TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

[skeletonbones]

New thread as the old one was getting to 1000. So, 4 BFP's in the last thread, lets see if we can up the total considerably on this one :)

popcorn I totally agree... at the beginning I did question whether I was ready, but now I know there is nothing else in the world that I want.

Feeling a little shamefaced this morning - went out with work last night (last day of term so I now have the holiday-blues) and such games as Who would you Do were being played. Very shameful. Also ended up telling the guy I have a crush on all about my TTC blues (on the upside, I lied on my WWYD so at least he doesn't know I have a crush on him) - he has a baby but he did tell me that it took them a year to get PG.

I'm not temping or OPKing anymore but I haven't had any EWCM and I'm now CD20. Normally I OV on CD19 but I get EWCM for at least 3 days before so I think it's a stupid non-OV month. V peessed off.

Thanks for the supportive messages regarding DH's SA. I don't actually think that the GP lied to me, just that either the results were on the rubbish-side of normal or that there was something unusual, such as the semen being too thick or the volume being low.

I agree that I was a bit um I'm not sure about babies at first. Now I'd give my right arm to have a baby and it feels like a long way off. I'm still spotting, AF feels imminent. Totally confused, all signs indicated I ovd on day 14, luteal phase has been 11-13 days for past 18 cycles,no idea what's going on and have now diagnosed myself with luteal phase defect etc etc had a v small cry of five tears to dh. He said maybe it's just a blip. I hate this no mans land of spotting, I just want to get on with it now. Another fail month. Thoughts of implantation bleeding haunting me. My mum and friend had it, so is it rare or common?

As for morphology, I've read online that the new cut off point is 4% but that doesn't seem to have filtered through to my GP. Even with low morphologies there are still a hell of sperms. I wish I could look inside and see what happens in there. Like, do any sperm actually reach my egg? Does an egg ever get fertilised? I want to know!

Sorry for not addressing people by name, iPhone so no bold function I'm aware of. But love to you all.

Peace I know what you mean about wanting to see what is going on in there! I'd love to be able to do that.

Peace I have thought that so many times about wishing I could see inside to know what's happening! In my mind there is an egg and a load of sperm all bobbing about uselessly without bumping into each other, I'm not sure if that means I'm subconsciously blaming DH! Hee hee. Sorry the spotting is still happening, so frustrating. I'm not sure about implantation bleeding, I had wondered if it was some kind of urban legend but obv not if you know two people that have had it.

I stupidly poas'd today after swearing blind I wouldn't. Why do we do it to ourselves?! I knew 100% it would be bfn but couldn't resist the urge. Now I feel crap.

Purple love the sound of your works night out and especially the hot colleague! He gets extra points for taking a year to conceive! I have no fit colleagues whatsoever :(

Mrsd - i think above 3% is normal. But i have read people getting pregnant on 1 and 2% morph. It's very envy making when you see how easy it is for people to get pregnant. The trouble is we want things immediately and for the majority it does seem to happen pretty quickly and so getting our heads round this unfairness is a battle.
But I was talking to a friend who has been trying for over a year and she was so positive about everything. And she was trying to highlight the positives to me for when it finally happens - like we really will be grateful for morning sickness and the fatigue that comes with being pregnant. Of course we will be anxious about things but i think we will embrace it much more and be so more appreciative than someone who got pregnant straight away. I will never moan when I'm pregnant...yeah righ! Also , i have always wanted 3 kids but I have put my expectation down to '1 would be lovely' and I think (obviously can't say for sure) i won't be so panicked and worried when trying for the second because I'll always be thankful for one. uuuummm, perhaps things don't really work like that. Anyway, life is swings and roundabouts and they say that in order to grow, you have to go through the sludge, i.e. the suffering and other obstacles.

Eeek sorry for getting so philosophical, i spent last night contemplating things when I found out yesterday about an old friend who has got brain damage and is in a half vegatitive state from a cycling accident. she'll never be the same again and although i'm not in touch with her at all, I just can't believe someone so sweet and pretty can have that happen to her. It's moments like these which suddenly diminish one's own problems.

Peace - I am sorry about the spotting. I hope it's nothing bar implantation bleeding. Please don't panic yourself about short LPs or anything- it sounds like yours is normally a good length. But yse, i also wish to know whether sperms ever get near the egg.

Well i have just had a meeting with my gynae. I've been taken off the clomid as she agreed that it obviously didn't suit me. But after going in there and feeling like I was going to pass out again like last month, I went out with a huge grin on my face. I do have a left ovary and there was a ripe egg there!! I can't believe it - i'm so thrilled after several people never having found the left side, it actually is there. I'm hoping this is the lucky side. I'm not sure where my ewcm is though.

popcorn I have similar mental images given my OH's lack of sense of direction!

Also, when my acupuncturist mentioned that my progesterone level of 30 post ov indicated that I had ov but my eggs could be immature, I had images of them gallivanting around my womb, chucking globs of CM at one another playfully....

(I'm now wondering whether I should be asking to see a therapist rather than a gynae....)

Hi everyone, I'm still here, now 15dpo and so sign of AF. Havent tested today as i just cant face yet another BFN!

Izzy I still have my fingers crossed for you. You should test first thing in the morning to get the most accurate answer I think? Hope AF continues to stay away and you get a BFP when you cam pluck up the courage xx

Oh Izzy fingers crossed :)

I went to the drs yesterday to get my blood results. All are normal so that's a start
DH is going to give his sample tomorrow so then we can get some SWIin done.
Currently on CD10

Hi ladies,

Haven't had much chance to catch up on much apart from the last few posts, but wanted to check in. I'll take some time to read everything later :)

Fingers are crossed for you izzy. I'm afraid that I'm out for this month. Tried to pretend that all the spotting didn't mean that AF was imminent but have now given in. Did a test yesterday so that I could enjoy my wine with DH without stressing about whether I was pickling my baby . Was so stupidly hopeful that maybe I could go in to the doctor next week and tell her that we don't have to worry about getting all of the test results back, because we managed to get pregnant on our own.....

So I've had a bit of a wobble, but off to see lots of old friends tomorrow afternoon and will bounce back from this. Anniversary trip was lovely too. We went back to the place where we got married and had beautiful weather - a lovely picnic on the beach and some hillwalking, making me feel like we were more justified in eating ridiculously rich food all weekend .

I hope everyone else is having a good week. I promise I'll read up on all of the latest this weekend.

Morning Ladies,

Having a very down day today so I'm afraid this might be a bit of a me me me post - apologies . It is also likely to be extremely rambling so I apologise for that too.....

It's just that I feel soooooo tired at the moment. I really feel like TTC is taking its toll on me - we're 19 mths in now and I'm just fed up with it. I think if we were a bit younger and didn't already have DS we would probably take a few months off from trying to give ourselves a break but I feel that with already having DS (and thinking of age gaps etc) speed is of the essence (laughable really NINETEEN months in) so don't want to 'miss a chance'. I just feel like it will never happen naturally for us - BFPs must just be for other people :(

I don't even know when AF is due this month as I can't work out if / when I've ovulated. I may have ovulated as late as this Monday just gone (CD19 on a normal 28 day cycle) so AF could be due anytime next week or even up to the Monday after and it is always so stressful waiting for her visits - it just all seems so dragged out this month. Having said that (and this is my small bit of positivity this morning) at least I know if she is late and it is because I may have ovd late then I won't be getting my hopes up only to have them dashed (or at lease not quite so much).

To top this off DH is super tired at the moment. He is working so hard and literally gets in and has his tea, and then falls asleep on the sofa. He really is not good when tired so I am worried about him too. He has worked all of the last few weekends (as well as all week obv) and it really takes a toll on him if he doesn't get a break so that strains things a bit.

We have our appt at the fertility clinic today to discuss our test results and I just feel like I am stressed up to 99. I thought IVF was going to be my answer but I am putting unreasonable hopes on it. The odds are at most 40% ish which is still low. And then I had a 2 hr chat with my friend yesterday who has done several (sadly unsuccessful) cycles of IVF and she explained the whole process to me. It sounds horrendous and when I explained it to DH later he thought maybe we shouldn't do it because it would be such a strain on me. But then that made me feel even worse because I wouldn't want to not do everything we can to try for a child because 'it might put me out a bit'. I did point out to him that if we are talking of things being a strain on me then pregnancy and birth etc is pretty much up there but now I don't know if he wants to do it or not. We would also have to pay for it so there is the financial consideration too. We are in the fortunate position where we COULD afford probably 1 cycle (and I do appreciate that this is a very fortunate position to even have a choice) but it is still an awful lot of money to gamble with. We're not exactly the Beckhams! It would be a stretch but we could just about afford it.

I just feel like I am spinning round in circles and I really feel that this week especially I am not on my A game for DS as I am so distracted by all this going on in my head. I have thought a lot this week about what it would be like if we don't have another and I totally understand that we are so lucky to have DS and then I feel like a bad person for wanting another one - I should just be happy with my lot in life.

Apologies that this is all so rambling but I just needed to offload so much stuff from my head. DH is so good to talk to normally but when he is so busy at work he's just not here to hear me out. And I can't help but think that he thinks I'm making a fuss over nothing. Don't get me wrong - he wants a baby as much as I do but he just doesn't spend as much time thinking about it. Especially in the 2WW - he could never understand how stressful that is. He has a stressful job and I feel bad for moaning. I don't work at the moment and I think he thinks I just overthink things because I don't go to work. But I can guarantee that I did think about it just as much when I was working (only gave up in December).

I think I just need someone to slap some sense into me - please feel free to slap away

Hope everyone else is OK and congratulations if you got all the way to the end of such a rambling and self indulgent post - you deserve a and a .

Lisa xx

madness Im so sorry the spotting became AF. I prescribe a weekend of treats and wine. I'm now on 10dpo, with miserable spotting starting on the eve of 8dpo. I tend to spot 11/12 dpo til AF a day or two later so this has upset me. I worry a lot about spotting before my period. My acupuncturist has done a lot of work on this and some months I've had none and AF has just appeared. This is not the norm though. Normally it limps in and limps out and I've had cycles where the spotting has gone on for 4-5 days. Acupuncturist said this is stagnated energy, but crikey, I've quit caffeine, pushed the booze right down, got fit for a 10k run, changed my diet radically and do yoga every other day. I'm a shadow of my last year unhealthy self. Body - sort yourself out!! I'm not even particularly stressed at the moment.

Reading as much as I have online, I'm sure this spotting is relatively normal for people and that most people's period doesn't start with a bang. Do they? But days of spotting makes me think that something is going on. But progesterone results fine and doc not interested in spotting at all. My temp is still up, but not in any kind of exciting triphasic way. Not POAS this month, can't face the lonely line. AF officially due on Monday so potentially a whole weekend of spotting. Pah. Please all comment on pre period dribbles so that I can put myself into perspective!

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I first started TTC, I wept buckets when my period came and now it doesn't feel as shocking, more normal. Still disappointing, but expected somehow. Which is quite sad in itself. Other than you lovely lot and, my own wonderfully honest GP, I am the only person, without exception, that I know has taken longer than 3 months to conceive. The odd random person I've told (usually when they say, so, do you want to have babies) says 'oh I had the opposite problem - we just used to look at each other' etc etc z z

So - Izzy any news? Wishing you two line luck.

Sorry Lisa cross posted then. I think this is the space to get things off your chest and I'm sorry that you are all in a muddle. I have always wanted 3 babies. Currently I have no babies, but I am sure, that if I am lucky enough to have one, I will want the siblings just as much. In my own cack handed way, this is me saying that I do totally understand. I'm not sure how old you are, but try not to worry too much about the age gap. There are 3 and a half years between me and my bro and we are totally best friends (perhaps less so when I was 18 and he was 14 but that soon passed!). Families come in all shapes and sizes and age ranges, so maybe this is a pressure that you should take off your shoulders for now.

The TWW is a total and utter head fuck and I guess, pretty impossible for blokes to fully get. They don't have boobs/womb/cervical fluids and I don't think can ever properly realise that we live through it all hour by hour. When AF comes, I know my DH is a bit sad for us but then he's off doing his thing, he doesn't have the cramps and tampax to remind him.

I'm not sure if you have read the book Inconceivable and The Fertile Female, or heard the podcasts by Sue Dumais. There is a lot of helpful stuff in there about emotions and things that other fertility books don't talk about so much (I'd reccommend them to everyone, bit touchy feely but uplifting, which a couple of months ago was what I needed). They have been very helpful to me and have smoothed some of my rollercoasting. Well, a bit.

Keep going x

Thanks Peaceport (BTW I've just changed my nickname from LisaJayneS to Biscuitsandtea - I felt my nickname was decidedly dull compared to everyone else's!).

I know you're right about letting go on the age gap thing - after all there isn't a lot I can do about it is there! And youve hit the nail on the head about the AF and 2ww thing - like you say DH feels sad but then the next day he's back at work and I'm curled up on the sofa shovelling biscuits in because of the cramps! .

It's nice too that you and your brother are best mates too - my sister is 7 yrs older than me and we've never got on that well and I don't think I want that for DS. Mind you my sister is also a bit of a headcase so that could be a relevant factor......

(Was LisaJayneS)

Temping monitor has just comfirmed that ov happend on Sunday just gone so still only 5dpo not the 11dpo I thought I might have been :( Thus the 2ww will be a 3ww this month as I've done an extra week of waiting before i had even ov'd!

Peaceport - hope that spotting can sort itself out - what a business to just be waiting all the time for AF to come but never quite knowing :(

Izzy - still have fingers crossed - it ain't over till it's over........

Biscuits I'm so sorry that you're fed up. 19 months is such a long time to be going through TTC. It is difficult finding the mental strength to carry on sometimes.
I know what you mean about the thought of IVF being so gruelling. Following Mrsden's advice I looked into the PCT info for our area and apparently if you have unexplained infertility and have been TTC for 3 years you are eligible for 2 rounds of IVF - thanks Mrsd . We are trying to move house and me and DP have since discussed staying in West Sussex purely because of the IVF opportunity. However I worked out that if it came to that I would be nearly 38 and DP nearly 43. I was thinking that having a baby at that age might be too much for me let alone the physical demands of the IVF process. I have already noticed starting to feel older lately. Depressing!
It's so annoying when you don't know when to expect AF - I sympathise. It makes the whole thing worse because it is another element of second guessing.
Good luck with your appointment, I hope you come out feeling a bit better about everything!

Madness I'm sorry that you are out this month. I'm glad though that you had a nice anniversary.

Peace My gynae wasn't interested in the spotting either. Like you I sometimes spot for a day or two before AF, sometimes not. Never noticed it until TTC.

Izzy any news?

Joycep I'm sorry about your friend, that is just awful. I keep telling myself to count my blessings but it is so hard when it seems like having a baby seems so normal and easy for everyone else!

Following the chat on here about sperm morphology I got out DP's SA result print off and there is a section which lists the normal ranges. It says Morphology should be >15% normal forms. This is according to the Royal Surrey County Hospital, I don't know if that makes a difference.
I hadn't properly looked at this before until yesterday (was so fed up that the envelope went straight in the kitchen drawer) and noticed that DP's is only 6%, cue much from me! It's funny I have spent months convinced that the problem lay with me and it seems that actually the problem is more likely to be DP.

Oh forgot to add that in typical man stylee in response to the poor morphology DP said "well my volume is way higher than it needs to be so the percentage of normal sperm will be higher"

biscuits I totally understand everything you said in that post. I too am feeling overwhelmed that IVF is probably our only option and it frightens me. I don't like hospitals and I hate the thought of it being such a medical process with injections, hormones, sedations etc. DH doesn't really understand my concerns, he is so positive about everything but I keep trying to explain that it is a horrible process and the odds of it working are not even 50/50. The thought of going through it all and then for it not to work would be just awful. Also, I always wanted 2 or 3 children but now I think what if we can't have one or we have one but then have to go through it all again and I just can't face it? And the cost concerns me, we are not rich and I am envious that people can have babies without having to pay iykwim? I feel sick thinking about it all but I am always thinking about it. It's the last thing I think of at night and the first thing in the morning. My mind is never clear of ttc. But you know what I do find helpful is to take DH's advice and try to think of one thing at a time and not to focus on the future. So all I'm thinking of now is my next gynae appointment. I hope you have a constructive meeting with the consultant today, let us know what happens.

peace I'm the same as you, I don't know anyone personally in RL who took more than 6 months to conceive. My Dr also said that if you are confident you are getting the timing right then you really shouldn't expect it to take a year or longer. Sorry that's not very comforting is it?

joycep I'm glad you had a good Dr appointment and you have given up on the clomid, no point taking it if it mucks you up. So happy she found your ovary, it must be shy!

pout great news about ivf funding, can you not lie a bit and say you have been trying for longer than you have? And shouldn't they have put you on the waiting list for treatment, I still don't understand why your consultant told you to go away?? Re. morphology there are 2 ways of counting it, and I think the greater than 15% is when it is the WHO scale, the Kruger scale is greater than 3% because it is much stricter. Is the 6% on Kruger or WHO do you know? Because if it is Kruger then that is ok, but not if it is WHO. Have you seen your GP about endo yet? I woke up with the worst AF cramps today, took an ibuprofen and ok now but flow is very heavy. Does anyone else find their periods change from month to month?

Re. spotting, I always have one or two days of brown spotting before red flow starts. Gynae said that is totally normal and nothing to worry about. I think it is more of a worry if you get spotting at other times of the month.

Thanks MrsD I'd never wish anyone else to be going through the same as we are but it really does help to know I'm not the only obsessed person around! And you're right - it is just the last thing I think about at night and first thing in the morning - but thank goodness for MN so I can vent and have the support of you lovely ladies

It's true as well - even people who think that have 'had trouble' getting pg maybe took 6 months or so. I have one RL friend though who has had 3 or 4 failed IVF attempts and is now about to try one with a donated fertilized embryo (don't know the technical term). I don't know how she does it - she comes from a MASSIVE family too and her siblings are literally popping out kids left right and centre - I mean she literally has 20+ nieces and nephews. She is amazing and makes me so thankful for what I have (if that doesn't sound smug - it's really not meant to - I admire her more than I can explain).

Biscuits - sorry you are having a downer but this is really the best place to get it off your chest. Sorry but you have probably mentioned it before but have you done all the tests and did it all come back normal? and how long was it to conceive your first?
Peace - i remember on my first month of ttc, i sobbed my eyes out when AF arrived. Now it's so to be expected and when it does arrive, i always think, thank god i don't have to think am i aren't i any more!. What were your progesterone levels out of interst? I'm not too sure what, if there is any, significance to spotting. It must be infuriatin though for you because it just adds to the worries.
Pout- any signs of ovulation for you yet? I'm from W.sussex - intersting that it's got ivf there. We want to move back there so that's good to know. But i'm confused why it would take another few years to get it since you have been trying for a while already? Or is it 2 yrs from the moment your name goes on a list?
Mrsd - sorry about AF. And yes AFs change from month to month especially since ttc. i don't know whether it's because I notice everything with my cycle now but cycles have been very different every motnh.

oh and Pout - on DH's results it also said >15% for morph so your DP's results will be on the WHO guidelines. Now don't worry WHO are changing their guidelines for Morph and anything above 4% will be considered normal. They are also changing motility from >50% to >40%. If he's got a good volume and good count , there's nothing to worry about. Although i like to throw everything back at DH every now and again and point out his swimmers aren't exactly olmpic athletes so perhaps he should lay off the beer...i am afriad it does make me feel better trying to offload some blame on to him .

Hey ladies. It sounds like some of you are having a hard time of it. As we've only been trying for a year I haven't been to gp yet, figured since we already have a dd there wasn't much point. However in that time I've only had 2 cycles and in this one I'm now 16 dpo with no sign of AF....so confusing so I might make an appointment cos that can't be normal!?

izzy, I'd go in those crcumstances for non-ttc reasons.

Izzy are you still getting BFNs? I agree with Euro I'd go to doc for that as there might be something they could do sooner than a year xx

Mrsd I am also a bit confused as to why we were told to bog off & pay. I can only think that it is because the hospital we went to was in Surrey and the PCT guidelines are different there . My DP said that we were probably too calm & together about it all and if we had either been crying or shouting we wouldn't have been fobbed off! I have made an appointment with my GP, though it's not until the first week in August, to discuss what the heck I do now and how to get on the waiting list & when the clock starts RE the 3 years waiting time IFYSWIM. I will also mention the endo to her because she seems quite knowledgeable about all things TTC.

I think that your DP is right about tackling things in bite sized pieces. I think that the TTC rollercoaster is so full of things to worry about and it can be a snowball effect once you start thinking of one element of it.

I too wanted 3 children, then I thought we'd probably only have time for 2 & now I reckon we'll be lucky if we have 1. It's funny, life never goes how you plan it.

About periods, I find that about every three months I have a period that is especially heavy and painful - not sure how that works but it has always been like that even before TTC.

Joycep I can't believe that I forgot to congratulate you for finding that AWOL ovary - I mean't to because I was like yay when I read it

The morphology thing is comforting - thanks for that. Though I reckon I might keep that information to myself for a bit because it may focus DP's mind when it comes to vitamins and his booze consumption!

Izzy I second popping to your GP. The fact that you are asking them about your lack or periods rather than fertility per se might actually be a good thing and work for you to bypass the waiting time for a gynae referral.

Biscuit I like your new name BTW, in fact I like anything that has a minimum of 500 calories . How did your appointment go?

Thanks Pout - I feel it sums up my personality better .

Waiting for the appointment now - arrived only 40 minutes early [yawn]

Hope everyone else is ok. xx