Would you talk to a good friend about her decision to delay ttc?

[marthamay]

hi there,

Me and my very close friend both had our first two children in our late 20's early 30s - both of us fell pregnant pretty easily each time. We both then got cracking with being mums and careers etc. Both of us have talked on and off through the past few years about whether or not to try and have a third child. Well, late last year we both separately came to the decision to try for a third and we have had discussions many times about it. I am now 36 (nearly 37) and she is 37. Me and my dh have now been trying for a couple of months, but she and her dh have decided that they are going to postpone ttc until after a family holiday next year, when she is 38 and dh is 40. I know she feels a little uncertain about whether this is a good idea to wait, but a bit stuck.
Since I have decided to ttc seriously - I have been quite struck with the brutal reality that it may be much much harder at this end of our 30's than it was when we first conceived. I am prepared to be fatalistic about it and very grateful for my two dc. I have since looked at a lot of stats and read a lot of forum posts and even started looking at research articles (I work as a researcher in a University so it is hard not to go down that route!).
I guess I feel uncertain about whether to talk to her about whether her decision to postpone ttc (mainly at the wish of her dh I should add) for a holiday is a sensible one. I don't want to step on any toes and I don't want to assume that she hasn't done her own research on it - but in my mind I keep thinking "Is a holiday really worth it!?'
I know that I was pretty naive a few months ago, sort of assuming that a bfp would happen at the drop of a hat (and it still might - I realise that it's a very real possibility that they might conceive naturally first time!) - but I have this niggling feeling that maybe I should have a conversation with her about it so that she can really make a proper informed decision.
Gah! What would you ladies do?
Me and Friend have a wonderful and honest open relationship - I am just cautious about this particular topic - what would a good friend do????

I should clarify - the reason that the holiday is important - it is possibly the last opportunity that her DH will have to see and spend time with his grandmother who lives abroad. It is a very expensive and time dependent trip which they may not get the opportunity to do again, and it is very emotionally important to her dh (it's not just that he want a beach holiday!!!!)

Do you have any reason to think that she is clueless about age and declining fertility?

No I wouldn't, unless she asked for my advice. Personally I think you're right in what you're saying. If she's nearing 40, she shouldn't be holding off and waiting to ttc. However, it's up to her and it's not your concern, however well your intentions. Just leave her to it.

She knows fertility is declining with age. She's not an idiot. It's between her and her DH and decidedly not your business. Leave it alone.

Absolutely not, no. They’ve presumably decided the two of them whether to try and when to try.

I think kind communication about facts is good between friends. I think you assuming you know better than her is wrong.
My youngest was conceived at 37 first time of trying. Fertility does drop off but may not be a significant problem for her if she’s not had problems before. Not saying goodbye to Grandma could have huge long term impact on her husband and consequently her marriage.

Since I have decided to ttc seriously this makes you sound like an arse. Sorry.

Postponing TTC doesn't mean she isn't taking it seriously. Keep your beak out.

If it was me I would cautiously make sure she was aware of the statistics. You're right, it could be much harder, but it might not, and it’s being aware of the possible risk taken in waiting - but no one knows what will actually happen. Some people get pregnant easily in their late thirties- for others it’s too late and it doesn’t happen.

In fact I am in a similar position- I have a friend who is approaching 40 and wants to wait a little longer- I have had this chat with her, but ultimately it’s up to her.

I’d assume she knew it might be harder to get pregnant in her late 30s than late 20s, but she’s made a reasonable decision about this holiday. Unless you have some reason to think she has no idea fertility declines with age of just leave her to it.

Also, there’s a lot of scaremongering about fertility and age. It does decline as you get older but it doesn’t drop off a cliff in your 30s. If she’s had several children and no fertility problems before, chances are low she’ll be infertile at 38.

Good grief, it's really none of your business.

^^this

I conceived without any difficulty in my early 40s. Everyone in my NCT group was late 30s and over.

She knows the stats (many of which are very out of date) and has the info, and has decided to prioritise.

You sound as if you are desperate for her to do what you do, at the same time.

Hey Everyone, thanks so much for replying - Wow - very glad I asked here first!!! I think you are all dead right on reflection. And it's probably totally enough for me to just share my own experiences.

The only reason I assume that she may not be aware is because she and I have had MANY conversations about ttc in the past few years, and I would have said that a few months ago we were on the same page (a general assumption that because we had children in our early 30s, we'd have no problems regardless of timing).

@scrubthedecks Yes, it would be nice to do it with her, that's true (but also a bit unrealistic!) - but my feelings of concern come from the fact that she broke down in tears when telling me that they were going to wait - and her very very strong (and long held) desire to have a third child. I'm not entirely sure that she does know the stats - from previous conversations.

@HannahHut Sorry if that was unclear - I meant that I personally was trying seriously compared to my own personal 'not really trying, and not too bothered approach' that I've had for the past year or so - not at all comparing her to me. Didn't mean to sound like an arse....but thanks for sharing that with me.

It's only my business because I love her to bits!

BUT, my gut felt that it wasn't right to bring it up... just thought it was worth asking a bunch of people who may have found themselves in a similar situation.

martamay the implication was that you were taking it seriously and your friend was not.

@HannahHut yep, sure. I'd edit the post if I could to make sure it was clearer. I'd never suggest that.

Hmmm I'm inclined to agree with others, that really she and her husband have made their decision and would have discussed at length. I'm sure they've probably even discussed "but what would happen if it never happened because it was too late". So I don't think you should raise her decision to delay ttc.

However, I think that because you and her have a very open and close relationship and have discussed this sort of thing a lot over the years, that it would be ok to say how much harder you are finding it to conceive this time around, but light touch. After all why shouldn't you say this to your close friend who you discuss everything with? In my circle this would completely be within the norm.

@MaverickSnoopy spot on. Yep, I think me sharing my own fears and feelings about what's going on, which I naturally do anyway - it's really enough! And yes, I'm sure that they have discussed it at length as a couple. There is nothing worse than unwanted 'advice' from well meaning friends..... we get plenty of that anyway lol!!

I think maybe I've just binge-read too many long and lengthy mn threads in the last few days about ttc in late 30s/40s , about secondary infertility - where many people talk honestly about how they wished they had prioritised things differently. It can be a little confronting to think about, but I guess that is part of the process.

It is all part of the process and what's to say that the people who have great difficulty conceiving in their late 30s / early 40s wouldn't have had some trouble conceiving if ttc earlier on.

The other thing is, what if she's not entirely happy in waiting, and "calling her on it" just upsets her. Sometimes you do reach a compromise in marriage and you're not always happy about it and if that is the case then I'm sure you don't want to upset her.

But people posting regularly on threads about TTC are more likely to be those having difficulty with it. You’re not hearing from the women who were TTC in their late 30s and got pregnant without trouble. NHS gives these figures:

aged 19 to 26 – 92% will conceive after 1 year and 98% after 2 years
aged 35 to 39 – 82% will conceive after 1 year and 90% after 2 years

So fertility does decline but not to ‘panic stations cancel the holiday’ level for most women. Odds are good that both you and her will have the babies you want.

Leave well alone. It is her life and she has to make the decision along with her DH as to what is best for their family. It's not any of your business.

I agree with the people who say she must know this and she'd probably think you thought she was an idiot if you said it yourself, even though that's obviously not your intention, and with the people who say you might be overstating the risks a bit.

"Since I have decided to ttc seriously" doesn't actually sound like you're being rude about your friend by the way. It's very factual. Obviously someone who is not planning to have unprotected sex for over a year is not ttc at all, let alone ttc seriously.

As long as you know she had an awetness fertility reduces I really wouldn't worry.

I'm 32 with reduced ovarian reserve and had two rounds of ivf to get pregnant - I've made a point of saying to all my friends about fertility reducing and I've been surprised - one educated friend said she thought fertility dropping after 35 was a rumour! I clarified not but she and her husband are still in no rush's

But I felt I did my bit! I wouldn't hammer home the point but maybe drop some hints about it reducing. Sounds like she had other things going on - maybe she doesn't feel as strongly about a third child as you do?!

@hoping2018 Congrats on getting pregnant! Thanks for your reply. Actually one reason for my concern is that she broke down in tears whilst dicussing it with me - and I know that she is (and has been for a long time) very set and determined that she wants three children and would be devastated if that wasn't a reality for her. More so than me.

I do think that I had an abstract sense of facts (fertility decreases with age, in the most basic sense) but until it became personally relevant to my situation, I did not really look at it in any detail, and like I said before, both her and I were under the assumption that because we had two children previously, that we were immune to the effect of age on fertility until we hit menopause (Me personally, I had this idea that it might only get a bit harder after 40 - who knows why I had that particular age in my head) - Yes this may sound like we are both stupid , but it's pretty easy to be blinkered and optimistic if it that's what suits you at the time.
I also think that people on this conception board are quite cluey about conception - but out there in the world beyond conception boards, people's knowledge is variable.

I agree that I may have been overwhelmed by the risks - but it is true that my chances of conceiving naturally are reducing year by year. Now that I know this fact, I am prepared that it may happen, or it may not and I'm ok with it. If I was 100% set on having a child (as my friend is) and wanted to give myself the best chance possible, I may have appreciated someone talking honestly to me about it earlier, so that I could plan for the future in a more informed way. For example, there is no reason that they could not do the trip whilst she is pregnant, (if it happened for her quickly ) - her husband just felt that it would be inconvenient - there is no reason that he could not go on the trip alone, but he thought it would be nice to do it together.

I'm still not going to stick my oar in - just share my experience with her....

Definitely leave well alone...even for a very close friendship that would definitely be way overstepping the mark and really intrusive. It sounds like you don’t think your friend is very intelligent and won’t have looked into it herself. And like another poster said that possibly your concern is not doing this at the same time (although tbh even if she postpones a year she still might be pg before you...no one can predict how long these things take!).
I’m 40yrs and lying next to my first DS who’s 7mths old, it took us 4mths to conceive him, and we’re hoping to try for a sibling at the end of the year.
Good luck to both of you but please don’t put that pressure on your friend, they’ve decided as a family what they’re doing and it really is none of your business.

I once told my friend to not the a third, yet.

Because she asked me and was struggli g with the decision. The reason I told her she would be mad to was

Her husband was being a dick and not be f an equal parent
She would have to a have given up work and
They were strugglingly financially as it was with 2 kids. Having a baby and giving up work would have made that worse
Her 3 bed house was already crossed with her, he dh, her disabled mum and 2 kids. The kids bedroom was really small and no room for a third one.

She is fairly young and could have another in 5 years and still be around 30.

I had no horse in the race. I am older and definitely finished having kids.

To me it sounds like you want her to ttc now to justify your intensity around your own ttc .

There's no chance she doesn't know fertility declines, slightly, as you get older.