Grab your Ganeshas and collect your cats: The Elderberry Pavlovas in the Quest for the New Year clusterdiff (thread 25)

[happylass]

The smallprint –
Berries have a strict entrance criteria (TTC #1, over 30, TTC for 12+ months, NO instadiffers, must have a special pot and definitely no mention of baby dust or baby dancing).
Those not abiding by the rules may be escorted from the premises.

beaky hope the stabbing goes OK; it is quite exciting to finally get going!

Gill not long to go.... wishing springyness on your palace Well done with the stats.

HB Sorry it hasn't been a great day for you today, but remember that the two which they put back are the good ones and the ones they didn't put back were just sitting in a petri dish. Like Happy said, plenty of not top grade blastos have resulted in a bfp. All digits crossed for you over the next 2 weeks...

Happy I hope that all of those mature eggs are doing their thing!

Tiger enjoy your few days with the pooch - I know that exhausted feeling, I seem to be out 4 nights a week at the moment doing various things and it does get tiring; I've not managed to be completely off the booze though so I'm very impressed at your will power. I've had two drinks this month .... I'm sure it's even more exhausting throwing a commute in too.

Just dropping in to say hello and belated good luck to HB. They are back in the best place now.

Can I be added to the list please? I'm not sure what as though, maybe an honorable mention or even 'best in show'?

You are definitely worthy of best in show Pipbin ! Nice shiny coat, clear markings and good gait - a worthy winner.

You’ve really been through the mill HB . Make sure you rest up now and let those two scruffy little embies settle in nicely.

Happy - lol at your DH and his reaction to your 11 lovely, mature eggs. That is so funny. Mind you, I often get weirded out by how much I now know about the whole conception process - it’s just actually putting it into practice which is the problem.

Maybe TTC could be my Mastermind subject! Can you imagine being in the big black chair, der-de-de-derrr ...“What is the final phase of the menstrual cycle called?” ”Luteal” “To what does the acronym POAS commonly refer?”….

Thank you for all the support and hugs beautiful Berries. Don’t know where I’d be without you. I am feeling on a more even keel today. I think a good, big, old cry and a bit of a reality check were required. One day at a time is the aim now.

I can understand why are you so excited to start stimming Beaky - you’ve been on a mammoth downreg.

The next step for me is that I start taking norithisterone (sp?) - which I did today which apparently lays the ground to keep eventual follies developing all together at an even pace. Then there’ll be some short stimming with EC expected in the last week of Feb. Then a bit of freezing and take March off to ‘rest’.

Good list Gill . It’s amazing that you did that from memory, please take the Berries threads as your Mastermind subject.
Tiger - enjoy your time with your special girl.

You most certainly can be added to the list Pip and are very worthy of "best in show". Will add you when I do the next update and sorry for the previous omission.

Loving the Mastermind Wild. A Berries TTC round would be amazing. Name the implement used to scan follies? dildocam. Which artist is usually played to encourage jiggy behaviour between eggs and swimmers. Barry White

Wild I love the mastermind specialist subject! My cousin was telling people about someone who'd had iui but she wasn't sure about some of the info etc and I was dying to join in but that would have given it away. Glad you are feeling better too, and great that you can get on with things straight away! I'm sure Happy did the norithisterone(?!) too sorry re spelling.

Pip nice to "see" you, hope you are alright. You definitely should be in the best in show with a nice glossy rosette

Gill not long then, fx for you all goes to plan and the palace is plush and inviting

Loving the idea of the mastermind subject!

Had my Day 6 stimm blood test and dildocam today. Think my lining was 6ish (mm?!) and she called out 3 follies at 11mm on one side and 1 on the other. I insisted on writing down 2 additionals at 10mm as the form had the well known sign for 'greater than OR equal to' 10mm. She reckoned they just wanted those over 10! Ha! at me, getting bothered about whether it's written down or not . Anyway, I was actually quite pleased as they seem quite close together and previously I've had a runaway lead follicle that I always feel makes them trigger me a bit early.

Nurse rang to say looking good and to continue as is (and amazingly I don't have to go back for another blood test and ultrasound until Monday, Day 10 - same day as my intralipid infusion). But I am to start the prednisone steroid tomorrow.

In the meantime MrSmidge has sent me a link to a website about immunology treatments in IVF that suggest it's not a good idea, and now we're both a bit confused and wondering if this is the right thing to do.

Here's the link if you are interested. It's from the dept that licences fertility clinics in the uk so a pretty reputable source. Http:www.hfea.gov.uk/fertility-treatment-options-reproductive-immunology.html

The positive for me is that they did test the actual uterine NK cells, not just those in the blood. But apart from that, the findings sound a bit worrying, especially about the need for them to help produce proper blood flow and placenta between woman and foetus. He reckons we should call AliG to discuss, but he's at work and I'm at home, and her office isn't open on Fridays (or sat or sun!) so I don't think she'd get back to us very quickly. I will see her on Monday for the intralipid infusion but wasn't planning on having MrSmidge with me for that.

Must say, I'm very impressed MrSmidge was looking these things up. Is it really daft that the happiness gained from him being so proactively involved more than outweighs the negative impact of what he found?!

PS I think we should come up with a full list of berry mastermind subject questions, and test our other halves!

PPS if any of the berries have any advice / info from their own FCs about the validity of the treatment for immune issues etc, please holler. (wild aren't you an expert on the subject...? and lumen weren't you keen to get tested? I was perfectly happy with the tests themselves, we're just questioning the actual treatment for it now, and whether the risks to the foetus are worth the potential benefit)

wild I am highly entertained by the Mastermind suggestion, I agree that we know more than I ever thought possible about ttc.

Good list making gill, I agree a Best In Show should be awarded to pip

happy I hope you get good news on your call today, love your dh's comment, poor sod, I sometimes forget how confusing this all is for them as they haven't had the berries to educate them!

hb hope you are relaxing, everyone has said the wise words to you and I know having been through it before you know it all anyway, but that doesn't make it any easier. Fx your 2ww flies by without incident and with a bfp at the end of it.

beaky hope your first injection went ok? The first is always the worst because of the anticipation. I down regged for over 4 weeks on my last cycle to fit into their 'one size fits all ' regime.

smidge I have done a lot of reading about immunes in the past month, reading a very interesting book called Is Your Body Baby Friendly? I have come to the conclusion that they just haven't been able to do enough testing to satisfy sceptics and that the clinics in London who are offering the treatment are getting good results and have been for a while. I am certainly going to look to go down this route in the summer as a last ditch attempt.

AFM, AF rocked up on Monday in full force which has made me grumpy and hungry all week. Not much else to say on ttc really, waiting for my lap & dye date to come through next.

After that epic post I better do some work!

Happy any news on fertilisation?

Smidge glad your scan showed a good few follies with similar progression! We are Monday scan buddies! Although that's my first monitoring dildocam. I would say re the article, someone on here once explained that the NHS (and HEFA) don't recommend certain treatments etc as there is a very stringent procedure as to how much research and testing has to be done before they will accept something whereas private are willing to go off less than the NHS. I haven't read the article yet but I think certainly for me, that I need to trust the experts who are treating me as this is what they have studied for and have gone on to practice, often for many years. At the end of the day I choose to trust them. I do often wonder about some things like! I'm not saying to you not to ask or look into anything further etc, in fact I think the more we can read the better but if it were me, I would follow what they advised especially in the middle of a cycle. I hope that doesn't sound harsh as it's really not meant too. I do totally understand the worry and anxiety things like this cause though.

Glad that you are progressing Beaky this is the exciting bit as you start to see the fruits of your labours.

Wild I absolutely love the mastermind idea - this could be the start of a title of the next thread!

Sounds like everything is heading the right direction Smidge so will continue to keep everything crossed. I haven't looked at the article yet but autoimmune issues are always a little contentious. To be honest I am on the fence and I do think that some clinics are really quick to start using some pretty expensive and unproven treatments. However you cannot deny that some patients respond to steroids etc. we have been told that if we had another implantation failure that we would look at autoimmune issues so......

Happy have been thinking of Barry White (never thought I'd say that) so hope that you have had good news from the clinic and that your embies can continue to day 5

Thank you for all of your words of wisdom and you are right. I am trying to be positive and thinking about embies burrowing down and cells multiplying.

and me gil! Nolly, in limbo following mc, being ignored by FC.

Am reading when I get a mo. Best of luck HB and Happy. normality shoudl resume next week when work settles down into a routine. until then, amigos.

ooh and best of luck smidge too. all sounds great. you're such an expert. I'll def be picking your brains when it comes to my turn...

Smidge I think Lumen and Beaky have nailed it on the immunes question. The tests which have been done are not of the double-blind large sample type that NICE /HFEA needs to see before giving their official approval. However, as Lumen says clinics have been getting good results with immune treatments. Excellent results in fact.

It's important to know that the drugs used are licensed to be used and prescribed by the NHS etc, but the drugs have not gone through the same standard of testing to prove that they are effective in fertility treatment. So doctors can prescribe these drugs for eg. arthritis but NICE guidelines do not recognise them as a fertility treatment.

Having looked at the HFEA article, I wonder how many of those side effects listed are more of a concern for patients using the drugs long term ? It isn't made clear.

I too have Dr Beer's book ( Is Your Body Baby Friendly? ) . I barely understood what it was on about at first, but I learned over time. It details the work of Dr Alan Beer who is, I guess, the father of immunology in fertility treatment.

In the end, as Beaky says, it comes down to having faith in the team treating you. The first consultant I saw seemed very much to take a one-size fits all approach. He seemed pretty disengaged and seemed to reach for the first off the shelf treatment.

The second consultant I saw was totally different. I got the impression that, for him, every infertile couple was a fascinating problem waiting to be solved. Like you I was concerned after reading the HFEA take on immunes, but I knew in my gut that this guy was in no way bullshitting me. And I work in the media, I see a lot of BS believe you me! I felt I was getting the professional opinion of an expert and that was good enough for me.

I hope that helps dear Smidge . And by the way, I just love that you stuck firm on the greater than or equal to sign. Fantastic.

Thank you all for your well thought out views and well put comments, it's really good to hear what you think as I know you'll have done a heap of research and gone through a lot of the same questioning as me! Berries at their finest .

I think you're all probably right that half the issue is the lack of the double-blind (MrSmidge just heard me say double-blind and said 'that's when you're really drunk' ) testing, and the rigour required by the NHS etc before they will back a treatment. Something I suppose I agree with in theory (so am a bit on the fence with you HB), but doesn't mean the treatment doesnt work, just that they haven't yet proven it to required standards I suppose. Also I take your point wild that the drugs themselves are approved for use (heaps of other uses actually, just not infertility) so at least we know they're tried and tested in terms of side effects etc.

As beaky said I guess the point of paying our specialists is to make use of their knowledge and experience! Tbf the fact that AliG only went down this path after doing the proper uterine NK cell testing (rather than just the blood test that this article seems particularly derisive of) makes me feel she is at least tailoring the treatment to what she feels is most appropriate for us.

Really pleased to hear that the London clinics which have been following this sort of approach have been getting good results. I haven't found the equivalent statistics very easy to get hold of here in Sydney so that's welcome information, thanks lumen.

I think the bit about the uterine NK cells helping blood flow between mother and baby freaked me out the most. But at the end of the day, if we didn't follow the suggested approach for this third attempt and got a BFN, I think I'd be kicking myself forever. Ignore the fact that if we get a BFP after following the suggestion but end up with problematic placenta I'll also be kicking myself

Ok. Enough of the me me me posting. Good luck HB. I hope those embies are settling in nicely. Pom Poms at the ready for the implantation dance. And a side shimmy of the get jiggy with it fertilisation bop for happy.

Sorry lumen and nolly are in limbo. It's so frustrating. All this waiting.. Gah!

Hope everyone is looking forward to a good weekend. Tiger are you at the end of week 3 already? Hope it's going well and your new colleagues are proving to be a good bunch.

MrSmidge got the promotion! Yay, v proud. The boss told him today - but a bit of a weird conversation by the sounds of it as he also pointed out they still have some concerns over his ability to lead the team through the restructure blah blah... How odd! Kind of out a dampner on it I think. Back the person or don't, but surely you don't go saying yes we're giving you the job but to be honest we're not sure you're up to the challenge!! Maybe save the 'areas to concentrate on' part of the conversation for the following week

Just found out from my RL friend (who I bumped into at the FC), that she had EC on weds but they didn't get any eggs. She is obviously a bit devastated. It's all so bloody unfair as like everyone on here are lovely people and would make fantastic parents. I've told her about the Berries if she'd like additional support but not sure she'll join.

Yay to Mr Smidge's promotion but agree that they've handled it a bit weirdly.

Congrats to MrSmidge! So sorry to your RL friend gill, this is such a cruel experience.

I had bloods taken this morning for the basic immune testing the nhs have agreed to do. You berries might remember my blood giving issues, so I downed 4 pints of water and 2 cups of tea in the hour before going. She had to dig around a bit for the vein but it wasn't too bad. Then she told me she had to take 7 large vials Thankfully all my liquid consumption meant my blood flowed quite freely. Hope this is all worth it!

Happy Friday everyone and happy birthday to feather if you are reading this thread

Good work Lumen. Must be good to feel like you're doing something useful. Not sure you'd cope with my natural FET regime - this is the 11th consecutive day of bloods (and still counting). Fortunately my veins are good so fairly straightforward.

Unfortunately gill the place we are looking at using does daily bloods for about 4 weeks and then weekly bloods after that, and the tests for the immunes there are 11 vials! I figure the people who work there must be used to people like me

Wowsers!

Omg ladies are you being treated by vampires!?!?! My friend at work went for an appt at argc and they do bloods daily in the first week of treatment then twice daily in the second week!

Smidge! Sounds like the follies are coming along nicely!

Beaky is it your first scan Monday!?!?!

Gill sorry to hear about your friend, that's gutting.

I seem to be hearing about more people in real life who are going through ivf. One lady at work is preggo with twins, my very close colleague mentioned above is just looking at clinics and having tests and another had tramnsger yesterday... Makes you think. I sometimes feel like just announcing it a la Facebook! I heard a thing on the radio one that older childless women are perceived as hard. That's sad isn't it? Perhaps if we could all talk more openly it would be better....

Sorry for my tangent! I've been really upbeat today. I'm spotting now so AF is nearly here. I've booked a baseline scan for Tuesday. Will see the coordinator while I'm there to make sure all is dotted and TS crossed! Feeling a bit nervous now! But excited too.

For mastermind: what is the preferred brand of pudding ramekin for pimping?
What do berries mean by drumming?

Nolly I hope the FC get back to you soon. Has work been ok re the hassle with the David Brent type?

HB how are you feeling? When's your otd? Shimmying away in this corner with my pom-poms for you

Smidge I forgot to say that I also really love it when dh gets involved in any way possible, esp if it's totally on his own initiative. Massive congrats to Mr Smidge on the promotion!

Gill how absolutely devastating for your rl friend, what an awful thing to happen. She is very welcome in these parts if she does want to stop by. How are you doing with bloods? Any sign of ov yet?

Lumen wow how many vials!! Cripes and what a lot of bloods for the new FC too. You will def need time off work to manage that with your commute.

Bows to Wilds knowledge on immunes. I'm still loving the mastermind specialist subject. I think we could all rock up (in our charabanc) and do a tag team!

Tiger how are you? Is work going ok?

Jellie yes first scan Monday hopefully everything will be looking good! Yeah I think most women who don't stay at home raising children are looked on as hard etc, career women etc. Its completely bollocks eh. How exciting that you'll be underway with your cycle soon! Very excited for you.

Happy any more news from the FC?

Happy birthday to Feather too, if she's reading!

Have a lovely weekend berries!

What did Eumice say?

Oooo Have the Berries been trolled again?