Illegal settlements

[immigrant002]

I just watched a piece on itv and sky news how Palestinians are abandoning their houses in the west bank as they face severe intimidation by settlers and army forces

The reporter says the settlements are illegal they are universally accepted as illegal so my question is why is nobody doing anything ??
What is the purpose of international law and the UN ? Is it just Israel that gets away with is ?

I just don't see what the point of saying something is illegal but continuing to build more and more settlements for people from
US kicking Palestinians out of their homes ? Why are they getting away with this ?

Ben-Gvir announced 10,000 assault rifles would be given to settlers and civil defence teams, 4,000 ready to be distributed and 6,000 more were on order.

That was months ago reported by the Times of Israel on the 10th Oct.

This situation is so infuriating to watch, I can't imagine how the Palestinians are living it every single day. It's state sanctioned terrorism, plain and simple.

I've seen some truly awful videos of settler violence. I understand tons of it goes unpunished. And it's getting worse.

Why do the Israeli govt allow these people to get away with it?

They don’t just allow it - they facilitate it. They consider the West Bank disputed territory. Ultimately this Israeli government believe they have historical rights to the West Bank.

@usernameofnames Netanuahu's Likud party is committed to the development of the settlements. It's in the founding charter 1977. Settlements are encouraged and protected by the military. The charter states that care should be taken not to dispossess anyone, but that does not seem to work in practice. Here's some relevant passages from the founding charter, Judea and Samaria refer to the West Bank:
The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.SettlementSettlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone.

@stormy4319trevor thank you, great info.

This is an interesting interview which offers insight into the views of some of the settlers. I would hope that it’s an extreme viewpoint! Although some of it reflects the thinking in the government in Israel today.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers

@usernameofnames Oh good, spaces went a bit funny, but you can read the properly typed version on Jewish virtual library. It's not long.

Thank you for sharing @stormy4319trevor . That charter sounds strikingly like Hamas'.

@feralunderclass
It really does, doesn’t it?

This was an interesting read. Cameron discussing the issue of dismantling illegal settlements on his Israel visit.

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/17/two-state-solution-would-mean-relocating-200000-settlers-says-israeli-lawyer-who-has-david-camerons-ear

I was so happy when Cameron was brought into this.

When he first came to power I thought he was the stereotypical toff riding on connections rather than merit. My views changed as I watched him give speeches on grey mornings in grey locations, always earnest and well prepared, always smartly dressed and groomed, no matter how dull the topic or how small the crowd. He took his post seriously and tried to do it well. I watched him grieve for his child and watched people laugh at him as he asked people to try to be kind to disadvantaged and out of control teens. He’s a thoroughly decent human being and I’m glad he’s involved in this.

It's interesting, but in reality all he did was 'consult' this lawyer (who no doubt Israel will brand an antisemite). The UK at best might 'advise' or 'call' for the dismantling of settlements, but they will never impose sanctions. Israel have made it very clear of late that the settlements are going to expand, rather than retract, regardless of international law.

I know. The UK has no power to tell another country what to do. Just as Israel can’t tell the UK what to do. But the very fact that he’s coming out and staying it so clearly is helpful to anyone within Israel who might be trying to speak up clearly without being gaslighted and told that they’re mad or anti semitic.

And might even be a starting point for ultimate internationally agreed sanctions.

Can someone explain to me please why out of the 700,000 settlements, the lawyer is saying that 200,000 need to be dismantled to be able to create a Palestinian state?
So will the rest remain? Will the remaining settlements come under Israel or Palestine?

Just having the discussion is definitely a starting point. Meaningful action will obviously take years, if not decades.

@Parkingt111 I imagine negotiations to define future borders will involve land swaps to minimise the number of settlements needing to be dismantled and Israel will ultimately keep much of the land it has illegally encroached upon.

@ItsRainingTacos79 I actually really want to start a thread on a two state solution as I feel it's something many people want but there's not enough we know about it. For example proposed borders and how it would be implemented

I keep coming back to this thread to see if there is a discussion on how a two state solution would work but posters have only ever shut down the conversation by saying Hamas always rejects it. I've read that Hamas was open to John Kerry's plan in 2015/16 but the Israelis refused as it involved dismantling settlements. Prior to that, there was the peace deal that was scuppered by Rabin's assassination. What have been the sticking points since the? Hamas does ultimately want a two state solution despite the old rhetoric but the Israeli government is now saying there cannot be a Palestinian State.

@ItsRainingTacos79
Your point has been made over and over again on these threads but is consistently ignored. I don’t know who they think they’re fooling at this stage. Hopefully at any moment the world’s governments will stop allowing themselves to be tied up in these ridiculous lies and force a halt to this ongoing mass murder, homelessness and starvation.

Subhi Shaledeh and his extended family had around 500 acres of prime grazing land in the Occupied West Bank, in the village of Janoub. They owned olive trees and hundreds of sheep. The land had been in the family for decades.
But overnight they lost their livelihood and their land.
Shaldedeh says on 9 October, two days after the 7 October attack by Hamas, settlers from an Israeli outpost, which is classed as illegal under both Israeli and international law, stormed their land and destroyed their homes.
"Over 50 settlers armed with long rifles, guns, knives and machetes came," Shaledeh says.
"They entered our homes, set our houses ablaze and took away our livestock."
The family of nine, including seven children, along with around 70 extended members of the Shaledeh clan, were suddenly homeless.
"The settlers took advantage of the war in Gaza. They expelled us from our land and told us to leave. 'This is an open war', they said."
With nothing to defend themselves with and no one to call on, the family was forced to immediately flee.
They haven't been able to return, the military has closed the roads, an Israeli checkpoint blocks the way, and the Shaledeh family say outpost settlers have taken over their land.
The Palestinian family is now renting one room for their large family in a nearby village. They can't harvest their olives or sell their sheep. Everything is gone.

The above was on sky news today
Absolutely outrageous settler behaviour allowed to happen by the Israeli government. Where is the justice?
50 armed settlers came and burned their house, took their livestock and have now illegally taken over their land
Leaving a extended family of 70 homeless.

And this has been going on for decades to the Palestinians all under the watch of the IDF and the Israeli government

Will they get their home and land back? Probably not
Will the settlers recieve any sort of punishment or even a measly fine? Also Probably not.

If someone stole just our car and the state allowed it and now the thief openly drives it infront of us then how would we feel? Yet the Palestinians are expected to just accept this abuse and humiliation

And if they dare to retaliate and fight the settlers they will either be injured or killed by them, or then taken away by the IDF and locked up In prison for having the audacity to defend themselves and their land