Dehumanising of Palestinians

[dreamingdays]

The persistent dehumanising of Palestinian civilians is everywhere, including here on MN and across social media, the news and more.

From branding all civilians including babies and young children as terrorists, to people saying innocent children sent to jail as deserving it, posts smearing all Palestinians with celebrating terrorist atrocities, others celebrating the death of young children (yes really), to politicians branding them “children of darkness”. To Palestinian men all lumped as Hamas or rapists. Palestinians called human animals or worse.

To the language used to describe Palestinians in the news is completely different, often using double standards. I also feel that leeway and downplaying is given towards people being racist towards Palestinians. It is brushed off or ignored or denied, not always taken seriously.

Maltreatment of Palestinian civilians is also ignored or excused or waved away and minimised, outright denied or ignored by many.

it just really gets me down. Please everyone, remember Palestinians are human beings. They have families, jobs, culture, skills, likes and dislikes, empathy and humanity.

if you see anyone displaying or downplaying racist attitudes, or making offensive dehumanising remarks please call them out. Please also take time to recognise and challenge dehumanising language used in the media and elsewhere.

On a broader level this dehumanising emboldens those undertaking their mistreatment, excuses and justifies illegal violence made towards them, as well as affecting each Palestinian on an individual level.

The same obviously goes for anyone using dehumanising language to anyone, whatever their nationality or religion.

Palestinians need support now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal

interesting article about dehumanising use of language towards Palestinians

Oh and also wanted to mention the many posters expressing confusion that other posters care about the plight of Palestinian people, as if caring about them is wrong or their lives a less worthy cause. Complete confusion in some cases as to why we would care.

One post I read earlier expressed bafflement that we would care about their lives as they were just “1% of people displaced 75 years ago”.

Again, dehumanising.

Thank you for writing this.

I agree with everything you wrote.

Everything Israel HAS and IS making Palestinins ho through has already on it’s on been something I can’t process, I can’t imagine how horrible it has to be to Palestinians in Gaza, or WB or around the world worrying about their family/friends.
And also to other arabs and muslims, islamophobia and anti-arab has spiked around the world.

Abd then add this layer or dehumanitasion has been stomach turning.
How so many people think this is okey and Palestinians, even babies, just do not matter.
And sadly, I’ve seen so many comments (and not just the Israelis cheering and laughing) of people enjoying this.
Civilians blown to bits is entertaiment for people.
😣

This really has open my eyes, I’m not saying that I thought there were no racism and bigotry in the worl, but the level of it is just…..
And situation like this.
When people have been oppressed and killed for 75+ years, to just not feel anything (or support it) is something I can’t not understand.

I really worry what kind of people I have to share this planet with.
And how many there are.

And not to make it about myself, but I have truly seen how many people who claim to care about people, are ’humantariens’ or ’feminists’ etc, as just totally full of shit.

Rant over. Sorry, but I’ve had so much anxiety about all of this, it just all came out now.

Free Palestine.
I hope they can live peacefully soon, without Israelis violence.
If anyone deserves that, it the Palestinians 💔❤️‍🩹🩷

Thank you for your post @FreedomOfSpeechBelongToEveryone .

A terrible time to be Palestinian, that is for sure.

Peace and respect for all Israeli and Palestinian civilians.

I have never personally seen all Palestinian civilians particularly children and babies branded as terrorists.
Who has said innocent children who have been jailed deserved it? There are minors under 18 so ‘technically children’ in our own country, in Israel and elsewhere in the world deprived of their liberty and kept away from society It’s what happens when young people break the law.
I just don’t recognise some of what you mention, it was an Israeli politician who described Hamas as human animals not all Palestinians and Israeli anger at Hamas is entirely understandable.
The suffering of the civilians on both sides of this conflict is horrific but I just don’t know how these people can be helped when Hamas promise to repeat October 7th again and again.
The eradication of the terrorist organisation which visited the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust is both Israel’s right and her obligation.

@Lovepeaceunderstanding i’m sure you’ve seen the evidence yourself for these smears in recent weeks here on MN. If not, please check prior threads or social media, Twitter is full of it, for example.

i feel you are as per my OP and your post above perhaps deliberately denying and minimising the dehumanisation and illegal mistreatment of Palestinian civilians, exactly what I wanted to avoid on this thread.

plenty of evidence counter to many of your points above easily found on MN alone.

anyway lest we get derailed….

Maybe the article linked above will enlighten you, care to read it and learn @Lovepeaceunderstanding ?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal

anyway, keen not to get derailed.

Who has said innocent children who have been jailed deserved it? There are minors under 18 so ‘technically children’ in our own country, in Israel and elsewhere in the world deprived of their liberty and kept away from society It’s what happens when young people break the law.

Your username is @Lovepeaceunderstanding so I will take you at your word that you want to understand. What happens to Palestinian children isn't like elsewhere in the world, does this bear any resemblance to what would happen to a child in the UK? The below is nothing like any justice system that I know of, perhaps you know differently?

Israel has the dubious distinction of being the only country in the world that automatically and systematically prosecutes children in military courts. Each year, between 500 and 700 Palestinian children are tried in these courts, which, in practice and by design, deny fundamental fair trial rights and due process protections. This dual system offers no semblance of justice. From the moment Palestinian children come into contact with Israeli soldiers, their very basic human rights are denied. The majority of Palestinian children report being blindfolded, strip-searched, and subjected to physical violence at the hands of Israeli forces. Most Palestinian children are not informed of the reason for their arrest, and over half are forced to sign documents in Hebrew, a language they cannot read or understand.The Israeli military court’s conviction rate is higher than 99 percent.

By 'these people' are you referring to Israelis and not knowing how to help them? It's pretty unclear.

Just because you have not personally seen it doesn't mean it is not true. It is everywhere on most posts that are justifying the obliteration of Gaza, it really is not hard to find. I have literally gasped in shock reading some of the posts about Palestinians and those posters get away with it because well it's Palestinians, they don't matter right?

Who has said innocent children who have been jailed deserved it? There are minors under 18 so ‘technically children’ in our own country, in Israel and elsewhere in the world deprived of their liberty and kept away from society It’s what happens when young people break the law.
In most and probably all democratic nations as Israel is, "children" are not ever imprisoned without trial and when they are found guilty in a court of law and imprisoned they are in the main sent to juvenile detention centres not adult prisons if it can be avoided. Please don't bring the rest of the world down to Israel's standards.

Thank you OP the dehumanising of Palestinians and the justification used to kill tens of thousands of them, including innocent children and babies, and completely obliterate their land is abhorrent. Future generations will question why we did nothing, just like the Holocaust, just like Rwanda, shame on all of us.

Please everyone, remember Palestinians are human beings. They have families, jobs, culture, skills, likes and dislikes, empathy and humanity.
**This 100%

Thank you @Dulra and @OuiOuiKitty . Sad that one of the first posters has already dehumanised and minimised and outright denied the mistreatment of Palestinians, implying they deserve what is happening to them right now.

I believe this kind of minimisation and denial of the oppression & apartheid of Palestinians should be condemned, called out and taken very seriously.

@dreamingdays realistically we don't run threads like that on here though do we? Echo chambers were everyone agrees?

The Poster was saying that there wasn't much in the way of evidence for some it. I haven't seen all babies described as terrorists although I agree Hamas is entrenched in the population. We know that to be true. It's laughable though that would include babies. Mumsnet is not responsible for what happens on other websites. I have certainly never seen it on here.

I also agree that some right wing politicians in Israel have used rhetoric that is unforgivable. I think on both sides there is a propensity to speak about each other in a dehumanising way and that needs to stop to move peace forward. Also to treat each other in a dehumanising way. From cradle to grave.

Posts are here are challenged as they should be because it's important to get things right or we will never move forward.

Sad that one of the first posters has already dehumanised and minimised and outright denied the mistreatment of Palestinians, implying they deserve what is happening to them right now

I don't think that's what they said at all. And that's somewhat emotive don't you think? Where have they done that?

@stomachameleon I shared an article above that posters comment outlining the ways that Palestinians have been dehumanised, yet the poster claimed to understand nothing of this. This I believe is likely deliberate minimisation.

If you've spent more than a little time on these boards (and I am pretty certain have seen the posters name floating about on various threads) or simply read the article or link I prepared above you would have seen all the evidence of this dehumanisation including quotes counter to what the poster suggested.

Here are just a couple of the points I believe the poster was minimising:

"It’s what happens when young people break the law."

A large percentage of the people held by Israel have never been charged, including children

The suffering of the civilians on both sides of this conflict is horrific but I just don’t know how these people can be helped when Hamas promise to repeat October 7th again and again.

When Israel is committing war crimes such as witholding aid, adequate safe zones and food and water to millions of people, this is beyond simply "eradicating Hamas" and to deny it is minimisation. Israel are committing acts of unnecessary cruelty.

"I just don’t recognise some of what you mention, it was an Israeli politician who described Hamas as human animals not all Palestinians and Israeli anger at Hamas is entirely understandable."

Minimisation, or at the very least refusal to accept or learn the facts. The article linked just above the posters' comment detailed many instances of commentary whereby Palestinians as a whole have been dehumanised by Israeli officials and government and they weren't referring solely to Hamas. Have a look.

Hope this helps clarify for you.

What has been happening to Palestinians is horrific and abhorrent, and I think it is possible Israel will make the position worse. I also know that in the last fifty years something like one Israeli has been killed for every ten Palestinians.

But what Hamas and Palestinian followers did on Oct 7 was obscenely violent to innocent Jewish and other peoples including children and babies - many of these particular people, ironically, had been working for peaceful solutions between Israel and Palestine.

The problem as I see it is that the Hamas leaders in Gaza want Palestinians to be killed so as to inspire their fighting spirit, and also take no responsibility for their well being , leaving that to the UN.

This is not just my opinion as I saw evidence on another thread where someone posted a clip of speeches from two Hamas leaders. I think they are mentally deranged, yet they are charismatic and many Palestinian people seem to be in favour of them.

I also think it is wrong that they are putting very young Palestinian children in training camps, then as too young teenagers involving or inciting them in acts of violence against the IDF. I believe that to be a crime against humanity.

Also, Islam or not, ordinary Palestinians as well as Hamas fighters were savage, vicious, sadistic rapists, and were systematically so, on Oct 7.

Also, Islam or not, ordinary Palestinians as well as Hamas fighters were savage, vicious, sadistic rapists, and were systematically so, on Oct 7.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The atrocities were carried out by Hamas (yes they were Palestinian). What do you mean by the word "ordinary Palestinians". That seems like an intentional smear to me.

However I would like to remind posters to please keep on track and not derail from the thread, the point of which was the dehumanisation of Palestinians, and not the atrocities of Hamas.

We are treading a dangerous line already between the conflation of Hamas and Palestinians.

This also brings me to another important point that I should have added into my OP:

Conflation of all Palestinians with Hamas is dangerous, dehumanising and racist. It should always be called out.

Lovepeacwunderstanding

Who has said innocent children who have been jailed deserved it? There are minors under 18 so ‘technically children’ in our own country, in Israel and elsewhere in the world deprived of their liberty and kept away from society It’s what happens when young people break the law.”

They can be very young. By the way I noticed Mark Regev called some 17 and 18 year old Israeli hostages if Hamas ‘children’ but those over about 13 in Israeli military prisons, ‘minors’.

No, our children, and Israeli children, who break the law are absolutely not treated in the same way.

Please consider watching this documentary “Stone Cold Justice” made by an Australian:

Unfortunately then Palestinians need to loudly by word and action, distance themselves from and condemn the actions of Hamas. Otherwise they will get lumped in the same pot. I dont see too much of that happening. I see lots of protests and marches, and lots of avoidance of the atrocities that have been committed. Whats that old teaching... about removing the log from your own eye before you criticise the one in your brothers...?

@Lobelia123 Hamas should be condemned of course.

By the same token, do you condemn the behaviour of the IDF, towards Palestinians, both current and historically? The apartheid situation, the war crimes, the prison of Gaza, the blockades, the racist aggression, the torture of children, the brutal rapes of IDF towards Palestinian women in jails, the bulldozing of homes and stealing of land, the failure to punish settler violence, the killing of innocent civilians in the West Bank and worse. All going on for many decades.

Most of this going on now and prior to the creation of Hamas.

Do you not see that rushing in to immediately play the but what about tune just exacaltes and perpetuates this terrible situation? No wonder a solution is so far from being found. at some point both parties have to take responsibility for their acts and make reparation. But let me spell it out for you - yes, I condemn that behaviour too, whether it comes from the IDF or from Hamas.

@Lobelia123 Thank you for your recognition of the crimes of Israel.

I am afraid we have to disagree. I don't think it is whataboutery to point out how long they have been undergoing this on a thread about Palestinians dehumanisation.

To be honest, when you are being bombed, starved and deprived of the basics to sustain life, you don't have the time to condemn the action of Hamas. You are too busy trying to survive.

I think the current Israeli government and the IDF have done themselves absolutely no favours in the wording of many of their public statements and quotes, which have been picked up and broadcast worldwide. They obviously don't understand/care how they're coming across, but it's losing them essential international support.

It's possible that Hamas may be coming out with similarly inflammatory material, but you can't help noticing that their spokespeople aren't given the same platform that the IDF are.

I meant the ordinary Palestinians, who were not Hamas fighters or fighters from one of the other militant groups, but who got through the broken fence on Oct 7.

There seems to have been a systematised orgy of killing and raping incited among all of them Hamas/other militant terrorist fighters, and opportunists alike.

Of course not all Palestinians are like that, and I do not mean to smear all Palestinians at all, but there was also a mob jeering at the naked girl being paraded in the back of the pick-up and people spitting on her.

I suspect the mothers, sisters, cousins etc of these men either do not know or think these women were ‘Haram’ any way. But it was these fighters and marauders who were not Islam imo.

By the way I do know there are English/American etc men who would do this too if their leaders/commanders gave them the chance.