soy isoflavones or agnus castnus?

[Vap0]

Hi

Can anyone tell me more?

I am waiting to be prescribed clomid by my doctor. I had a HyCoSy a couple of weeks ago and he felt I would ovulate this month but have tested every day and nothing, so now to wait for my next cycle. I have an appointment booked in to see the doctor again in about june (he said I would be prescribed clomid at that appointment) but being very impatient and knowing I'm not ovulating I need something to help me during the 3 more fertile months following a HyCoSy.

So, I bought myself some soy isoflavones online which will arrive soon which I have read a lot about and understand can help you ovulate.
Yesterday my SIL gave me a pack of agnus castus saying a friend of hers who had ovulation problems (after depo like me) and this made her ovulate and she is now pregnant.
I'm in a quandary now.
Which do I take?
Will they mess me up more?
Should I just wait for the clomid?
Is it ok to come straight off one of these and immediately use clomid or will I have to wait?
I understand you take soy for only a few days but take agnus castus every day, is this correct?
With the difference in days you take then it makes me think the soy will be more effective as you take less, so in theory it must be stronger, is this a plausible suggestion?
Just don't know what to do now....
Help

Have you had a name change?
Do you think you'll stick to the same dates you took soy last time?
I'm not planning on telling the docs that I took soy last cycle, I don't want anything to jeapordise them giving me clomid.
Still have 4.6lbs to lose for them to prescribe it, (bmi currently 29.7 but they want me at 29.1) doing my best to get it off, hoping if I'm a couple of lbs over they won't turn me away.
I'm really hoping the 5-9 is what they say.
More importantly I'm hoping AF stays away until tomorrow, cramping all day, I'll be so gutted if she makes an appearance today as I'll be delayed by a whole month....
Fingers crossed
Hope the soy helps you this cycle.

Yes stuck to the same days. Have watery cm today which is a bit strange at cd7. Finished this round of si last night.
Yes I can see why you wouldn't tell. I work on science research and my theory is that I'd rather tell than keep quiet and maybe there is some terribly bad interaction between the two that I don't know about. Probably not so I wouldn't stress, but I do generally trust people who know more about drugs than me. :) hence why I will say I took it and say what I think it did.
Did AF come or was it something else? Hpt?

Still no af. Been testing like a crazy person - every day. I wasn't expecting anything until sun, it's the app on my phone which decided af should have arrived yesterday. I will probably wait until I have the prescription in my hand and then tell him - just in case.
I'm not sure if that isn't good cm, I don't really get any anymore.
I hope your lp is extended this month.

Stupid me went and told the doctor I took soy! DP suggested I should. So now he is not interested. No clomid for me. I have to go 3 months without ovulating before he will give it me. He also said that if anything soy should stop you ovulating and disrupt a cycle so he feels I ovulated in spite of the soy... Well let's see what happens this month. I'm so stupid for taking it when I had an appointment booked. I couldn't just sit around waiting. If i'd just held on another month then I'd have my clomid and would be on my way to starting a family.
Whatever you do, don't tell doctors you took soy! It will only slow you down.
Will update on whether I ovulate without anything this month and then will make a decision on whether to go back to soy in June...

Oh no vap! No! That's so terrible! I'm so very sorry. I Dont know what the other interactions might be between soy and clomid although I do know that hyper ovarian syndrome developing is a distinct possibility. If you took the clomid on top of the soy and it made you release eg four eggs all of which got fertilised you'd stand an enormous chance of miscarriage or other complications so I think the doctors are very nervous about it. I know it is awful and I do feel awful for you (trust me I know!) but I think you did the right thing telling. And it was a decision for both you and your dh because any complications will effect him too. I hope you and your dh are okay today.
Fwiw it is true that soy can work counter actively and prevent ovulation completely. That's because soy sometimes suppresses the oestrogen receptors. So your body thinks it isn't making oestrogen so makes even more until you stop taking the soy. But it can also stop the oestrogen from being released in first place as it confuses your hormone producing systems into believing that there is too much oestrogen in the body and so it will result in anovultion. Clomid is molecularly designed to ONLY work on the receptors, while soy works generally across the whole body hence the chance it could go the other way too. However, mostly it seems that people's personal experiences are that it helps stimulate ovulation rather than suppressing it. But it is a risk and I guess for doctors who know that clomid is a far better option they would consider it a risk not worth taking.
Sorry for the long post. I do feel for you so I'm just babbling on hoping to make you feel better about waiting for the clomid. You could try get a private fertility clinic appointment. They might be more inclined to prescribe it sooner?
But wait aren't you still waiting for af anyway? Could you be pregnant?

Hi ladies. I ov early it seems and have been told that soy can delay ov as well as bring it forward. I know nothing though so any wisdom would be much appreciated :)

Hi night
As far as I know if you take it quite late it can delay ov? Eg cd5-9 rather than eg cd3-7?

Of course, I haven't looked into it too much. It's always a risk because it isn't explicitly formulated to do something in particular (like eg clomid or certain types of progesterone etc) although as I understand it if you have regular cycles it will more often than not tend to mess them up by delaying ov. Which may be a good thing if it allows for more maturation of an egg.
Question is if it doesn't delay ov for you and God forbid actually brings it even more forward, would you be comfortable with the risk you took in having wasted a month? I would have been irritated if the soy last month pushed my ov/oh surge even further back but was willing to "lose" a month so to speak as my cycles were totally unable to support a pregnancy anyway. I wasnt even sure I was ovulating either so it was a very small risk in that way. But if it brought it even more forward for you would you be okay with that and feel it was worth trying anyway? I would hope that if you took it late it would help push it back but who knows until you do it!

You are right plum really don't want to bring it any more forward! Am also worried as I have heard it dries up CM and am desperately trying to increase mine. Will see when I ov this month and then make a decision. Many thanks for the advice :) p.s is there a thread you aren't on?

aux hi, nope AF came and went, currently cd8.
I wasn't planning on using both the clomid and soy this month. I was waiting for the clomid.
So on nothing this month, just waiting to see if anything just happens naturally, you never know month 20 off depo may be long enough for my body to get back to normal.....
Not sure what to do yet if I don't.
Private is a possibility although by the sound of all of the scans I'd think it will cost between £1.5 - £2k per cycle which is an awful lot.
Soy is another possibility which is more likely what I'll choose to do and after the 3 months I'll go in and tell them what they want to hear so I can get my clomid.
Not holding my breath on ovulating myself, should know by this time next week.
How are you getting on with your soy?
Do you think you'll be lucky this cycle?
night one thing the doctor said to me was that cm is not necessary at all, I told him that I have had none all year and it was bothering me as I understand it's importance but he totally disagreed.
Are you thinking of taking soy?

I'm almost quite happy I'm on nothing this month as it will show me whether the soy actually made me ovulate last month or if the depo has just finally worn off.....

Fingers crossed for a positive opk

Oh damn I wrote a long post and then accidentally reloaded the page.

Also wrote a witty reply to the thread-flitting but I'll be damned if I can replicate that now!
night I took epo this cycle as I read the same about cm but soy didn't really seem to make a difference and neither did epo. I never get masses over extended periods, usually one day maybe of a lot and then just a small small amount on other days. I think cm is less important on the scale than ov. Preseed might be a good option for you anyway?
vap I'm sorry AF came in the end. I really did have my fingers crossed for you and thought you would be lucky. I feel positive about conceiving this cycle but less so because of the soy and more so because I got a progesterone prescription to take after ov as I foolishly think that will fix eeee-eeeverything and then I'll obviously just get pregnant right away innit. Really just want ov to come already!
So far the soy this cycle hasn't brought ov/lh surge forward by the same amount as last cycle, but I'm okay with that. As log as I ov again (as in pretty sure I did last cycle for the first time).

aux so what are your thoughts on soy? Do you think it works? Or do you think it was a coincidence as my dr said...? really hoping for the coincidence as it may mean I'm more likely to ovulate this month on my own
What does the progesterone do? Who gave it to you, go dr or fertility dr? Maybe that counteracts the soy? Did you tell your dr about the soy when you got your prescription? Sorry for being so nosey, I would try anything to get my bfp!
Fingers crossed for you this month!

Update! If anyone is still following!
So this month I didn't take any soy as was hoping to be given clomid. He wouldn't prescribe it because I ovulated in April. I felt my ovulation in April was down to the soy, Dr said it was a coincidence and it was probably just my body getting back to normal after Depo. So a "clean" month for me and I have ovulated all on my own!
Yahoo!
Perhaps the soy did help last month or perhaps the Depo has finally worn off (20 months later) but just thought I'd update for those unsure about taking soy and wanting as much info as possible.
aux any updates?

Also, I won't be using my soy anymore if anyone wants it?