TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

[skeletonbones]

New thread as the old one was getting to 1000. So, 4 BFP's in the last thread, lets see if we can up the total considerably on this one :)

Hello ladies.

Good luck with your fertility appointment Lisa. Have you thought of loads of questions to ask?

Joycep I'm glad that you are feeling more upbeat. I hope that it lasts and that it is catching!

We watched Marley and Me last night (well most of it, I had to judge at what point to switch it off before the dog died so we watched up to the point where the owner is saying to the dog how he has more grey hair and in the next breath says "wanna go swimming?" which made me think uh oh, dog getting old, a Florida beach, possible shark eating dog incident & switched off). I didn't realise that it was about having babies too. I must admit I was choking back the tears & felt so sorry for myself (especially when they moved house to boot. That truly was the last straw!). I keep finding that totally innocuous things set me off into some pit of self indulgent despair. Trying to watch the TV, especially with all the baby adverts (I find the one with the tiny baby laying on it's father's chest so gut wrenching for some reason), read the newspaper or go to Tesco with the army of newborn babies is a minefield at the moment!

Talking of the newspapers I was reading yesterday about the IVF lottery but the article also said that one in seven couples have fertility issues. That seems like a really high figure to me.

Harper Seven would be a great name for a TV series but for a baby????? How does that happen? How do they come up with these names? Imagine the conversation, "darling I've thought of this great name"...

X-posted with you Mrsden. Wiffling on about some flim flam while other people have real issues as always - sorry!

I'm sorry that you have a wobbly day. I think that doctors appointments are a sure fire way to make you feel odd. I think it's the build up to it and then the relief/disappointment when it's over with.

I'm so glad that there has been improvement in the sample and it is encouraging that there is a chance that it could happen naturally. I hope for you, I really do.

Do you have any idea what the timescales might be for the assisted intervention?

I'm thinking of you MrsD and hope that you feel better!

I read a couple of threads on here about the IVF lotto pout , I even commented on one and then got told that I was being patronising by saying that in my experience only people that conceive easily think IVF shouldn't be available on the nhs. So I've hidden the thread now, I haven't got the energy to respond. People can be so nasty towards people with fertility problems which I had never appreciated before. The thread was full of people saying it was a lifestyle choice and we should go and adopt. If I was in the UK, I would seriously enter the lottery but only if you could stay anonymous. I think it's a scandal that people are forced to think about entering a lottery for a health problem. I think it's sad that so many people suffer with fertility problems but don't talk about it but seeing what people write on some of the threads I think I'm right in keeping this just to DH and me at the moment because people can be very judgemental and unable to empathise. Sorry, rant over.

I love your waffle pout, this thread always cheers me up. It's amazing that a thread full of women who are taking longer than average to conceive can make me laugh, but it really does.

I couldn't watch a film like Marley and me, I am such a cry baby that I'd be in floods of tears just in anticipation of what is going to happen. I don't think I used to be this emotional but the slightest thing sets me off now. I even cry at happy things and cried my eyes out when a brownie pack came into our office to sing for a fundraising thing

I'm not sure of timescales, I see my gynae on the 28th, then I think I still have to have another ultrasound to check the cyst has gone (please, please let it be gone so that's not another thing to worry about), then I need to have my day 21 blood test done. I don't know what else she might do because I guess we can be fairly confident now that we know what the problem is. If she refers us to the fertility clinic I think we should get seen fairly quickly because there is no such thing here as waiting lists.

There have been quite a few threads about fertility that have made my blood boil. I get riled when people imply that it is the woman's fault for leaving it too long. The welfare system in this country is on it's knees in part because of people who knock out babies with no thought or care of how to financially provide for them.

I especially love the comment often trotted out about how having a baby isn't a right. It might not be a right but it is, on a base level, the reason why as women we are put on this earth and it is a strong physical/primordial urge. It seems like the healthcare professionals ignore the pain that infertility causes. In fact I am amazed at how no emotional support is provided or offered at all. If one in seven couples have fertility issues then there must be loads of couples in our respective areas going through the same pain and worries. It seems to me that some kind of support groups could easily be set up but yet they don't exist. Instead women like us are finding comfort online. I am so grateful for the lifeline that Mumsnet has offered me but I had to find this myself.

I also hate to be told to adopt - my Mum comes out with this from time to time. While adoption is a noble & rewarding thing it isn't right for every woman who can't naturally conceive. I don't universally love all children. I want to love mine and DP's child. I want to carry a baby, feel it grow and see me and DP in it's face. Not everyone is strong enough/cut out to adopt an older child who perhaps has emotional troubles. I wish I were but I'm not, so adoption isn't some magical answer for us.

It's true what you say pout, the whole point of life is to create more life. It isn't a choice like people so often spout. Someone on one of those threads said that if a couple can't afford to pay for IVF then they aren't rich enough to have a baby because babies are expensive . How many people can lay their hands on £6-10k in cash in one go? It really bugs me that some people think me and DH should just give up and "get on with our lives". There was some sort of snide comment about people wasting their lives wanting something and they should just accept they aren't going to be parents. But these comments (and the adopt ones) come from people with children. So it's so easy for them to say that. There is a definite, phew we're ok attitude.

The only support I'm getting is on this thread, because I don't feel comfortable telling anyone in RL. Because I really don't know what people actually think about IVF and infertility. DH in particular doesn't want to tell people because I think he worries people will think badly of him. I hate the fact that we have to be so secretive but I just don't think people will be that supportive. Maybe I'm underestimating people.

I hate that "just accept it and get on with life" attitude too. You wouldn't say that to someone who is ill. And though infertility isn't an illness as such (though I think it can lead to mental illness) while there is a chance you can overcome it of course you're not just going to give up and just accept your lot.

I think I've said it before but if having several thousand pounds in your bank account is a prerequisite for having a baby then very, very few people would have babies.

I haven't told many people in RL because I feel there is a stigma. I almost feel that my mother and sister are embarrassed and uncomfortable by it. I also don't actually think that many people would give a rats arse because it is unlikely they would have experienced how it feels. I think people just think oh well you can have IVF, not understanding that the cost is prohibitive and it isn't universally offered on the NHS.

My mum suggested that we tell my MIL about our issues because the last time I saw her she was going on about her nephews pregnancy news which really upset me. This baby is now born (presumably, DP still hasn't told me!) & my Mum thinks that I should tell DP's mum to stop her showing me loads of baby photos etc. I mentioned it to DP and he said absolutely not because his Mum wouldn't see it as a big deal and wouldn't understand why we had told her. Maybe DP is underestimating her - I hope so - but I think that gives some kind of indication of how infertility is just something that is silently carried around by couples.

It sounds like things should move pretty fast for you, that is a good thing. I hope that your cyst has gone too. How dies your DP feel about it all. Is he ready to start with the intervention as soon as possible?

does not dies!

I understand why you don't want to tell your MIL, I think MIL cannot help but be insensitive. Mine is always going on about wanting grandchildren, next time I might just burst and tell her everything, that would shut her up.

DH is slowly accepting the fact that there is a problem. I think up until we went for tests he thought I was overreacting but I knew something was up. He actually said today that he's glad I didn't listen to him and waited another few months. He doesn't have the ticking clock though and I think he's happy to wait a few years before doing IVF. But I am not prepared to wait that long so we could have interesting conversations about this. But I know we can't do anything like IVF straight away anyway because of money, if we told PIL it is possible they might lend us some of the money but I would never want to ask. Even if we went back to the UK, we'd have to be on a waiting list for nhs treatment so nothing is likely to happen for at least a year after we moved back. Neither of us wants to move back though, it's not our home anymore. So I think the plan is to save, save, save, save. Or to buy a lottery ticket.

Hello all! I'll have to keep this breif as I am busy.

slow I guess time will tell if it is a lasting effect but there does seem to be a noticeable difference.

That IVF thread was vile. I don't really understand why people are so hostile to fertility treatment and view something wrong with the reproductive organs as completely different to something wrong with your big toe/liver/whatever. And yes, it is always people who have families who take that attitude. There was a terrible lack of empathy on that thread. you couldn't get away with that kind of nastiness to people with any other kind of bodily malfunction!

Oh, and I meant to say, I refuse to acknowledge there is a stigma in being unable to conceive instantly or without assistance so I am very open about the fact that we are ttc and have been for a while. I prefer that approach. But I can see why others might not feel easy with it. Luckily, my family are putting no pressure on us to produce offspring (although they would like them) and a couple of my friends have already had fertility treatment so people in my group of friends have already seen how tough it is.

I can understand not telling parents too Pout and MrsD. I have told various friends (mainly because of a bursting need to talk to someone before I found MN and some friends who I knew were having similar things). But we have not told either set of parents yet. Not sure why as I don't imagine they would be unsupportive - I'm just scared of telling them - I think DH and I just want to keep it private for a while.

Plus it's just a bit weird for me to have any conversation which suggests that DH and I have any kind of intimate knowledge of each other - I mean we have only been together 15 years, married for 6 and have a son........

If we get some definites on starting a treatment of some sort then I think we will tell them then - I imagine we might need their practical support to help with DS around appointments etc and I would like a bit of extra hand holding then too but until that time it remains a secret.

I suppose in a way because our DS is the only grandchild on either side they perhaps feel less need to pressure us. My sister can't have kids, and this makes it even harder for me to talk to her about it oddly because I am still hopeful that we might get there for No 2 one day - she took it hard when we got pg with DS and I think if now had trouble conceiving but succeeded eventually it might be sort of another knock as they have given up. My BIL just hasn't had any yet - I imagine they might be feeling the pressure to reproduce at the moment and thus taking the pressure off us as far as my PIL are concerned!))

Also Pout - yes LOTS of questions for the fertility clinic - this is appt no 2 so really want them to give me some answers now. I have started compiling a list.......

Hello to everyone else - hope you're all ok xxx

MrsD - I'm pleased that your DH's results have improved but still sorry that you are seemingly going to have to go straight to IUI and ICSI. You know what though, you just never know what goes on with fertility - it could still happen naturally. People who have been told they have 0 chance, still conceive. I really hope it does for you. And it just goes to show , you shouldn't listen to DH's on this sort of thing. If you suspect sth is up, then it's best to go and investigate. I've started saving for IVF as well. I have got it in the back of my mind that we are going to have to go down that route next year.

Pout - I have to switch off with Marley and Me. I hate any films where a dog dies!

Don't get me started on the ivf lotto. Most people couldn't care less because it's not an issue for them. They can then get absolutely horrible about people with fertility problems. Fancy calling you patronising MrsD - it says it all doesn't it.
I have also been amazed about the lack of support for problems with fertility. It seems like a lot of fobbing off. And not just lack of support - but just the lack of advice really. It doesn't help that i'm always a bit suspicious about the things I'm told. But there are also bizarre things like when i went in to hospital to be scanned during my m/c, I was in the same waiting area with pregnant women who were all coming out with their baby scans. It just seemed a bit twisted.

TBH everyone knows about DH and our issues. I am not really an open person but for some reason I have told people. I don't get asked about things all the time which is good but i think people become more sensitive towards us on this issue. I just couldn't stand being asked, 'so when are you two going to have a baby'. I couldn't face pretending anymore.

Anyway, in the midst of every famous person seemingly up duffed this year, Ant and his wife (of Ant and Dec) have been trying for over 18 months now....

Just a quick one as have to get DS from nursery but Joycep Are Ant and wife expecting or just TTC? Do they have kids already? Just interested........

euro and joycep I have taken the same line of you two and it really has helped. At first nobody knew we were TTC and they mithered us about it, but now that I have been quite open, people are being much more supportive. I guess I'm lucky in that a lot of my friends are scientists so they are all into IVF, although my step-FIL once made a comment about how it was a waste of taxpayers money. Blood-boiled but I kept quiet as the have not told the in-laws yet.

I also want to know about Ant - it's nice that someone is being open about it for once instead of keeping it all secret.

As an interesting comparison - in my department at work there are 12 of us and of those, 5 have children, 4 have never tried that I know of and 3 (if you include me) have failed to have children despite trying...

Ant and wife are trying to conceive. I don't think they are open about it but I remember seeing an interview over a year ago where Ant said they had been trying for a while to have a baby. I am like an elephant and don't really forget fertility stories I have read...I don't know why it came to me but I just checked they hadn't had a kid and they haven't so I guess they are still trying.

That's interesting Purple there are 3 of you who are trying. Have the others been trying long?? I always like to hear about the ones who take a while...gives some comfort i guess.

Maybe if more famous people were open about fertility issues then it would become more "acceptable". I only know of Chris Evans and Ben Elton who have openly discussed their difficulties.

It is interesting that those of you ladies who have openly told people you are struggling feel better for doing it. Maybe it is better than smiling through gritted teeth and pretending that everything is hunky dory.

Maybe Lisa the whole admitting to troubles TTC would be like telling my ILS all about our sex life and basically telling his Mum that I regularly defile her son is the underlying reason why I am reluctant about spilling the beans!

Joycep your experiences when you had your MC sounds horrible. That is so insensitive to have you around expectant mums clutching their scan photos but to me it just sums up many peoples attitude towards MC too. That kind of oh well you can always try again idea. My Mum had an MC a few months after I was born and she still speaks about how nobody seemed to give a shit - even my dad You'd think that things would have moved on 35 years later but obviously not.

Mrsden It seems so unfair that someone in your situation has to pay to have a baby. I feel so angry when you see some of the low life specimens who are dragging their children up and then there are really decent couples who nature decides can't have a baby naturally. I know it isn't right to see things like that but I can't help it.

My DP gets really annoyed with me because at my lowest points I tell him that it feels like I am being punished for something and that I must be a terrible person. I don't even believe in God. On a lighter note, when I was watching my dog earlier pick every bit of cabbage out of his bowl, lick the gravy off it and deposit it on the floor I thought that maybe Mother Nature has a point & that I would be a crap parent!

Purple It really worries me about how many couples are having fertility issues. It can't just be because women are leaving it later in life to try for a baby surely. Has it always been like this I wonder. I suppose in my family my Great Aunt and Uncle never had babies because they couldn't. Whenever I ponder a childless future I always think of their lives - we were dragged round there as kids and we hated it because they were so out of touch and so useless at interacting with kids. She is also a totally nasty piece of work and I wonder whether her lack of babies made her like that.

pout I think that it has always been like that. I just think that people just refuse to talk about it. My sort-of auntie by marriage x 2 (v. complex) took 10 years to get PG about 18 years ago. In fact she signed up to IVF when it first came out and then fell PG naturally after all that time!! If and when I ever get PG - I am going to make sure that everyone I meet knows exactly how hard it was...

Fertility does seem to have plummeted and I really don't think it can all be to do with age. After all, it is only really the age of first child that has changed. Women used to have large numbers of kids and would pop them out every couple of years through their twenties and thirties.

I am a rare only child of the 70s. And that is only because my mum couldn't have any more after me - she tried but miscarried 4 and they never found the reason. And she was in her twenties when all that happened. In fact, she was told not to try any more at 32 as she got very, very ill with her last MC and nearly died. I'm not sure even the Daily Fail could pin that one on her "leaving it too late".

I think celebs who have difficulty normally admit to it after they have had a child. I couldn't imagine being famous and talking about it whilst you were struggling.

pout - I have heard worse stories where women have to be induced to give birth to a stillborn in the maternity ward. How awful is that. I just don't know how people would cope with that. I also feel like you on those dark days where you think you have done sth wrong or I just think it's a signal from mother nature. Oh and my Aunt is a nasty piece of work as well and I always wondered whether it was because she had 5 kids!! and currently she has 20 grandchildren. a point my mum likes to point out as proof that fertility isn't a problem in my family until me!

I had a long conversation with a retired gynae last year totally randomly out in Germany. He was saying there is about 50% less sperm in the world than there was 30years ago. It's mostly to do with the crap that is in food and all the pesticides. Whether that is a reason for fertility issues I am not sure. But I do think it must also be something to do with us starting later. I wonder whether hormones can start going out of sync the older you get. I do wonder the effects of alcohol and smoking on they body as well. I am hypothesising completely.

Euro - your mums experiences sound awful. Poor her.

it would be good if celebs were more open but I don't blame them for wanting to keep it private. Didn't Myleene Klass say that it took a long time to conceive her second child and she had started to look into IVF when she got her BFP?

I imagine lifestyle has affected fertility levels, but then a case like ours has nothing to do with lifestyle. I do think people always assume that it is the woman who has the problem though, I had a great aunt and uncle who never had children and I always remember people assumed it was my aunt who had the problem but quite possibly it was my great uncle. I used to hate going to visit them because their house was so boring and not child friendly and she was not maternal at all. But now I think about it, that was maybe her way of coping. I wonder if they'd tried for years or whether they gave up early on?

euro that is sad about your mum, does she know about your struggle to conceive? Did they ever find out what was causing her to miscarry?

I did a lot of googling last night to read up on IVF. I feel a bit better after reading that it is more likely to be successful with male factor infertility than unexplained fertility. So, maybe it is better to have identified the problem.

joycep are you still taking a break? Have you decided not to try IUI? pout are you not eligible for nhs treatment? I don't understand why the fertility clinic discharged you? Are you on a waiting list for treatment?

Mrsden I haven't even bothered to read up on IVF or anything because it is highly unlikely we would ever be able to afford it before my ovaries give up & the menopause kicks in.

I really don't want to get so out of touch because of not having kids. At the moment I'm lucky because I have my nephew keeping me up to date with stuff but I suppose it would be easy to become a fuddy duddy. I always think that a woman stays looking younger and more fashionable if she has a daughter.

I'm not eligible for NHS treatment because of the diagnosis of unexplained infertility. You only get IUI or IVF if they can find something specific wrong. As it stands, apparently I would be eligible for one shot of IVF if I still haven't conceived by the time I'm 39??????? I've been discharged because basically they have done all the tests they can do. I think that the gynae was rather hoping that one of my blood tests would show non-ovulation so she could give me Clomid but that didn't happen so her hands were tied really. Gah!

Hi all

Sorry I didn't update last week.
Went to the drs weds and he was lovely. Had a blood test Thursday and got to go back for my day 21. Shes referred me to gynae so I've got an appt at the beginning if August.
She thinks there's a chance I could possibly have blocked tubes due to previous illness so we'll wait and see.

DH seems somewhat reluctant to donate his sample and is a bit aloof, not really talking about it.
But when he'd had a few beers at the weekend he did voice his concerns. I think he's worried that if he sends his sample off then it'll come back that he's infertile

So i need to raise the subject with him again, sober, to see if he'll discuss it with me.

How's everyone else?

how frustrating pout and what a totally stupid system. Is that your PCT that says they won't fund IUI or IVF for unexplained? I looked up the policy for the area that we would move back to if we were going back to the UK and they will put you on a waiting list for IVF if you have unexplained and you have tried for 2 years. I don't know how they verify that you actually have been trying for 2 years though. For us with an identified problem we would have to be on a waiting list for a minimum of a year but they aim to start a cycle within 18 months so not too bad I suppose. I looked up the clinic that I think we would get referred to here and it said that after the initial consultation and decision to do IVF, you can expect to be at egg collection stage within 2 months. Amazing how fast things can move when you pay! DH and I decided last night that we will do the 3 rounds of IUI if they agree to try it because we don't have to pay for that and we figure it's worth a go even if the odds of it working are slim.

fatima that's good your Dr was nice, can you explain to your DH all the tests you have to go through and how having to provide one sample is not such a big ask of him? I know men are a bit rubbish at this sort of thing, they much prefer to bury their heads in the sand but my DH said he is so pleased that I nagged him because it is better to know than to be in the dark and pretend everything is ok.

What you say about being put on a waiting list is very interesting Mrsden. The way it was explained to us was that we had no chance of NHS funded help, now bog off and pay for IUI/IVF. TBH neither DP nor I were very confident that the gynae knew what the hell she was talking about with regards to what we were entitled to and which PCTs offered what. She wasn't even sure what PCT we were covered by - we live in one county but went to a hospital in another county. I think we have been so worn down & tired by the process that we just accepted what we were told and are just hoping that we will fall pregnant naturally. However, you have inspired me to go to my GP & definitely discuss possible Endo issue but also to definitely discuss what exactly I am entitled to intervention wise - thank you, I had no idea NHS funded help was even possible with unexplained infertility.

Money does talk doesn't it, I am finding that more and more the older I get. If I were you I would definitely do a few rounds of IUI if it is free. You've got nothing to lose by giving it a try. It will at least make you feel like you are doing something proactive until the IVF treatment unless of course you get pregnant with the IUI treatment in the meantime!

Hello Fatima. I'm glad that your appointment with your GP went well. I agree that a SA isn't a lot to ask off your DH not when you have already had needles stuck in you and will likely find yourself laying legs akimbo at some point while people are peering at your bits. My DP got the death stare Warp 10 when he advised me that he "may need some help producing his sample".