Fireworks, bonfires and long winters' eves will herald the Rat Smacketeers' BFPs this month and we are Brooking No Argument!

[Shrieklette]

Welcome to our new humble abode for the next six weeks or so, Brookers!

Here's hoping this fred will be as lucky as sparks' and scarlett's [hgrin]

That sounds like a really positive appointment Solars - I am so pleased you seem to have found someone who knows what they're talking about! May I ask if you've gone private for this or is it NHS? Is the chap an endo specialist or can he do IVF too? It sounds like a really positive plan in any event (not that you'll be able to have that lap anyway because you'll be staring open mouthed at a positive pregnancy test!)

So in theory you could be looking at IVF in the new year, not that you'll need it?

Keep riots? that sounds scary, stay safe! We did talk about ivf with the consultant, he was quite shocked that they only let us have 1 go on the NHS. He highly recommended ARGC. We were talking this evening about whether we should send off the registration form now as their website said it could take 4-6 weeks for an appointment but we may wait until the procedure is carried.

Biscuits lovely, this was private, as just conscious of my age and not wanting to be frustrated by timescales with the NHS. This is one of the areas the consultant specialises in and he doesn't do ivf anymore but as I said he does recommend ARGC. Yes hopefully we can get started in the new year. Hope all is well with you.

This afternoon we've had another complication to our fertility issues. We received a letter from the ivf clinic today reviewing our cycle and some of you may recall that at our egg collection some of DH's sperm didn't survive the 'spinning' and we had to go for 'emergency' ICSI, well it turns out that they they think this quite likely to do with antisperm antibody. The letter did go on to say that this shouldn't effect natural conception?? Dr Google however says it depends on the % of antibodies Now we're not sure about whether we should get DH's sperm tested??! It may give us a a better idea of our chances naturally?? Not sure now May try and speak to the clinic about this on Monday??

It just feels like its one thing after another now but I guess it's good in a sense that it hopefully means it's giving us some sort of answers to our issues of natural conception not being easy for us. However I'm a brooker and I'm not going to let this stop us and looking at it as a step closer to getting our baby.

I think I totally would have gone private if I were you also solars just because the whole waiting game just adds to the stress of it all (and it's not like it isn't stressful enough as it is!). How nice to have the appt and then have the lap done in a couple of weeks. (Well, not 'nice' exactly, you know what I mean!) Totally worth it I think. For my money I think I would be tempted to get dh's sperm tested too if that was a possibility and not prohibitively expensive. If you know there was a potential issue there on your other IVF cycle then it might be worth just getting all the bases covered. Can they do anything different depending on the results?

And riots Keep - stay safe! Xx

Well at the moment i'm only going on what Dr Google says and he says it depends on %, high % means ICSI is the only way or even donor sperm! Low could mean that natural is still possible but considering nothing has happened over 3 years for us it doesn't bode well to be continuing naturally? Wish we got this letter before our appointment today. We're wondering if it's worth speaking to our GP or sub fertility clinic about and they can do the testing on the NHS perhaps??

Gosh how confusing solars. Have you been discharged from the NHS clinic? If not, ask them. If so, perhaps get an argc appt asap and ask there, am sure GP would just Google it...

I don't get what they mean. I mean, they say that it wouldn't affect natural conception, and you are now doing ivf/icsi anyway. Does it affect icsi, as it seems that's the treatment anyway... How did they end the letter, or was it a 'just so's you know...'?

But you are looking at another ivf/icsi anyway, lovely, due to time trying. So maybe don't worry about 'natural chances', as it's all a guess anyway, and you're doing all you can already.?

God, there are just so many bloody things that can be wrong!!

Bfn this morning. AF not due till Thurs, but at 11/12dpo and possible 'bleeding' on Tuesday, I'm inclined to believe it. Sigh. Was so hoping for a pre-iui brooking miracle.

Sorry about bfn Keeps but it still could be too early if AF isn't due until Thursday anyway??

The clinic's letter is all quite confusing really. The letter was left quite open in terms of us coming to a decision about whether we pay for ivf with them or go for a lap in which case we would be discharged back to the gp. The antibodies thing was actually written as a ps!!! They said it is quite likely antisperm antibodies but didn't actually test for it at the time so don't actually know what they are dealing with, so I'm not sure why they also wrote that natural conception is still a goer especially considering in over 3years we've had a hint of nothing I am going to speak to the clinic on Monday and ask to speak to a lab person for more info as this wasn't even mentioned in our review appointment, would like to ask how the sperm is prepared for ICSI ie do they remove the antibodies or just look for sperm without antibodies and also ask if they can get our GP to do the test! DH has already made an appointment with his GP to see if they can do the test but they may only do it if asked by the clinic. We'd like the test done just so that we know what we are up against and can take it along with us to argc. I think in the back of my mind I was just hoping to have a go naturally as ivf/ICSI is just bloody hard going as it is and would really like to avoid it!! Thought the lap would enable that but now we may have a sperm issue too! Sorry about me, me, me :(

Sounds like a plan, solars. And don't apologise, you'll all be bored by treated to my iui tales next week. Of course you want to avoid ivf if poss, but if there's no treatment for these antibodies than ivf anyway, maybe it's worth testing to see if natural is worth it after the lap.

S'pose it could be too early. Could really use some brooking... Twas only a crappy IC... Must be faulty.

Quick post

keep ICs are rubbish, 3 days before my AF was due and an IC gave me a neg, then the following day a faint line, more evap like than anything else! It wasn't till like a week later the IC properly registered, by that point the asda own and CBD had already confirmed my suspicions!! Bloody faulty sticks!!! Brooking like Billy-o for you!!!!

Will catch up properly later

Keep I used IC and got the tiniest, faintest smudge 1 day after AF was due so you are just too early to confirm

Afternoon all, sorry I have been a bit lacking in posts of late am still very much brooking from afar. Just been really busy in RL DH decided we need to start home improvements (hallway, stairs, landing & kitchen replastered and decorated plus new flooring) 6 weeks before Christmas!!! and then we are on holibobs from Saturday - bring it on.

So I see Jen has gone all Christmassy on the NN front, anyone else joining her this year?

Keep those IC can be the most frustrating what do I know i have never had a dual line on any brand of HPT and often others have said the pink line tests such as Superdrug seem more sensitive. Fingers crossed my dear.

Solars so sorry that these letters dont seem to make things easy do they. Best plan is to ring up and speak to someone about it. Hope you get it sorted soon. You have done well to get your IVF notes so quickly, I have paid £50 for mine and still don't expect them until mid December.

Sparks little Twinkle will be 15 weeks by Chrimmy that is so lovely, you will be positively blooming.

Geek I agree with you that the end of Nov is just a bit early for starting Christmas but as Boo says if John Lewis, Coca Cola & Morrisons says so then it must be.

Beedle I love that your DP is so excited about decorating the place, my DH is the same. I said as we are on hols first week in December maybe we could give trimmings a miss this year - if looks could kill OMG.

boo 17 weeks already, where has that gone? We will look around next year, you will have sneezed and boobie will be here

Maybe Imps hope you are ok my lovelies and up to plenty of RL mischief

I have been on a different site i know I am traitor with ladies a bit more experienced on using donor eggs and everything that goes with it. We are both prepared for our appointment on Thursday. I have a list of questions to ask around the donation process, how much we get to find out on the donors cycle, what drugs will be involved this time plus many more. It is a pretty full day on Thursday, we see the consultant, counsellor, nurse, egg donor co-ordinator, give bloods, DH does another SA. The clinic say they have more donors than recipients so i am not sure how long it will take until we are matched but I would think it will be early in the new year. I am sort of looking forward to it in a strange sort of way.

Hey there Sweetie good luck for Thursday, sounds like a full on day for you! We had to pay £50 for our notes too. So pleased that things will be happening soon for you x

Brooking for you Keeps still hoping for your pre-iui BFP!

sweetie!!! so good to hear from you. I'd forgotten (?didn't know) that you have your consultation on Thursday. Massive, massive good luck for it. It's great that you're feeling excited about using donor eggs, you should be - as it's just a step closer to your brooking baby. Am happy that you got some good info off some other ladies. Please do pop in and let us know how it goes. I'm surprised they have more donors than recipients. Are people mostly donating and doing IVF themselves at the same time, or just donating? What lovely people, if so. Either way, that's great. Are you private or NHS for this round?

Not long until your hols as well! Are you staying at home? we hardly ever do that, but when we do it's great.

Thanks for the IC-bashing, girls! i thought they were meant to be super sensitive. We'll just have to wait and see as i'm not testing again.

Hi keep any more POAS action this morning?

The clinic have both options sharing egg with lady going through ivf or a genuine donor. We are paying so cost differ depending on which we go with. I would also imagine there is a longer wait for the genuine donors but don't know. If we egg share they guarantee 4 eggs & 8 eggs for genuine donor. If we go for more eggs then we may get frozen embies & chance of a sibling in future I know I am getting ahead of myself

We are tenerife bound on Saturday, a week in the sun is just what I need. I have already loaded my kindle with trash chick lit and that is pretty much all I intend doing for the whole week ok it will be shag week so might do other stuff too

a shagging/reading/sunning holiday sounds perfect sweetie. You deserve it, it's been a hard few months. I don't think you're getting ahead of yourself, you're a brooker, and we will be here brooking for minisweetie and the sibling. I'm so excited for you! Do the chances of success look the same as under 35 when you use donor eggs?

saturday is sparks' scan. YAY!! Are you looking forward to seeing twinke?

Nope, no more POAS for me. Cannot take it.

Sparks that is amazing that you are having a scan so soon. These things come around so quickly. Exciting times.

Using a young donor egg increases statistics massively. The clinics quote 60% success rates, so more likely than not to have a successful outcome. But that is one of my questions for Thursday. Not sure if that 60% is BFP or live births.

How is the weather with you today keep and no more riots I hope?

Right mega long post!!

But may be one of my last on account of starting a new job soon which is bound to get in the way of MN!!!

Sweetie 60% success rates? thats great!! and of course that doesnt filter in the increased chanced of success due to brooking tendancies!!! are you writing all these questions down?

Keep Ive still got my fingers firmly crossed for you!! I think we should ban brookers using IC hpts they're just so unreliable!!!!

Solars Never ever apologies for being mememe (which you werent being) you're going through the mill a bit at the moment, and its what us brookers are here for!! Have you decided who you are going to speak to? I guess waiting for the lap will give you a bit of time to get the other things sorted as well, or at least the investigation started!!

Im excited/dreading/nervous/happy about seeing Twinkle on saturday, although mrsparks isnt helping by the constant reminders that twins run in my family!! I cant believe that I'm 10+2 today!! This is a true brooking baby and I absolutely wouldnt have got this far without you guys

am a bad person for telling mrsparks that they help with ms when I really only wanted to have a daily chocolate fix!!!

Here we go brookers, stealth post... forgive typoes or hasty exit

Such a busy weekend on the fred, I can't believe I missed all the action!

keep glad your visit with friends wasn't unbearably 'baby'. These things can often go one way or the other, it sounds like you had a nice time though :)

solars that warm lamp trick would have had me going big time! I too find lying works best, anything that steers well away from my true feelings. Can't always manage the smiling part though! I was told the lap would only mean a wait of a couple of months, depending on healing time - the six months would be for if it was full open surgery. I'm so jealous of you having yours in two weeks though!!!! That is an amazing turnaround time and just shows what can be done if you are footing the bill yourself What a shame about the timing of that letter though - can you ring the clinic you just attended for advice? I had no idea men could have antisperm antibodies, I thought that was a 'woman' thing. The more I learn about TTC the more amazed I am that we continue as a species let alone that the majority appear to be superfertile specimens If testing is an option, I agree that it would be worth doing before your next IVF, just so that you have every scrap of information to hand.

Keep I read on the news about the riots, glad you are keeping yourself safe and away from them. Boo to the bfn, but it was just too early my lovely. Has the spotting stopped now? I think you still have four days before AF is not going to show so please don't be too disheartened. I am brooking, and refuse to be refused on this! I would wish you good luck with your IUI but you clearly won't need it as your brooking miracle will be confirmed by then. Though probably not on an IC, as I agree they are rubbish. I have had a total of 4 positives on them, and not a hint of a sniff on a 'proper' test (apart from one month when I had evaps on every test I looked at). I still use them, but it's mostly to scratch the itch without breaking the bank iykwim.

biscuits and jen how are you keeping lovelies?

sweetie redecorating? This close to Christmas and your holiday?? Insanio, as a work colleague says! Tenerife sounds fantastic, just the tonic for this rotten weather. You are completely forgiven for deserting us going to another site for a while, there are so many specialist forums (fora?) out there, it's good to get perspectives from people who have already chosen egg donation. It sounds like it will be a very busy day for you on Thursday, will be thinking about you loads - please update when you are ready. I too am amazed there are more donors than recipients, but that is surely a good thing - means you can afford to be choosy. Did they explain how they guarantee egg numbers?

Sorry ladies I need to get on and earn my pennies. Will try to pop back at lunch and post more

why do my 'mega long posts' always look short next to Geeks lol

May I ask a question of those of you in the IVF know? To be an egg donor do you just essentially do IVF up to the egg collection bit? So would you need to do the down regging, stim and EC bit? And what does EC involve?

It is something I have vaguely considered but I don't know how you'd go about it? Am I right in thinking that you might have to be under 35 as well?

Biscuits I believe the donors have to be under 35 and then the process is the same as the IVF cycle. I am not sure if down regging is required or they just stim and then egg collect. Egg collection was ok in my opinion, I was very nervous but it was a breeze. You do your egg release jab 36 hours before EC, the evening before and morning I was given a sedative tablet to take. Then on the morning of the process you are given pain relief and heavy sedation. The actual process only takes 30 mins, none of which I remember. Just woke up/came around and all was done. I was a bit groggy all that day but fine the next day, slight tummy cramps a bit like AF pains but nothing too much.

Geek when they guarantee egg numbers, I think they tell us if it is less and we can decide to cancel that go or get a refund. There are loads of rules for the different options for various outcomes, and of course these all cost different too. It is quite confusing to be honest.

sparks I am sure your new job will have space for a little MNing, you too can become proficient in the ways of the ninja-poster Remind me what your new job will be doing again? Is it still at the uni? Sorry about mega posting, I'll try to keep them shorter in future. When I get started I just babble on, I'm a bit like this irl too if people let me

sweetie darn tootin it's all confusing! Seems you have a pretty good grasp on what's what though, and you are armed with your list of questions which is always good. If you're anything like me your mind goes completely blank the minute you walk in the door of the clinic and re-populates with all the things you should have said the minute you walk out!

solars have you been able to speak to anyone about the antibodies/percentages? I hope they can give you a bit more information. That letter sounded like it raised more questions than it answered.

Erm is that it? Am I caught up?

Slightly fuming here, I've just found out my prommised payrise isn't happening because dink boss didn't get his spine and balls for Christmas. I have to wait til next October, and fulfil a development plan that I have evidence of fulfilling two years ago. But hey ho, I refuse to let it stress me. I have a job, and I'm at least not taking a pay cut.

Ladies, a question for you. My full time job is 9-5 (or 8-6 if you factor in travel time) and I'm on annual leave from saturday 15th December to New Year's Day inclusive. Would I be a little mad to try to get a christmas temping job to cover that period, or should I just take that time to chill and relax? We aren't desperately short of pennies, but I just feel like I need to get as much money as possible in the bank to cover all eventualities (mat leave/self-funded IVF/all the other odds and sods we have promised ourselves for the house and garden that haven't materialised because we are saving for mat leave etc/"plan B" expenditure)

PS - shock revelation of the week - I am wearing a skirt to work! (only because neither of my work trousers got washed at the weekend)

Geek Im only messing, you're posts are ace!!

Regarding getting a new job. I guess for that period I'd maybe look at getting something part time, for a few extra pennies! But you'd need to look in to how much they'd sting you for tax, I remember I once looked at getting an extra part time job and by the time I'd been taxed it was hardly worth it!!

BUT at the same time I'd think maybe you should spend some time chilled out? things are going to get frightfully busy for you next year.... hmmm decisions decisions.

Yes same company different post for me. I've worked out that its 3 weeks Friday when we break up for christmas! how very exciting, thats nearly 2 whole weeks off, its like the light at the end of a very dull tunnel!!!

Just popping in to share a really sweet clip.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=30uKAo57AxE

Beware it plays music for those at work.

I can't get it to work sweetie

sparks yes there would be quite a tax hit, 20% on everything, plus NI contributions of about 9% I think. 3 weeks to Christmas break-up - yay!

Hey, it's 3 weeks to my christmas breakup too - double yay!