Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 4 - all welcome

[mummycat1]

Starting new thread with massive congratulations to Nanoo I reckon the old man can wait till he gets home! But of course - it's up to you really xxx

xxBuckyxx - massive good luck for the next couple of weeks and thank you for the info and welcome.

Londonlottie - yes that's me. I decided to change my name but still keep Beanieb for my TTC thread that I have been on for ages as it's less confusing.

ladies
long time no post. I have been lurking, well trying to, when I have the time.
LL - glad things are going ok, but sorry you have been incarcerated! - You must be stir crazy. glad the girls are doing ok. 5lbs is very respectable. my DD was only 5lb 9oz at term!

Isle - Sorry to hear about your BFN, such a shame, I was really rooting for you and hoping this was your time

Bluebell congrats on your BFP

we are all fine, Louis is nearly 3 months. I am not sure where the time has gone, it has been a bit of a blur! He now weighs 14lbs. (PORKER) and doesn't stop eating, ever!

take care everyone, I am always thinking of you xx

DuelingF hello, I'm also another newbie and haven't been here at all long. Haven't even had my first ACU appointment in fact, but am finding everyone here very nice and welcoming . I read your other thread and am sorry to hear of your m/c. I had one earlier this year and it is such a hard thing to go through. I hope you are managing OK but a diagnosis of 'unexplained infertility' must not give you much to work with so I can imagine IUI/IVF is a tricky decision for you to make. What thoughts does your OH have about it, he is not leaving it entirely up to you I presume?

LL I think on balance the less drama you have at the moment the better, after your airborne shenanigans! So maybe getting excited about having proper showers and a wee haircut is the right thing to be doing for a bit longer yet. 33 weeks is great though. Do you know how much longer the doctors think you can keep incubating for, or is it just totally up in the air for everyone concerned?

mummycat I can imagine you feel heaps better for losing the excess weight and being more 'you' again now. Hopefully you will go from strength to strength now and be as svelte as you wanted for your xmas party! Got the dress already?

In answer to your question, I am still thinking about counselling but still haven't got very far with it. I think I have been going through a better patch in the last 2-3 weeks and it has felt less all-consuming and painful to be where we are - getting the appointment date through definitely helped - but I am sure that sooner or later it'll catch up again and I'll be wretched and wondering why I didn't fix up some help. So I probably just need to take that step and pick up the phone. Nag me if you like, it'll probably help!

Mamachris and KC, I don't think we have exchanged posts before so hello to you both.

Thanks all for your support and well wishes. On Monday the doc recommended operational hysteroscopy to explore and fix whatever they might find. Tentatively scheduled for mid December, but I'm unsure about doing it, although my doc has performed literally thousands of these procedures. Anyone have experience with it?

LL all good points and questions. We are definitely not looking for a specific cause to fix. And my doctor is salaried, so it doesn't increase her pay if this is done or not. She's recommending it because after two failed attempts it is diagnostic and it can be treatment, if they happen to find adhesions, fibroids that would interfere, septum - or something else that they could ablate or remove. It could be that they see that everything is fine, it's just that this procedure gives a real, full color look at the inside walls to see if anything is wrong. Some docs take a biopsy to measure some substance in the villi - but the treatment for that problem is what she already gives me as part of the ET, so it's not necessary.

My DH voiced his concerns at our appt and the doc answered them satisfactorily. She is recommending that we at least take a look, even if we don't continue with any further treatment because if I get pg naturally (against the odds) and there is a structural problem it could cause issues or mc with the pg anyway.

Ultimately I think the doc is aiming for another cycle of IVF - she's suprised I didn't fall pg these last two times. And she was very clear that she wouldn't continue treament or tests if she didn't think we had a very good chance of getting there. But of course we have to decide if that's what we want, and if we want to pay for it.

Hi Isle if it helps I had hy-co-sy last year. The dye didn't go through my tubes - probably beacuse they weren't too keen on having dye shot through them and so went into spasm!! Anyway, I then went on to have a laproscopy and dye done under general. It was a small procedure and they did it keyhole and went in through my belly button! They were able to do plenty of checking of everything and helpfully or not for me found nothing wrong!

A colleague of mine has just had a lap and they found some sort of blockage in her womb and she will now go on to have a hysteroscopy. Just wondered if you had already had a lap and what the difference is between the two things? Why does you Dr want you to go straight for the latter option?

Oh, and btw it's great to hear that she is so positive about your chances - it must make you feel a little better? Having said that I had seven months on clomid with the nurses saying every month that they were so surprised it hadn't worked for me so I know how frustrating/confusing it all can be.

In my heart, I'm not ready to give up Lottie. But I also have to consider where DH is with all of this, and it's wise for us to consider the financial implications and emotional risks to both of us. (but you all know that, already)

xx

x-posts with mummycat

I had a HSG almost two years ago, xray with dye to see if tube was blocked. I've never had laproscopy. Doc talked to us about the differences in approach and what they can see from either. From our point of view the laproscopy seems to be a bigger surgery, would require breathing tube and full anesthesia. There is also more risk, albeit still very small to puncture other organs accidentally. Laps are primariliy used to look at the outside structures and if you want to see inside it means perforating. Where as hysteroscopy is accessed through the cervix (sometimes dialated sometimes not). Laps also require more air in the belly, whereas this just requires fluid or CO2 in the uterus. So it seemed that this was less invasive.

In some ways, yes it does give me a glimmer of hope that things could still work out. In other ways it means that I won't be able to get off the rollercoaster ride just yet. Since I'm results-oriented, I'd do whatever it takes to get the result I want. However, from prior nerve ablations to my face - I do know that even with everyone doing their "best" sometimes there are unintended consequences.

I don't mind the idea of the anesthesia (just IV, like when I had the EC done) and it's easy peasy! I don't mind her taking a look around. But I have concerns about cutting, ablating, burning off things while she's in there - things that we don't even have a say in... because I'll be under anesthesia. So I have to go back and talk with her some more about it. I'm going to call and make an appt.

Hi Isle, really pleased to see you back on here working things out - and there seems to be a glimmer of hope that it wasn't your last cycle...? I just wanted to say that in 2006 I had a short operation where the surgeon did a laperoscopy, hysteroscopy and ovarian drilling all at once. It worked well for me, and DS was conceived within the 6 month window the consultant gave us post op. I'm not sure ovarian drilling would apply to you if you think you ovulate naturally (I don't)- but I signed up to the lap and hyst (for purely investigative reasons), and gave the surgeon the freedom to decide (while I was under anesthetic) whether the ovarian drilling would be suitable once he could see inside me. Not sure if that makes sense, or if it applies to you, but the drilling definitely worked for me. Strangely, this fertility consultant is one of the most senior/well respected in the UK, but he admitted that they don't really know why ovarian drilling works

Waves to everyone (LL, Bluebell Gingerwine), and hope all's going well for those on the 2WW (Bucky) and welcome to newbies (DuelingF)

Hi gals

LL to answer your question, after much going in circles we are trying to proceed with donor eggs. I say 'trying' because is the system was against us for IVF, it's a doddle compared to getting ducks in a row for DE! The UK clinics almost always do egg-sharing, which pretty much halves the chances at a stroke, as far as I can tell from the stats (30% compared with 50-60% abroad). That plus waiting lists is more than I can contemplate after this horrible year. A lovely friend has offered to donate for me but at 36 she's over the HFEA age limit. So we're looking abroad, and getting madly frustrated about how difficult it is to get information! I could go on at length, but suffice it to say it's probably either South Africa or Spain, at the moment. Spain is closer (good) but you get very little donor choice and rumours of poor welfare standards for the eastern european donors abound. S Africa is a 12 hour flight away, but we get loads of info about donors, including photos and personality - it's pretty much the US system but affordable.They're both the same price ish at £6-7000. Since all our treatments this year have pretty much wiped us out we only get one go at this, and the stakes now feel so high I'm struggling to get over the hump, pick something and get started...

Added to which the very good friend who got pregnant naturally instead of starting at the clinic with me has just had her baby, which has provoked all the usual mixed feelings...

And AF has just showed up, early, bringing this to a 24 day cycle, as if to underline my declining fertility...

And I need a higher purpose in life, I can't just eat, work, try not to spend money, and look at donor websites for the rest of my life...

this is the mood in which people have affairs, commit crimes, emigrate or resign from their jobs - considering doing all of the above.

Sorry for memememe rant

Nice to see you Flibberty, and great to hear how well Louis is doing!

Bluebell, how's it going? really need to keep hearing positive stuff!

LL I can imagine the excitement of a new haircut and shower! (actually, I always think haircuts are quite exciting - i always think somehow a whole new me is going to emerge - never quite does, but you never know, this time it might!)

Isle I do feel for you so much, not where you want to be, faced with lots of expensive and uncertain choices, and no answers... I do agree with whoever said it, that given your briliant response and your doc's feedback, there's gotta be at least a chance that you've been really unlucky and another go might do it. But I completely get that that isn't good enough from where you're sitting.

Sooty , are you there? Are you OK? I'd love to hear about your plans.

Hugs and waves to everyone.

Just dropping in to say I am still lurking here and to wish LondonLottie good luck. I really hope you do get to go home on Monday . Just make it through the weekend!!! Fingers and legs crossed for you. xx

I'm just plodding along on my 2ww...trying to decide if to cheat. My EC was on the 18th November, so today is Day 10. ET was 2 days later. Test day is next Friday which will be Day 17 or 15 days post ET...seems kinda long, no? Can I cheat and test on Thursday so I don't have to have the result on the day of my Xmas party? . Either way it is going to be a weird Xmas party though...but at least if its not good news I will hopefully not be crying at it!

Just popping in to say hello.

LL thats fantastic that they think there is a possibility of getting home soon . Really hope those contractions STAY AWAY over the weekend and you and the girls get to dance around your christmas tree! If you do get home does that mean you will be back at your local hospital for the births, or do they have the helicopter on standby for you?

Hi Bumpless - sounds like youve been doing loads of research. What a shame your friend has been judged as too old to donate her eggs. Would she be able to donate them to you in another country?
How am I? physically Im a wreck, overwhelming nausea, nosebleeds, constant coughing (then barfing) bone meltingly tired... emotionally and mentally still singing and dancing tho

Bucky I really feel for you, the waiting is torture. I know I couldnt cope, my resolve cracked at 10 days past EC. Its not cheating, its so easy to imagine you will be able to wait until the designated day - but its easier said than done! I think some of the early response ones can be used around 12 days after EC, they can pick up even small amounts of pregnancy hormone (im sure thats what LL told me in July )

Isle it sounds like your doctor is being very thorough and sounds positive about your future chances. As someone else said this is a good sign - my experience was of being given the "brutal truth" at all times! Sorry I cant help you with info about that procedure but it sounds like you have a good idea of what it entails already.

[waves] to nanoo Caitni DF Gingerwine everyone else.

Hi all.

Lottie Hope you are ok to get home on Monday. Just try and stay calmish and hopefully those contractions will stay away. And you are nearly at 34 weeks which I'm sure you could hardly imagine reaching a few weeks ago. Please don't be tempted to unpack boxes or stand on top of a ladder to put the star/angel/fairy on top of the christmas tree though! Rest on the sofa and direct all activities!

Bucky You sound like you are coping well with the 2WW. I was given an official test date on day 14 after EC so if I were you I would be tempted to test on Thursday. Fingers crossed for you and keep busy.

mummycat I'm glad things have settled down and you are back in your jeans. It must be a relief to put the OHSS experience behind you.

KC Nice to hear from you again. How are you doing? Do you have a plan yet?

DF Welcome. Just to answer about work and treatment - I am worried about this aspect too. My first cycle was no problem as I was not working but I have just started a new job which I really need to work hard at as I have been a SAHM for 8 years so I am a bit rusty!! I am very worried about how to cope with another cycle. Part of me feels I should tell work what is going on so they could understand but I also feel terribly guilty about starting the job when I have IVF going on too. In my experience if you ask you should be able to book your USS appointments very early or last thing to avoid disruption at work. The hardest thing is that you only get a couple of days notice before EC (although you will have a rough idea when your cycle starts). This is my biggest worry as it would mean a whole day of appoinments cancelled and then another day soon after for ET. I'm not sure that this is very helpful to you but just to let you know you are not alone with these worries and I guess in the end things just have to work out somehow.

Mamachris How are you now? Have you made any plans?

Isle I think it is wise to go back and see your doc to talk over the hysteroscopy procedure. It does give you a glimmer of hope but it is just so exhausting to put yourself in that position of hope again knowing how you will feel if you don't get a positive result. I would love for you to be able to have a go agian but I know it is all very expensive where you are and I could understand if you and your DH decided that financially and emotionally enough was enough. Good luck. It's a tough decision I know.

nanoo Hope all ok with you. Do you have another scan soon?

bumpless Glad you've been able to look at donor eggs. You've obviously done lots of research and it sounds like more difficult decisions. South Africa sounds good to me. Could you make it a holiday?
I hear what you are saying about needing another purpose in life. I think I am in a similar mood to you. Still quite tempted go and live on my own somewhere remote! Can't sleep (hence posting at this silly time). Managing to put on fake 'everything is fine' act to everyone except DH who is still putting up with me being a grumpy cow. Have gone off sex - can't see the point at the moment. I think someone else posted about feeling like this a while ago. I can't really be bothered with anything to be honest.

bluebell So glad things are going well. Do you mind me asking if you were taking any DHEA or 7 Keto or anything else magical that helped do the trick?

As for me I am just monumentally fed up with everything. My life is just not what I want it to be right now and I can't seem to get past that.

Hello to cerubina, caitni and flibberty

gingerwine Im so sorry to hear how fed up youre feeling just now. It must be doubly difficult being in a new job and having to keep up the appearance of everything being ok. I know how shit I felt in the summer so I can imagine how tough it is for you and for your dh just now. Not surprised you dont feel like sex - maybe have a week or two off?

It sounds like you are considering another cycle? Have you had follow up appointment with your consultant? It took me 2 months before I could face ours, but even though we were given really low odds of success it did help me to put our failed cycle behind us. I felt more positive when we had agreed a plan of action.

DHEA is that a supplement? I wasnt taking any supplements, not even folic acid. Having spent an entire year primed for pregnancy, I had given up hope so was completely unprepared.

Thanks bluebell. My poor DH was in tears this morning. He hates seeing me so unhappy and of course is dealing with his own feelings too. We do have a follow up appointment in a couple of weeks time and I know we can't make any definate plans til then. Physically I would start another cycle tomorrow but emotionally I'm not so sure. If we do I expect it will be March or so. Other life events will get in the way before then! I don't think we could go down the donor egg route for mostly pure logisitical reasons. We have thought about adoption but I'm really worried about attachment issues with children who have suffered so much. So it's probably IVF or just keep trying for us!

DHEA is a supplement that according to quite a lot of research (mostly US based) is meant to help improve fertility in people with diminished ovarian reserve. As you have managed to get a BFP without it I guess there is still a little hope.

Off to roast a chicken now!

Yum, roast chicken, one of my favourites! I'm going to amke a stew - nothing else for it on this horrible cold rainy day. And yes, that will be with dumplings - is there any other kind?!

I have achieved a triumph today. Went over to see friend's new baby, held him for an hour, was positive and congratulatory, and didn't wobble once. (Until we were in the car on the way back, but that doesn't count, right?)

Gingerwine so sorry to hear you're so , and that it's making your DH sad too. It's an awful time. I cried every day for 6 weeks after our last cycle failed, and just like you I could hardly stir myself to get dressed, never mind have sex. My acupuncturist has a neat Chinese theory to explain it - apparently we all have an energy called Jing, which is like a life force. It gets used up by things like pregnancy, illness and trauma - and IVF. So according to her, you need time to recharge your Jing before anything life-force-requiring is going to happen. I don't know whether I really buy it, but it's such an accurate description. Meanwhile, while we wait for the return of the Jing, were shall we go for our anti-social commune? I fancy a private atoll in the Maldives. Or maybe a rambling chateau in the S of France. With large wine cellar. Mummycat , Isle , are you joining us? Ginger why do you think donor eggs aren't an option for you, if you don't mind my asking?

Bluebell wow, it sounds like the hormones have really hit you hard. Hope you manage to keep looking o the bright side with your head down the loo...

LL I've got everything crossed that you manage to go home tomorrow! Can imagine what a treat it will be NOT to be in hospital. But I'm seconding what Ginger said: no going into supermummy overdrive now!

Bucky I was of the view that the longer I dodn't know, the longer I might be pregnant for... But the testing dates seem to be so varied that I'd go with testing when you want to - I'm sure the stress of being desperate to know isn't good for you anyway!

We've had a bit of a breakthrough on the DE front, and have found someone who helps UK couples do DE abroad, working with 2 small clinics in Athens and Madrid. It's cheaper than most of the big ones and they have better donor care too. So now we're basically deciding between a big holiday in South Africa (yes LL , it would be Cape Town), or a less expensive but less exciting one in Athens. Under normal circs I'd choose SA, but a) we're at the bottom of the financial barrel, and b) I'm a bit overwhelmed by everything so closer seems less threatening somehow. But Athens does mean we don't get to choose the donor. Hoping for a decision by the end of the weekend as I CAN'T keep worrying about this, it's like having toothache.

Hugs and waves to everyone xxx

Mmm. Stew with dumplings sounds good too. Maybe some time this week.

Bumpless I'm glad you've made some progress on the DE. I don't mind you asking at all. It is just the practicalities really. With my two DSs to think about and arrange childcare for it would be almost impossible. Not to mention the even more complex work situation if I were to jet off abroad at short notice. Then there is the fact that I am a very private person and have barely told anyone about IVF and that would be even harder if we were going away to do it. I haven't looked into it in great detail to be honest and I may be wrong about some of this but I just have a feeling that it is a step too far for us as we do have the DSs and in my few rational moments I know we are lucky and perhaps should just count our blessings. If we had no children between us I would go for it. I am a big believer in the process of pregnancy being playing a huge part in shaping the future of a child not just the genetics. I so hope it proves a success for you. Lots of luck on the decision making. Have some wine to help!!

The Maldives sounds great. Mauritius is lovely too (went there on honeymoon). Maybe we will get a good deal as there may be a few of us going together!

Bumpless that's great you have a breakthrough - to me it seems you are choosing between two wonderful possibilities, both full of hope :-) I disagree that Athens is less exciting (went their recently with work - was amazing). What does it mean to you to be able to choose the donor? Do you know what kind of information you'll be given in SA about the donor?

Oh Gingerwine I really understand how you feel - it's so hard. I know how defeated you feel - but you're not at the end of the road - SO far from it in fact. Of course you must consider doing it again, but don't force yourself if you're not ready now. It's so hard that your DH has taken it badly too, but at least that means he understands, and he's completely with you on this, and he'll understand your dark moods. (My DH was not at all supportive when I got down about it - he once shouted at me that I was greedy and I should be thankful for having one DS already. Ho hm). Anyway, keep roasting yummie chicken and why not make Bumpless's dumpling stew. I wolfed down a roast chicken last night with ALL the trimmings - it's the best :-) Roll on Christmas lunch!

Bucky you're very brave to test early - I'm afraid I waited for as long as I possibly could. I thought that I'd rather not know than have a negative....and then be bugged by not knowing if the negative was definite or not. It's really hard either way - I would try and hold on though. But that's just me!

What's the news LL? Any chance of an escape??

Also just a hello to Isle - just to let you know that I'm thinking of you and hope all's OK. I hope my ramble last week about my own hysteroscapy wasn't the wrong thing to say. Take care xx

No news from me - just still feeling sick and praying for this little thing to stick. Week 9 now - so another month before I feel I can relax

Hi everyone
This is probably my last post so I thought it only right to give an update before I depart. I tested yesterday because I had some spotting. It was a BFP but as the day went on the bleeding got heavier. I am still bleeding today and whilst its not as heavy as my usual AF I think that is probably due to the progesterone that I have to keep taking till Friday. Anyway, long story short, I'm pretty sure I am out. This will be my third BFP that ended in MC/CP...so its an all too recognisable situation . If anything changes I will let you know but I think that's it for me.

Good luck to everyone hope you get the healthy beautiful babies you deserve.

Thank you for your support.
Bucky x

Hi ladies
Just lurking as usual
Bucky sorry to hear about your news. When will you know for sure

Isle == hope you are ok

Lottie - are you home or still in jail. can't believe the girls birth is imminent. It seems like your BFP was yday

Bumpless if you want to talk about the Donor Eggs thing - just cat me. I have been through it twice and have been up and down with it all. we went to the Ukraine via our clinic in Ireland. There wasn't much choice when we started. But I know how tough it is to make such an important decision over the donor. i agonised for weeks and in the end went with gut instinct. Possibly not the most scientific way of deciding. anyway am here for you if you want to chat

hugs to everyone, sorry for rapid fire response!