40+ and TTC? Join the club...

[cloudjumper]

To continue the support for everyone 40 and over who is or wants ttc. Lots of hand-holding and understanding, we're all together in the uphill struggle.

AWomb,I know that feeling. I always wished my DH could be more involved. But he just wasn't and in the end he admitted that to him the child doesn't mean much until he holds it for the first time. I find it hard to understand, but I do believe him. He really didn't want to embark on the vasectomy-reversal-ttc-pregnancy-baby bit of our DS (it took me three years to convince him - I've just realised I've been on this journey for ten years now), but he is clearly smitten with him and adores him. It sometimes amazes me that it most likely would not have happened without my pushing it and our lives have been so enriched by having DS in it.

My way of getting DH to take sups was to pop them on a tiny little plate and serve them with dinner. He'd say,"What's this for?" and I'd reply,"the white one is for your heart, because I don't want you to have a heart attack, the yellow one is for circulation, and the little one is to thin your blood". There was no mention of sperm or ttc. And he'd just take them.As long as I put them in front of him, he would.

I have to admit that I don't bother with the supplements much anymore. I got a bit tired of mothering DH and I also got tired of there being no good outcome. I know I should keep taking them, just in case, but I keep forgetting.

How's this Jass?

Grizzer, did you have your scan?

That should say, "How's things, Jass"

This one did not take root at all. The line has disappeared today. A chemical.

Sorry to hear about FIL Gum hope DH is ok but it's your loss too. Take time for yourself.
So sorry Jass. I agree, we get slightly hardened each time it happens but I still can't help looking at due dates & making plans from that first pink line.
Sadly it wasn't to be for me either. There is nothing there so it was probably over when I first bled but I made the mistake of testing. Strangely it has made me feel more positive. I hadn't had a bfp for 19 months & it was a good feeling to see one again. It has given me hope. So much for giving up - I'm increasing my efforts x 100!! Just need to stop bleeding now..... Seems to be taking a long time this time around. Thank you all for your support xx

Sorry for tou, Grizzer. Thing is, it is better than never ever seeing a line. i even feel more hopeful because of my experience in the summer when I first time in 4 years got to the stage when hcg was in thousands and there was actually a fetal pole. Losing it was horrible, but it felt like my body is relenting about killing them off, somehow.

Sorry Jazz and Grizzer. I think it would be amazing to see a line, Like you Grizzer it's been ages for me, I would have to get old diaries out to count exactly how long and I'm not going to do that, but of course we all want more than that line and I hope you both are looking after yourselves this weekend. Do you do nice or comforting things when this happens? Or even when AF comes? I had a curry and half a bottle of red last night. I've also given in to a craving for dark choc digestives and bought a pack. I'm not thin but I keep to a fairly healthy diet and never have biscuits!

And this thread has reminded to me to mark out the month so I'll dig out my diary now. I keep all my diaries and I sometimes imagine a day in the future when I'm 70 years old or something and going through them and coming across the ones that have all these numbers marked out. I wonder what my perspective will be then.

No I do not have particular routine when this happens. A chemical only throws me for a few hours. There have been so many and I am used, so to say. Disappoitnment, yes, but not deep sadness anymore.
i have my two boys who keep me busy at home and two grown-up children to talk to of I want to be even more surrounded by family. Also, my daughter is expecting, so there is a pregnancy in close family and rationally i know it would be rude of me to complain. So I do not:-)

Dietwise, I mostly eat what I want, so I cannot allow myself something I normally would not. I stand by sports to keep me at normal BMI and refuse any diet. Even if this means that for a runner I am rather round, even if not overweight. At the races most people are far thinner. But too thin at our age looks ancient:-))))

grizzer and Jass, so sorry that it wasn't to be for both of you. Like you, I feel that seeing the second line is a positive thing, even if it doesn't progress, because, to me, it means sperm and egg are still meeting up, and one day it might just be the right combination to continue on. I have fantasies of reaching 12 weeks and making an announcement. I do realise,however, that making it to 12 weeks is not a guarantee, but to me that would be a huge milestone. Anything after 10 weeks would be, as I have not made it past 10 weeks for the last four pregnancies.

Well, it has been very busy here.DH is doing so much to prepare for the funeral. I can see now, why sometimes people don't really grieve until after the funeral - because they are too busy! He has been going through the family photos (and there are literally thousands) to put together a slide show for the funeral. I am busy getting the house in order and juggling beds etc for friends to stay with us. I have a couple of days bereavement leave, which is good, I do need the time.

I am wondering if the stress of the last two weeks has delayed ovulation for me, or if it is the dreaded menopause...I know I am not officially ttc, but I still keep track of things,and though I thought I had fertile CM a few days ago, I've not had any O pain (I almost always do have it), nor the sensitive boobs I always get after ovulation all the way through to AF. So, I caved and bought some opks, and I've not had a positive the last two days. Perhaps ovulation is delayed. It is CD 15, and I almost always have O-ed by now.I am stumped?? Anyway, I am DTD a bit - helps relax my DH, so we shall see...But I am not ttc, right???

No Gum, you are not ttc:-))
You are just keeping track of your cycle:-))
I hope you and your DH stay strong through this and that all your children around you remind you that this is how life goes and help you to deal with the grieving process.

I have still no signs of AF, even if usually when the line goes spotting immidiately follows or even comes before. This time nothing. Which shows there is not even a routine in having a chemical pg:-) Even those manage to differ frome ach other. Well, I am not impatient to have it as i have my figure skating practice Dunday and Mo, I can easily do without AF until tuesday!

Sorry about the shitness, Jass, and no, Gum, you are not TTC, you're just pottering along in a philosophical fashion.

Really need a hand-hold ladies. I've started another thread here where I posted up my test results.

The back story is we waited ages to be referred, then the test results took eight months, then the appointment at which we'd discuss the results with the consultant was postponed, so the whole saga started about 18 months ago.

I was given test results by the GP in two formats:

1. 3 letters written to him by the consultant, pertaining to a day 4 test, and a day 2 test from the following cycle. These 2 letters state good ovarian reserve.
   1 letter summing up the whole situation, stating I'm ovulating, DP has an "essentially normal" SA except for some anti-sperm antibodies, and that the best likelihood of pregnancy would be IVF, but the chance of success is very low due to age.

2. The other thing the GP gave me was a printout of what I'm assuming is my Day 22 test. This is where it goes horribly wrong. I posted this on MN, and posters pointed out that with the scores I got, I couldn't possibly have been ovulating. What's even more confusing is the 'collected on' date of this test doesn't tally with the other letters at all.

I'm crying and my heart is racing, thinking that we've wasted years in the NHS system, thinking that I'm ovulating and we just need to keep trying. I discussed this at the time with the consultant, who said he wouldn't recommend Clomid for women who are ovulating. I'm panicking now that my test was misread.

I inherited some money about a year ago, and sank it all into a (much needed) house, so IVF is out of the question. I'm totally overwhelmed by everything, and feel in shock. I'm frustrated and stressed to the point of tears that I can't get to the bottom of this. DP is away, and I'm sobbing.

So sorry awomb. I can't help with test results as I've never had any testing & have no clue about it. Do you have regular cycles? The dr I saw on Friday said it is very unlikely you don't ovulate if your cycles are regular. Didn't the consultant go through all the results with you? Can you ring them tomorrow & ask them to explain the contradiction?

awomb Take some deep breaths, my lovely. You have indeed been given some very confusing and contradictory advice, so I think first of all, you need to get absolute clarity about where you stand. I don't blame you for being upset!
The thing is, we get so caught up in this whole ttc business, that we become self-declared experts. We read a lot, we talk to people, we come on here - and we get good advice and lots of useful information. However, none of us are medical experts, which I think is what you need now.

So, what I would do in your place is stop talking to your GP about fertility and conceiving and have a long chat with a fertility consultant - on the NHS, if you can, or if not, privately, to go over all your results in great detail and with the necessary knowledge. Yes, you might have to pay for that, but it will give you peace of mind, and you will know exactly where you stand. Can you find a different consultant, if you don't want to go back to yours? Or would you be happy to challenge him?
Did the consultant never see the Day 22 results, and if so, why not? It sounds as if he didn't, otherwise why would he say that you are ovulating and not give you Clomid? I am a bit as to why your GP should think that s(h)e is in a position to make the sweeping statements. Personally, I would have this repeated, as there is a chance they might have missed the 'proper' date - with a result this low for progesterone, a repeat is the first thing to do (and your GP should know this!).
Letters are all very well, but often they are written in a confusing manner, and you can't ask any questions to the specialist. You need the information to be looked at by someone who can really make sense of it.

Also, try and take some comfort in your good ovarian reserve, this is not very usual at our age! I had my AMH tested last year, and it is cr**. If you have eggs, but need some help with ovulation, there are drugs and treatment for that. More tricky, if it's the other way round!
Please don't panic, not all is lost. And do talk with your DP as soon as possible, to develop a battle plan. In the meantime, have a large

Grizzer and Jazz So sorry that it wasn't meant to be. Hope you are OK. And you gum! Yes, funerals are a lot of stress, I remember this all too well when my DF died... Hope you and your DH can comfort each other.

As for me, my temp kept diving this morning, and as expected, it was a BFN. AF arrived today I am feeling very sorry for myself and am irrationally angry with DH and have snapped repeatedly at DS (both are at loss why I am so grumpy). Combined with the first bouts of pre-Christmas stress, I am feeling very hard done by! And very weighted down by the 'why me' and 'it's all down to me'. As a result, I have childishly refused to go to the in-laws for the Christmas get-together of DH's whole family (he agreed to go without consulting with me, and I have a hairdresser appointment that day, which I made about 6 months ago because they get so booked up, and of course they have nothing else before Christmas) and told my sister I'm going to opt out of making the advent calendar for our mum from next year on (a tradition we started when our dad died, but it is always massively stressful to get the stuff to her in time, and she never says thank you). This is not going to go down well...
I honestly don't know how much longer I can put us all through this because I am not coping well.

Oh dear, Awomb, you most certainly have got some conflicting information there. I honestly think there's been a mistake somewhere. That progesterone level is not right post ovulation, so I have a feeling it was done on the wrong day. I'd be asking for a repeat of the 21 day test.

Cloud is right,(such wise words) You need an expert to have a look at your results, but really, they were from a while ago, so having them re-done would be a good idea. Hang in there, I know you feel like shit right now, but it may be a simple error,and you need to find out for sure.

I have two little anecdotes that may help you:

1. I had the day 3 tests, one of which was estrogen, and my Dr called me with the results. She said, "Your estogen is so low, there's no way you will ovulate". Cue deepest depression...and I got pregnant that month (I miscarried, but I did conceive, which I was told was impossible).
2. My sister had her 21 day progesterone test. She went to visit the Dr a week later for the results, and to tell him she was pregnant. Before she said anything, he told her he was very sorry, but she wasn't ovulating....she told him he was wrong and showed him the + pregnancy test.

So, clearly, mistakes are made somewhere.

Cloud, I do understand how awful you are feeling. Is there something you can do for yourself? Some time on your own doing something you enjoy? Or just some time on your own having a good cry? Sometimes I need to have a good sweating session: brisk walk, swim, some sort of exercise to get the anger and frustration out and it really helps. Or a yoga session or meditating on my bed, some time out.

I am with you on the Christmas stuff. It is an added stress to families,I think. Ugh! I am not a fan, mainly because it is such a lot of work for me. My DH doesn't get why I get stressed, but he's not the one planning food, buying it, preparing it, preparing the house for guests,cooking everything, planning the gifts and buying them (for our kids and families), getting the kids to all their Christmas dos...After last year I said I want to pretend it isn't happening and just go to a tropical island somewhere. Well, that's not happening, but I have refused to make plans with family. I just want to be a hermit. And, for you, you have had a traumatic year, you don't need to have more stress in your life. I know it is not mumsnet to give hugs, but I am going to anyway (()) as I know that helps me.

Still negative opks for me. I guess I most definitely have delayed ovulation

Just dropping in quickly to say hi, and do a bit of hand-holding for everyone who's having a shit time. for all.

Thanks for helping ladies. Just to be clear, the letters I'm talking about were sent to my GP by the consultant, the GP did nothing but hand them over. The consultant said in person that I was ovulating, and wouldn't prescribe Clomid.

awomb Ah, of course, that makes more sense, I was wondering! Do you think you will try and talk to the consultant again? I honestly don't see how he could have concluded that you are ovulating, based on the progesterone results, I would really ask for those test to be repeated, to be really sure you know what you are dealing with, before making any decisions about what to do next.
Did I read that right that you are in NI? Maybe calibee might be able to share some insights into where to go for fertility assessments?

Thanks cloud. Calibee and I were PMing a while ago, but haven't heard from her since, I was wondering about how she was getting on, actually.

Have a GP appointment booked for the week after next, I'm going to ask for new tests and to see exactly how much the GP can do for me before being referred back into the NHS system.

This is all compounded by both me and DP being really short of work at the moment, we have The Fear about even paying the mortgage, hence I can't sleep and I'm looking at job sites.

handhold for those who need it!

Awomb, while you are waiting to see with the doctors, you could try soy isoflavones to help you ovulate. There is a thread somewhere in Conception topics here. Also, you need to temp, its the only way to really really know whether you ov or not, opks do surge without ov. These are cheap things you can do without any doctor, so that you would feel you are trying to find a solution.

I got AF yesterday, a chemical pg is such a small thing for my body that it did not delay AF even one day this time....Which of course I guess I should be happy about. I also notice that after my summer mc my cycle seems to have got normal - I do not have spotting before AF as has been the case since my first mc. So, spontaneous changes to hormonal balance happen all the time and who knows, some might lead to remedying spontaneously the problems with mc. Or so I prefer to think. i will have a granddaughter in April. Good to know our male-dominated family gets some girl power!

Jass, that's lovely news about a granddaughter

Awomb, sorry to hear you have got worries about work. I would find that very stressful.

I am at home again today, couldn't face teaching teenagers when I am so exhausted. Dh was up til 3 am toasting his father (drinking heavily), so he is very tired and hung over today. I didn't stay up quite so late, but was not able to sleep all that well and also had strong ovulation pain on the right side. But opk yesterday was negative, so not sure what to think. Will try my last opk today, then I am just going to try ignorance...

At least it feels like something is stirring int he ovaries, maybe an egg will surface, who knows?

I have to finalise some year 11 marks today, but other than that I am thinking a doona day might be just the ticket...

Hello, it is quiet on here.
Would you believe I finally got a + opk and it looks like I have ovulated on day 19?! I think I am definitely peri-meno or meno-pausal. Oh well, I knew it would come round eventually.

When you ovulate late, does that mean there's less chance of conception, or does it make no difference?

Went back to work yesterday, which was fine, but busy marking and getting reports done. Unfortunately DS now has a horrible cough, but DD looked after him yesterday, today I think I'll send him to school, as he spent most of yesterday playing lego and seeming fine! He's already trying the sympathy card, but I just can't keep taking time off work and DD has to work today too.

I hope all is well out there...drop in and say hello.

Hope all is well Gum. how is dh doing? That seems quick to be back at work after losing his dad.
How are you doing awomb?
A grandaughter will be so lovely Jass.??
I went for follow up blood tests today to check levels have dropped. The nurse recognised me from my late mc in 2012. I was going back and forth a bit & then had to stay in to deliver so I guess she got used to seeing me around! Anyway, after she took the blood, she said 'next time you get pregnant, come straight in to us because we can decide on a course of action to help you stay pregnant.' I didn't ask what but I felt quite optimistic by her assumption that I would obviously fall pregnant again.
When I went for my scan last week the dr I saw was an ex parent from my school! I taught her son maths! She also popped in today to see how I was & said she'd hopefully see me soon. I know I'm rambling but I just felt good that no one seemed to be thinking 'give it up old lady, your time has passed!!' (The thought does cross my mind quite a lot!)
So what's the consensus? Do I wait for a period or do I jump right back on that band wagon?

Grizzer the only reason they say to wait for a period is to be able to date the pregnancy reliably. But that can be done with ultrasound anyway. If I were you I'd be getting straight back on that wagon!

It is nice to have some positive feedback - and to know there are health professionals who want to help.

Yes, it does seem soon for DH to be back at work (he started back yesterday too), but it is the busiest time of year,unfortunately, and he can't really get someone else to finish his marking, tally up results and write reports. He's doing really well, though.

This afternoon he is going out to the family farm to spread the ashes. I would have liked to be involved too, and the kids too, but with DS not being 100%, I wouldn't want the germs to be passed onto MIL who has only just come out of hospital.

Just popping in quickly ... Gum really sorry for the sad news about your FIL.

You asked whether there's less chance of conception with late ovulation - my vote is for it makes no difference. But I'd also be interested to know if anyone else has any thoughts on this? I invariably get +ve OPK on either CD 12 or 13. When I conceived my DD my OPK was +ve on CD 16; I thought it might have been a bit late due to having only just started DHEA (literally a couple of weeks prior). My recent miscarriage was CD13 (without DHEA) - so still a BFP but not a good outcome obviously. If your cycle has moved a few days this time, I'd have thought its likely to be down to the recent emotional stress rather than anything else?

Thanks chewy, I suppose it maybe due to the stress. I did have one or two bfps with a day 16 ovulation but I think they both both ended in miscarriage though I think that's down to older eggs. Actually now that I think about it I think DS was conceived with a late ovulation.