FAO all BESH - SNF for those who frequently CBATM and occasionally SADAW after G&T. LOLs and BD will not be tolerated. IDs will WTP.

[CaptainMoll]

AYBESAAH? DYHIDWAP? DBDMYV? CYLTEPPC? DYLG? TTITFFY!

Anyone who can correctly translate the above messages wins a baybee.

(Or at the very least, the respect of the BESH).

[EuroShaggleton]

rasp it might be worthwhile reminding him that NICE recommends that you should get 3 rounds on the NHS because the average success rates are somewhere in the 30% range.

But you might also get frosties, so you might get more than one go from one round.

To give two RL examples of my two close friends:

Friend 1. One conventional round. One embryo put back straight after IVF - BFN. Two frosties put back - one miscarried, the other became a lovely little girl. One frostie left - became identical twins. Family done.

Friend 2. One conventional round. One embryo put back, had period, didn't bother testing, went for follow up appointment, turned out to be pg. Has two in the freezer.

[CaptainMoll]

Raspy do you just get the one go at NHS IVF where you are? Is there an option of registering in a different area (like at your/his parents?) if there's you can get another go? Is that possible? Or totally illegal?

It's maybe worth looking at the hard facts with him re adopting. I looked into it very briefly a while ago as a sort of steeling-myself-for-the-worst exercise, and the adoption sites make it very clear that a) adopting is often a difficult, lengthy and painful process and b) it's highly unlikely these days that you'll get a baybee out of it - most kids are older and have been through a lot of trauma and need very particular care. It may be that he's seeing it as a sort of easier option, but I get the sense that it's really not.

Sorry if that's a tactless thing to put up here, as I know it's at the back of many of our minds, but I was surprised at what I read and it certainly made me reconsider my attitude to IVF and made me feel a lot more convinced that I would try to scrape together enough for a private round if the need arose. I guess it's about making sure he knows the pros and cons of both options.

Of course, I sincerely hope you win your baybee without having to think about all of this at all.

alwyn glad droid did not spoil all the fun.

I like cats but BE is an allergy monster, and also thinks cats are weird.

I've had a luffly day off, pottering, tidying and being visited by my buddy. I don't get a lot of visitors as I live miles from all my friends, so it was very nice to hang out in the sunshine. It was also my first day of 5:2 dieting, and I think I managed to go only slightly over - 600 cals instead of 500, since my friend turned up and it would have been rude of me not to join her in the drinking of gin..

[RaspberrySnowCone]

Thanks guys, it's going to be a tough conversation I think!
Re adoption, I did a fair bit of research around Christmas time as that really will be the option if IVF fails. I just want him to come round to the idea of having a round or maybe two privately so at least we've given it our best shot. We only get one NHS round and both our parents are in our area so can reregister anywhere else. I'm really hoping we get some frosties, that would be good.

Moll, I don't want to come across as a diet snob but I really hate people starving themselves! 500 calories a day? Don't do it! Eat healthily every day, it's much more sustainable, that along with some resistance training or weight training so things like press ups, plank/high plank, dips, squats, lunges etc which can all be done for free at home will get weight off much faster. You will lose weight on 5:2 just because of calorie reduction but its not sustainable and it's not healthy which is what we need to be! Lots of protein, lots of non startchy veg, no bread/pasta (grains/wheat basically). Lots of berries but steady on other fruit and no processed food. Have good quality red wine, very dark chocolate as treats, nuts, seeds, dairy, green tea/white tea/fruit tea. Much better for you. it just makes me sad when people are hungry and their weight fluctuates wildly which is what it will do on the radical faddy type diets.

[CaptainMoll]

I'm am lying in bed staring at the rain and bottling my first c25k run. I am a bad person..

Rasps - unfortunately my metabolism doesn't give a feck about balanced diets. I've eaten sensibly for years and am still very overweight. I swim twice a week and my work keeps me moderately active. The 5:2 diet is allegedly sustainable - there does seem to be good evidence that it has a ton of other health benefits if you keep it up long term. You're right in that it's no good for people ttc, which is why I'm taking some time out from that to lose the weight. Being obese is causing pretty much all my fertility issues, so that has to change first.

I have 4 jobs, all of which have irregular hours, and am still skint, so finding time for a class or gym-based, more intensive exercise regime just doesn't work for me. I have no routine and no money..

[RaspberrySnowCone]

All depends what you define as sensible. I ate 'sensibly' for years and years, it wasn't until I started eating healthily and properly that I lost weight. We are fed such a lot of crap about healthy eating as we grow up that when we are asked the question do we have a healthy diet we instinctively think yes we do and actually it's so far from the truth it's scary, everything in moderation is not the way forward at all. The food pyramid for example is a load of tosh, it's the wrong way round and its bloody dangerous. No way the govt would ever change it, theyd get (rightly) sued by all he people who have follwed its principles and are over weight or have health issues because of it. So are all these 'healthy' 'enriched' cereals we are told are good for us along with eating brown bread, wholegrain pasta and all that sort of stuff etc etc.It's bad bad bad.

Could you fit in a 20 minute workout each day at home? 5 mins warm up, some resistance stuff and then a couple of minutes cool down? Tis all free then and there's some good stuff on the TubeOfYou. Even on 5:2 it will help massivelt

[CaptainMoll]

I did notice a difference when I cut out pasta and cut down on bread, so that's something I've stuck with. I mostly eat fish/lean chicken and veg really. I've cut down a lot on dairy and booze too in the last year.
I'm hoping my C25K will provide the workout I need, if I can just get out of bed in time.. I couldn't face the pissing rain this morning. I used to do Davina videos but my boat is too small - I end up punching the ceiling and kicking the furniture!

[HadALittleFaithBaby]

Hi all! Spot marking so I can keep up with you all. Fab new Fred.

I would reccomend Paul Mckenna's I can make you thin. It gets you thinking about how you're eating not just what you're eating. When I do it properly I eat less than when I'm 'dieting' and feel full. Bonus! :)

[RaspberrySnowCone]

Ohhhh Paul McKenna! I've always thought that was a bit wooooo for me what with the hypnotherapy stuff but I was chatting to someone last night who said it was more about having clarity of mind, relaxing and focussing. She told me one technique to help me in class (pole) and it worked instantly. Might have to have a read.

[HadALittleFaithBaby]

It's totally changed my perspective on food. I credit that and running round on the ward for my (minimal) stone weight gain when diffed. Once I'd laid I weighed the same as when I got diffed!

[Northey]

I am feeling crampy on CD 37, so I guess this is it. Now. Can I ask your collective haggish advice, because I don't know what to do :(

This is the droid where I am meant to phone the clinic and book in for a frozen cycle. But, but, but I don't want to! I can't bear the thought of starting all this again. All the stabbing and scanning and prodding and probing. I am starting my new job on Monday - I could do without being mad. I am still staying at my parents Mon-Fri - I could do without the humiliation of keeping my drugs in their fridge again.

I asked AMNH, who said absently "Of course I understand how hard it is for you darling" and gave me a hug. Which was immensely patronising and point-missing, if you ask me. Twat.

But what do I do? Do I crack on? Do I delay? We are getting married next summer. I don't actually expect this to work, as none of the other fifty million interventions have done much, but if it did, then delaying would mean I was at risk of giving birth at my own wedding. Or being mental with grief again, as I wouldn't have had enough time to get over the new failure.

Oh buggeration. Someone tell me what to do. Preferably whilst festooning me with fish. Fishtooning me.

[RaspberrySnowCone]

oh ick, . Can you push it back a few cycles until you feel a bit more ready or might that be more stressful? Men are useless at this stuff, MATV was similarly unsympathetic when I got upset yesterday when we were discussing only having the one round.

How long might you have to wait to start again if you delay this one? The frosties will be ok for a fair while wont they so no pressure there. Tis a hell of a process to go through so I'm not surprised you are feeling a bit apprehensive. Could you talk it through with the clinic counsellor if they have one (I think they should?)

[Bearface]

Ello. I appear to have appeared at an inappropriate moment.

I think I am a BESH, or am least beginning to morph into one. I think I need to join your coven. Can't find the last fred to complete said questionnaire. (Yes, I may be being dim.) Feel like I need some BESH support these days - will I do?

Sorry, Northey - I don't know what you should do. (I am a bit new to this fred.) Could you not crack on and if it works think about reorganising the wedding for another date post-diff? Or is it set in stone? If that was me, that's what I'd do. I always try to take the 'cross that bridge bloody huge gap in the road with no frigging bridge when I come to it.

[FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn]

I don't blame you in the slightest for feeling this way Norf. If your head is not in the right place now then it probably is a good idea to postpone. Your cycles aren't too bad in length, so if you suddenly have a change of early in a few weeks you can crack on for the next cycle.

Have a chat with your clinic. I'm sure they deal with these sort of concerns all the time.

[TWinklyLittleStar]

Oh love, have a whole bucket of whelks and razor clams over your head. I don't really know what to say - if you don't do it this cycle can you do it the next?

There's a lot to be said for giving yourself a break. It's a massive physical and mental strain. In terms of next summer - if you did get diffed on either cycle there's no telling when a baybee might come, or if you might need a C section and hospital, for example. If you don't, only you know how the grief might affect everything. Some counselling is a good idea but presumably you need to decide pretty quickly?

We're here for you whatever.

[FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn]

The BESHtionnaire's are out there Bearface, you just need to go back a thread or two. They're compulsory I'm afraid

[TWinklyLittleStar]

There's a completed one on the Austen thread I believe

[Bearface]

Okay, Frank. I went back and I'm not sure if this constitutes the BESHtionnaire, but here we go:

We are Barren - tick, or perhaps so - no concrete evidence either way yet. Nearly two years and not a sniff of a BFP. Actually, to be fair, it's probably down to DH as he has low everything on the sperm front. But then, I probably have underlying problems I don't know about.

We are Evil, on account of having left procreating until our 30s - tick. I'm 34. Started this whole malarkey when 32. Getting proper bored with it now.

We are Selfish, thinking only of careers and money and cars and holidays - tick. Who'd have thunk that you could have it all in this day and age? No? How ridiculous of me.

And lastly, we are Hags - tick. Becoming progressively more embittered by the whole process. We are at the referral stage, which has now been 'rearranged' by NHS for the third time in as many months. Not sure we are ever going to even make it in for the appointment at this rate.

Welcome to the BESH gin palace. Babydusters and instadiffers need not apply - tick. Hate all that baby shit nonsense. I do try to be polite to those who partake in it though.

Do I qualify?

[Bearface]

Oh no - I've just done this one Twink. Hopefully, no one will notice if it's different.

[TWinklyLittleStar]

The first question on the one you need is "do you like gin?"

[JethroTull]

Norf. Like others have said, could you wait a couple of months? Starting a new job sounds enough to cope with so dealing with a frozen cycle could tip you right over the edge. I think it's also good to approach any AC feeling 'ready' & if you don't feel like that then it's not the right time. Don't put yourself under pressure.

[Northey]

Sniff. Gulp.

Fanks, hags. Oh I don't know. Something feels so wrong about delaying, but I think that's just conditioning from having pushed on so relentlessly for the past million years, worrying about time passing and so on. But then again I Just Don't Want To be doing it now.

raspy, muchos sympatheticos about men who Just Don't Get It. Dickbrains.

I have just ruined an elaborately planned multi-course supper with moping and sniffling. Oh well.

Hello bearface. Just search for the BESHtionnaire. It'll come up easily enough. Much more easily than wittily apposite answers

[Northey]

[RaspberrySnowCone]

tis a weird thing to get your head around. It really messed me up, after trying for so long to then think that we weren't. It was especially hard when I started to feel my body gearing up to ovulate and that was when I cracked because I just couldn't shake the feeling that 'this could be our month' and besides which I get really randy at that time of the month and was stuck with a MATV who was well and truly fed up of being used as a sperm bank which as much as I hate myself for saying it, is what he had become over time. Mechanical sex is not good sex. Nor did it get us what we wanted.

[CaptainMoll]

Norf - have a penguin huddle and some carp of complicated decisions.

It sounds like your instinct is to wait, and I think with the nebulous intangibles of ttc, listening to your instinct is often the only way to make any decision.

[JethroTull]

Moll - that's exactly it -listen to your instinct.