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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

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Immune /natural killer cell treatment when ttc or pregnant (aka the 18th pred thread!)

999 replies

Hula2 · 22/12/2015 20:35

This is a thread for those diagnosed with high or very high natural killer cells and trying to concieve or are pregnant and taking steroids/intralipids etc

Newcomers very welcome

OP posts:
Tumtimes1 · 16/02/2016 21:20

Hey all - the scan went well thank you for asking. Baby measured at 17.5mm so measuring 8w 2 and heart rate was strong. I was so nervous but the sonographer was really reassuring and nice.

Rah! Roll on next scan which is on Monday X

Hope you're all well. X

Snoopysimaginaryfriend · 16/02/2016 21:55

So glad to hear it all went well tumtimes, one day at a time you're going to make it! Smile

Seekingmiracles · 16/02/2016 22:02

Glad it all went well tumtimesSmile.
Hope Monday's goes as well as todays. One day at a time.

Drttc · 17/02/2016 07:04

Yay! Happy your scan went well Tumtimes. As everyone said, one milestone at a time.

Tryingno1 · 17/02/2016 08:44

Great news tumtimes :)

Seeking hope ur holding up!!!! Xxx

Seekingmiracles · 17/02/2016 08:54

I'm doing ok thanks trying and drttc, just trying to forget about it as much as possible! Lol! Time feels like it's stopped. I've got so far to go... Confused

billy15 · 17/02/2016 11:12

Great news tumtimes

seeking how far are you now? When's your first scan?

annaif · 17/02/2016 11:31

Hi everyone, can I ask you lovely ladies if anyone is on DHEA and Co10cq and what doses please?
I have recently been diagnosed with an auto immune compensated hypothyroidism and have started taking selenium and thyroxine (alongside a very long list of other vitamins and supplements) daily, but before I start adding more pills to my daily pill popping routine, I wanted to get some thoughts and feedback.
Some people claim that both are used to improve egg quality- is that correct? Hmm

billy15 · 17/02/2016 11:59

I think it's they for egg quality. My acupuncturist suggested dhea although I've not started it yet as my cycle was off so I didn't want to add anything. I took cq10 for 1 month and got bfp but ended in chemical. I'm sorry I can't remember what dose I took but prob just recommended on bottle. I'll prob start on both again but not sure what dose atm. I'm mainly concerned it'll mess with my cycle.

Drttc · 17/02/2016 12:14

Hi Annaif, I've never taken DHEA as I think it it's more common in IVF? Not sure. Many of us are on Co10cq and the general rule is that you should be on it for 3 months for it to improve egg quality.

Drttc · 17/02/2016 12:15

Oh and my dose was first month 300 mg daily, then down to 200 mg daily.

annaif · 17/02/2016 12:30

Thank you ladies; who recommended that high dose Drttc?
And billy, why would they mess up your cycle?
I have also tried acupuncture for 6 months to sort out my messed up cycle when I was late in conceiving baby #2 and it did sort it- ended up losing the baby at 20 weeks though :(
I remember also taking Agnus Cactus in the first half of each cycle to normalize it and then took it again before pregnancy #3 (also a miscarriage) as well as pure royal jelly (for improvement of fertility)
Having taken lots of stuff in the past which artificially claim to help with egg quality/fertility and ending up in miscarriages every time I've done it, I have started getting a bit paranoid/skeptical as to whether all these supplements are artificially boosting up eggs which are destined to fail if left in their own devices??! Does this sound totally bonkers?
I have already ordered two boxes of Co10CQ on the recommendation of lots of ladies in the forum but I am a bit hesitant to take it as it wasn't prescribed by a doctor or a specialist therapist
What do you think?

Drttc · 17/02/2016 12:53

Good point Annaif- I'm not sure how I decided my dose. I think it was reading up on other recurrent miscarriage women's dosage? Stick to whatever is said to be safe/recommended!

Seekingmiracles · 17/02/2016 13:35

Hi Anna,
I was taking both DHEA 75mg (micronized is the best form) and 300mg CoQ10 (ubiquinol version is better absorbed) based on research from the 'It starts with an egg' book. In it there is a plan for ivf, recurrent miscarriage or those just wishing to improve chances. All varying slightly. I had a chromosomal abnormality with my last mc so wanted to make sure I gave my body the best chance. I've been taking them since July. Also gave dh 100mg CoQ10 to help his swimmers. Hope this helps.

Bully I'm still only 4+5!! I'm giving myself little milestones to tick off (hopefully) - 6 weeks, first scan (at 6+5) etc... Hoping it'll make the time pass a bit quicker!

Drttc · 17/02/2016 14:56

Seeking I can so relate to how torturously slow that wait was. I was going mad!

waitingimpatient · 17/02/2016 16:17

Hello
I wondered if you would be able to help me? Iam completely confused about immune issues and tests/treatment and cannot work out what to think/do for my FET this month and I could really do with someone explaining it to me in simple terms...

I have secondary infertility. Had mild IVF last April (no transfer for ohss risk) and a 3 day embryo transferred in a FET cycle (natural) last oct which failed

I was diagnosed hypothyroid last feb TSH was 4.8 at highest but on Levothyroxine the level is ok now. I do however have anti thyroid antibodies (thyroglobulin positive at 176.4IU/L but normal thyroid per oxidase antibodies at 12.64) as I have thyroid antibodies I've been told this cycle I should have aspirin clexabe and possibly steroids ?
Here are my questions and sorry if they are silly but I dont understand

  1. did my possible nk cells become activated when my thyroid problems started ? I know in 2012 and at all other tsh tests previously my TSH was ok and no antibodies. Does it mean the thyroid antibodies caused nk cells ?

  2. how do these medications work/help? And do you think I need steroids as well as the aspirin and blood thinning injection. I've never had a clotting problem so why do I need them or does it do something else apart from thinning blood?

I was all for doing this cycle with just progesterone but the more I read the more confused I get but also the more I keep seeing links between thyroid problems starting and activation of nk cells ?? Is that correct ? In that case I do need to take what is recommended and just because my body was ok before doesn't mean it is now?

I'm so confused !

Seekingmiracles · 17/02/2016 19:28

Hi waiting, sorry you're having Togo through ivf and immune issues. It's a tough battle.
Have you had your Nk cells checked? I'm not too sure about correlation between TSH and anti thyroid antibodies. What have your clinic said/ recommended?
As far as I understand the steroids suppress your immune system so that the Nk cells are more in line with 'normal', therefore not working against the pregnancy. Not sure taunts entirely accurate but that's as much as I want to know. All I know is that Dr Shehata has had incredible success with his treatment protocol and that I am willing to try just about anything to stay pregnant.
I hope you are able to make an informed decision regarding your treatment for your next cycle.
Trying may be able to help further as she's very clued up with it all.

Where are you in your cycle now trying? Are you yet to have af before stims? X

waitingimpatient · 17/02/2016 19:32

My clinic are treating with steroids and clexane as well this time as I had failed implantation last time with a top grade embryo, perfect TSH level and thick (15mm) lining and we used embryo glue and everything looked great. They said the issue is implantation and that we need to try steroids and clexane as well as aspirin and progesterone

I'm just not sure as I haven't had tests for nk cells so I worry I will be having unnecessary meds and could that potentially reduce my chances if I dont actually need them. It's so hard to make a decision !

Seekingmiracles · 17/02/2016 19:44

I don't think the combination of drugs will lower your chances - I think it's quite a proactive treatment protocol considering they don't know your Nk levels. There is VERY small risk to the baby by taking steroids, so hopefully this combination will be just what is needed.
I think a lot of clinics blindly keep doing the same old protocols time after time without much else to offer even after repeated failed cycles. I know numerous people who've had a number of failed cycles yet their clinics don't offer anything beyond 'the norm'.
If I was you I think I'd just trust in the clinic and throw anything they feel might work at it.

Tryingno1 · 17/02/2016 19:54

Waiting I'm having Ivf with immune tx. Except my issue is rec miscarriage and male factor if why we need ivf.

If u have thyroid antibodies it suggests u ahve autoimmune issues which nk are closely linked to. So it makes it more likely that u have nk issues. Steroids lower nk levels so they don't attack the little bean trying to implant!

Clexane and asprin help with clotting but clexane has been shown to help the early placenta grow well and embed properly. A lot of clinics use it despite not having an ivf issue. So I'm on it too.

I'm doing now my next ivf cycle at Argc with
Pred
Asprin
Clexane
Progesterone - bum and injections !
Intralipids or ivig depending on my nk cells

Once u have 3mc and 2/3 ivf cycles clinics start wondering why and usually turn to immune issues. It's great ur clinic are open to it as some aren't as it's still a lot of unkonwn and undiscovered and evolving part of medicine. But the success of many suggests there is def something in there

Buy the book is my body baby friendly it explains it all!

Seeking yep af late! The nasal spray down Reg can delay it. When it starts I'm picking my bags and moving to the big smoke! I wish is would hurry up I feel like I rem waiting forever for this cycle! I saw them back in August!

Tryingno1 · 17/02/2016 19:58

Ps waiting the immune tests can be over a grand to get done so if ur clinic are happy to treat empirically I think that's great for the wallet!

Out of interest, I saw a prog of a lady with 8 rec miscarriages she was only in her late 20s and the clinic were anti pred but didn't know wot to do with her so have it to her without any testing and she had her baby! I know ur issue isn't rmc but it shows there is a lot of unknown in the immune and infertility world that pred may help with!

Saying that I've mc on pred before so it's not always the magic pill!

Seekingmiracles · 17/02/2016 20:04

Bloody typical trying, you wait so long and then the little witch can't even turn up on time!! Hope she rears her ugly head soon so you can crack on with everything.

I

waitingimpatient · 17/02/2016 20:20

Thankyou this is all really helpful. I was getting so confused ! Are the side effects from prednisone as horrible as it sounds?

Seekingmiracles · 17/02/2016 20:31

I cannot say I've really had any side effects from the pred. Although dh said I have got a bit of the 'moon face' going on! But that could just be fat!

Tryingno1 · 17/02/2016 20:39

I never had any!