soy isoflavones or agnus castnus?

[Vap0]

Hi

Can anyone tell me more?

I am waiting to be prescribed clomid by my doctor. I had a HyCoSy a couple of weeks ago and he felt I would ovulate this month but have tested every day and nothing, so now to wait for my next cycle. I have an appointment booked in to see the doctor again in about june (he said I would be prescribed clomid at that appointment) but being very impatient and knowing I'm not ovulating I need something to help me during the 3 more fertile months following a HyCoSy.

So, I bought myself some soy isoflavones online which will arrive soon which I have read a lot about and understand can help you ovulate.
Yesterday my SIL gave me a pack of agnus castus saying a friend of hers who had ovulation problems (after depo like me) and this made her ovulate and she is now pregnant.
I'm in a quandary now.
Which do I take?
Will they mess me up more?
Should I just wait for the clomid?
Is it ok to come straight off one of these and immediately use clomid or will I have to wait?
I understand you take soy for only a few days but take agnus castus every day, is this correct?
With the difference in days you take then it makes me think the soy will be more effective as you take less, so in theory it must be stronger, is this a plausible suggestion?
Just don't know what to do now....
Help

I can completely understand your desire for something to help you conceive but Soy Isoflavones and Agnus Castus do two very different things.
If you are waiting to be prescribed Clomid by he doctor, you are needing to have an extra burst of oestrogen at the start of your cycle to help kick start ovulation. Soy Isoflavones do work in the same way so worth investigating (although wait until your next period to start them). Soy Isoflavones are part of HRT during menopause for this very reason.
Agnus Castus works for a different issue to you and therefore, I'd steer clear of them for now. They are thought to regulate different hormones, not just oestrogen, throughout the cycle which is not the issue you have (if Clomid is being prescribed)

I must add that I am currently 36 weeks pregnant with a Soy Isoflavones baby (my first after TTC for a year) and it helped up my oestrogen at the start of my cycle (BBT was always too high) which caused me to have a v strong ovulation on CD14 (was always at least a week and a half if not more, later than that) and in turn gave me a good progesterone boost to help support Bean.
I would either wait for the Clomid prescription which will be regulated medically or take a risk with Soy Isoflavones next cycle. I personally would leave Agnus Castus for now.

Good luck!!

Hello Kitty

Thank you for such an informative response. Congratulations on your bump

I'll take your advice and leave the Angus castus for now and have a try with the soy.

Would you mind telling me how long you took the soy before conceiving?

Also, what days and amounts did you take?

I'll also try to bring my appointment forward or book privately if they won't.

Thanks again!

Hi!

It was actually the first cycle I tried Soy Isoflavones that I got pregnant and stayed pregnant! However, like Clomid, it may take a 2 or 3 cycles. I took Soy Isofavones from CD2-6 (50mg, 100mg, 100mg, 200mg then 200mg) I had 50mg tablets so depending on your dosage, adjust slightly. Never go over 200mg!
I took them just before bed so had little side effects. I did get a bit drier CM-wise but on ovulation day, had no problems there
I DTD SMEP style as well.

Hope it is successful for you and if not, Clomid may very well do the trick!

Excellent!
Thanks.
100mg tablets at the ready so will try 100, 100, 100, 200, 200
Fingers crossed

Hi kitty nice to run into you again. Good advice again. I'm still planning on soy next cycle if this one doesn't take with another random (an)ovulation and five day lp. Was thinking cd3-7 to minimize twinning risk. I notice clomid is almost always prescribed cd5-9, I think for that reason?
Are those doses you mention the sort of standard recommendations? Why increase the dose over the few days?
SMep? have never asked when I've seen it I suddenly realise!

By the way, the only soy iso I could get in the little village pharmacy was specifically targeted for menopausal women and a non generic brand. I think the dose is 35mg. I presume it is all the same whether it says for menopause or not?

Hi aux

I bought mine on amazon

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000GY76L6

From what I have read on here I understand it is used for menopause mainly but can help with ovulation problems too.

As for the risk of twins, I would love twins so no problem here

Good luck to you. When will you start taking them? I'll be stating around 15th April. Fingers and toes crossed for both of us

Hi vap
Twins yes. :) In theory great, but altjough I've never had any mc or suchlike, twins = higher chance of them, potential caesarian much higher too, low birth weight for babies, and as I'm older all those risks are higher anyway to start off with. I do love the idea of twins don't we all! Always so jealous of twins when we were at school as it looked so much fun. And you'd get raising two infants out of the way in one go! but if I'm messing around with my system I'd rather just maximize chances of having one healthy babe and pregnancy and no surgery for me! Caesarian scares me a lot more than natural delivery!
Sorry not lecturing there, just musing on my own reasons.
Yes, was hoping it would be the same even though the "marketing aim" is for menopause. And that there isn't anything else odd in there then?
If AF shows tomorrow after another 5day LP then I'll start immediately on cd3 on Tuesday. Otherwise whenever she comes. Hoping of course she doesn't come at all and I get a bfp this month!

Hi auxiliaryauroch!
The idea of increasing dose is to ease the body into a higher dose of oestrogen but it's only a theory.
The version of your Soy Isoflavones is absolutely fine! Same stuff
I only did CD2-6 as was impatient but CD3-7 is absolutely fine as is CD5-9. I would go over that though, if ovulation was usually late anyway.
SMEP was introduced by a Deanna Roy (sp?) after multiple miscarriages but I think is still a nice 'plan' that is easy to follow for anyone.
I am keeping everything crossed that you both get your precious BFPs v soon!!

Sorry-that first but should read 'into helping your body into producing a higher dose of oestrogen, gradually' Soy Isoflavones just trick your body into thinking it is producing no oestrogen so your body works harder to give you a better dose!

And thanks for the link vap. I'll amazon next time then if it doesn't work this time around.
Thanks for useful info kitty. Always good to have experience on hand! I think I'll probably have to do something odd with increasing the dose based on them being 35mg tabs of I remember correctly I am too lazy to walk to the bathroom to go check!
I just read the smep website comments and apparently we smepped perfectly this month (3 days of DTD then one day of then another DTD around the positive opk mark) completely by accident. It's a siii-iign!
Good luck with the last four weeks. With my first I didn't take enough advantage of doing ME stuff in those four weeks and really wish I had. Go to the movies every day. Just sit quietly by the window and stare at the world. Go for window shopping and long lazy coffees. Make many uninterrupted phone calls. Drink many cups of still hot tea. See your friends and play board games or cards. Wash your hair a lot. Spend time talking with your partner if you have one about non-baby things like art and politics and oceanography or whatever tickles your fancy. Omg I could go on and on and on. Just make good use of the time for YOU!!!!!!!!! Me? Jealous of your prebirth state? Exhausted from childcare and lack of sleep one year on still? Never!

Thanks aux! Will follow your instructions to the latter

Hello all.

I was wondering if there is any problem in taking them both?
I have been on Agnus Castus a few months already and it has helped with short luteal phase. Now having 28 day cycles. And was considering starting soy too.
Or will I just mess things up?

Appreciate any advice xoxo

Hello Iwantcandi
It is advised not to take Agnus Castus when on Clomid, as they work against each other. Therefore, I wouldn't advise taking Agnus Castus with Soy Isoflavones. Sorry.
Glad you have 28 day cycles though-that's good

Thanks Kitty. Now not sure which to take as Agnus gave me a 28 day cycle (whether that may have just happened with time post pill?!)
Or will soy get me the BFP?
Hmmm ??

iwantcandi
Are you temping? Maybe stick with the Agnus Castus for a few more cycles and DTD lots and track your ovulation in the mean time. If you are ovulating well and your cycles are a good length, Soy won't be needed.
Remember, your partner might be the one with issues too
Good luck!

Hi kitty

I was temping but stopped as was interfering with mine and DH's sleep and tbh stressing me out so just using OPKs.
I think I ovulate regularly but started Agnus as my cycles were only 23-25 days. As that has lengthened with Agnus will stick with it and if no luck will swap to soy.
Thanks for advice

kitty can I check with you please? This thread you said you started with 50x1, then 100x2, then 200x2. But on last years one thread just a bit after you conceived you said 100x1, 150x2, 200x2. Any thoughts on which to go for? Am now starting tomorrow as AF did arrive at 6dpo after ov on cd25.

Oh crap-did I get it wrong?! Stupid poor memory brain-go with the second lot of stats then as am sure that is right -start with 100mg'ish first, I really should have kept a record-sorry aux !!
Bollox to AF making an appearance but new hope for this cycle. Will be cheering you on!!

Good luck iwantcandi as well-am sure your BFP is just around the corner (but I do sympathise with the hell that is TTC xx)

No problem. I'm trying to work out the average for what people seem to take and yours confused me a bit! I'll go with whatever I can make up from 35mg tabs that starts at aroun 80-100 on the first day. Although really nervous I'm doing the wrong thing here too.

One thing to note aux is that if Soy Isoflavones weren't to work in a cycle (I'd try them for three cycles as in average, should have enough time to work fully then), as soon as you stop taking them, your cycles will go back to how they were before
Xx

Aux - did you ovulate this month or is it too early to say? I started on the soy on 11/04/15 with the following amounts (thanks kitty for all the info)
100x1, 150x2, 200x2. I'm looking forward to testing this month and really have my fingers crossed that I ovulate this month. If i do it will be the 1st time in about 13 years! Here's hoping

Vap
I am only on cd9 (cd2-6 for me but af arrived overnight so wasn't sure what to do and took the si at night anyway so might also be counted as cd3-7) and I've been "ovulating" (if indeed so which my doctor doubts) only at cd25. If I suddenly miraculously ov sooner I guess it will be anywhere from cd14 onwards only? I'm chilling out about it. Did an opk yesterday with basically no line so doesn't look like it'll happen tomorrow or anything. Good luck! I reallyh hope it works for you!

Aux - best of luck...
Have you had positive opk's in the past then? But very late on?
Hope it works for you, fingers crossed
Here's hoping for me too
I'll be in touch as when I have a positive opk (hopefully)....
Hope you can keep me updated too.
Hope soy holds the key

Vap yes. I have positive OPKs very very late in the cycle indicating surges but probably no actual ovulation to accompany it. No ready eggs or whatever. Also the lp bugger is there, so that if I did ovulate then my lp is way too short to sustain implantation. Who knows what might happen. Let's hope we get a bfp like kitty did!