If it's all about destroying terrorist targets hidden underneath civilian areas...

[Icefoot]

Why would you bomb them? Surely the whole point of underground tunnels is that they're protected from attacks from above?

Don't Israel have some of the best special forces in the world, if it's all about removing military/terrorist hideouts, isn't there a way to do it without killing children, that's probably more effective too?

Do you give this level of thought to every global conflict? Or just this one? Genuine question.

Genuine question, why is this response being trotted out so much? What's the actual answer to the question?

There hasn't been this level of targeted attacks on civilians in any other recent conflict AFAIK. We've certianly never seen our own government auppoort the sode thats slauhtering children in their 100s before. That's why this one seems different to me. Does that answer your "genuine" question?

But maybe answer the question and people will stop asking it.

I’ve been wondering that too. I mean these tunnels are bunkers to all intents and purposes. What Israel are targeting I don’t know, but it can be the tunnels.

@PurpleChrayne

I was wondering this too- why is it that this conflict is generating so many protests and debate. Is it due to antisemitism?

I honestly don’t think so.

I think it’s because a lot people don’t agree with what our political representatives are saying - or not saying, when they don’t call for a ceasefire and pressurise all sides for negotiation and peace.

It’s like the marches against the Iraq war.

If the leaders came out and expressed concerns about need for proportionality from the beginning- then I think we would have seen less protests. Why protest when you agree with your government?

Recent survey from states show majority- amongst republicans and democrats- want ceasefire. This is from a reputable polling agency.

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/10/19/voters-agree-the-us-should-call-for-a-ceasefire-and-de-escalation-of-violence-in-gaza

Yougov shows similar support for ceasefire.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/survey-results/daily/2023/10/19/e363e/1

No, underground tunnels have some degree of protection but are NOT indestructible from above ground either.

They CAN be destroyed in whole or partially from missiles, depending the weapon of choice.

This will target as many tunnels as possible before the Israel Defense Force goes in. It makes it that bit easier for them to operate in hostile enemy territory. Any remaining tunnels will be destroyed by on the ground troops.

If there was a more effective way of taking out Hamas and their terrorist infrastructure, Israel would have taken it already. The reality is that there's a very, very limited range of options available. That's what happens when a terrorist group is able to take control of a territory once Israel withdrew its army in 2005.

Why were Israel in Gaza in 2005?

I found this article about the tunnel system really informative. Underground combat will be incredibly difficult.
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/underground-nightmare-hamas-tunnels-and-the-wicked-problem-facing-the-idf/

I could find one article referencing this $20billion relocation of Gazans plan in The Hindu.

Surprise, Surprise! Unconfirmed reports is what it is. So, not even happening anyway. 🤷‍♂️

Israel plan to have zero links to Gaza after this conflict.

@TiredMom30

You haven’t attached links because you know full well your story is made up. We see you.

Israel plan to have zero links to Gaza after this conflict.

Well, Netanyahu has stated that Gaza will be smaller when they're finished. If that's not clear intent to seize land, I don't know what is.

There was some talk of a DMZ that extends into gaza a bit but tbh i don’t think anyone knows what comes next. None of the articles or commentators think Israel has a plan. i think the one where Israel destroys as much Hamas infrastructure as possible, withdraws, seals their border and has nothing to do with Gaza is the most likely.

Surely the whole point of underground tunnels is that they're protected from attacks from above?

I imagine it's that the tunnels have to come up to ground level at some point, for their exit/entry point. And if you bombed the building that was on top of that, you'd potentially cause a collapse of the tunnel entry. If your tunnel entry has a building collapsed on top of it, it's pretty unusable.

To be clear, I don't therefore support things like bombing a refugee camp. But I don't think it's unbelievable that the bombings generally would cause damage to a tunnel system.

It means the security buffer zone will be enlarged. And zero links afterwards.

Not exactly completely unreasonable given Hamas spent years convincing the world they had zero interest in attacking Israel.

Now, nobody can doubt they'll never stop. 🤷‍♂️

The tunnels are at different depths, if you can collapse a section you can prevent free flow movement between tunnels and it makes it easier for IDF to block tunnels off while they are moving through them. Also they will be hoping militants will be inside the tunnels when they collapse or that they are trapped.

Why would you get deleted for adding links to factual news reports?

What do you think happens above ground when you destroy a tunnel?

Everything above ground collapses too.

That's why you don't build military targets under civilian areas.

Unless you are doing it so that civilians pay the price when you declare war on your neighbour by murdering and torturing their people.

I think it’s because a lot people don’t agree with what our political representatives are saying - or not saying, when they don’t call for a ceasefire and pressurise all sides for negotiation and peace.

It’s like the marches against the Iraq war.

If the leaders came out and expressed concerns about need for proportionality from the beginning- then I think we would have seen less protests. Why protest when you agree with your government?
I agree with this. I think a lot of people are horrified at what's going on and equally horrified that world leaders either sat on their hands or encouraged Israel at the start. At the start, and even now, it seems like a lot of people with power are not concerned about civilian lives on either side. It's all about propping their friends and allies up, arming proxies for other power interests etc. The media and international response made the situation worse in my opinion.

Only as the IDF is emboldened, global citizens aren't falling in line with support and major global organisations have reported the scale of the bombardment and crisis, have many major global leaders started to mutter something non committal about civilians, proportionality, humanitarian needs.

If the last few decades of global conflict have shown anything it's that you can't kill terrorist ideologies with bombs. You just create the next generation of fertile minds for radicalisation.

Oh come on, targeted attack on the tunnel itself might not be risk free for the nearby civilian population but it wouldn't have nearly the same level of casualties as the current approach.

People don't believe or trust the Israeli Govt. They make Farage look like Ghandi
This is an opinion piece but it pulls together what many people are generally thinking. They are rapidly losing public support. I suspect they don't care a bit though
A Conspiracy of Silence - Carnegie Middle East Center - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (carnegie-mec.org)

Yes of course, but why does that require flattening the buildings above and killing 1000s of civilians instead of sending in your brilliant and highly trained special forces to "collapse a section"?

@Icefoot its the quickest way to “cleanse” the area isn’t it?

The problem is Gaza is densely packed, the tunnels are literally under the buildings. They would have to be able to find each entry and exit to actually be able to get in. I don’t think they have the luxury of wandering around gaza staring at buildings unimpeded. They probably have an idea of where the tunnels are but finding the entry points will be much more difficult as there hasn’t been any IDF in there since 2007.

They're clearing land to build on and clearing humans because they don't see them as people. If they didn't want to kill civilians they could easily rehouse them within their own buildings before the bombings. If hamas were hiding underneath an Israeli housing block they certainly wouldn't bomb it.