Europe in the last two decades.

And so on.

ok but still I’d not say that Israel provides equal rights to women or lgbt when they don’t

Israel was meant to be a democratic civilised country, placed upon a strategic location for the US. The US would fund it (very heavily) in return.

Now Israel has turned into an extremist violent state with an army heavily equipped with expensive high grade weapons but behind it all of questionable competence. The US must privately be bitterly regretting ever having given Israel
any kind of independence but they’re stuck with it now if they don’t want to lose their foothold in the ME.

@EasterIssland but they do provide something. A safe haven in a sea of nothing.

Instead or expecting more from Israel you could ask for anything of the surrounding states? Anything at all.