The Short Luteal Phase Gang

[onedaybaby]

Hi,

I've noticed that the question about a short LP comes up quite a lot, and I would love it if we had our own thread to discuss where methods we are doing to try to increase it, lengths and what the dr thinks!

My LP is 8 days with a 31 day cycle.

I am currently taking Agnus Castus and have had accupuncture for 2 months. I also use the CBFM.

This will be my 9th month TTC. I have had the 21 day blood test (which has to be done on 28), the day 3 blood test and an ultrascan. All tests are normal.

Thanks! I feel like they don't believe me either, even though that sounds like a ridiculous thing to say, like they're all stupid and I'm the one with the medical knowledge.

blueberryboybaitonsafari (I hope I got that right!) - that's exactly why I want to get hold of Clomid as I strongly believe my short LP is caused by a crap corpeus luteum round the eggs I produce late (day 20-25). However, in the literature King's Hospital sent me, it says that "if you are ovulating you will not benefit from ovulation-inducing drugs like clomiphene" so I have an inkling I won't get any and will then have to pay for it privately.

Dzudzi, I do sympathise - I really do. Re costs - just to echo what Joycep says - it is pricey. I have had a good recommendation for a consultant who practices in Harley St who charges £200 for the first consultation. But I think it's all the follow-up investigations and follicle tracking that can boost up the costs...

Hello all,

I've been absent from the thread for a couple of days but I feel like I missed out on so much. I've been reading through and I want to start tackling or at least doing something positive next month. When AF rears its ugly head I am going to make myself a Dr's appointment.

I can't remember who said it but I hate the 12 month thing as well. It seems a number that they picked out of the air, I doubt most of them understand how frustrating and stressful all of this actually is.

I'm on day 30 and my period should arrive today - 10 days past ovulation this month. I am still hopeful it might not show up, I have been crampy since Monday but that isn't anything abnormal for me.

Anyone else just about at the end of their cycle?

I was reading online yesterday that even if I wanted to do a pregnancy test on the day of my period because I am only 10 DPO it could only be something like a 10 percent chance of it showing up positive.

I can't stop wishing my period won't arrive and some moments I wish it would just hurry up and show up so I can stop dwelling on it.

Jules

Hi Jules and all
I'm either 6 or 8 dpo today (had a weird up then down again thing on my chart) and last night started spotting. So usually this means AF isn't far behind. Sigh. It's hard to stay positive when you just feel like you're in a defective body!
Am having an acupuncture appointment today. Have contemplated knocking it on the head as it doesn't seem to have made any difference this month (this will be my 4th appointment) but promised myself I'd at least give it two cycles to see what it did, if anything.
Just waiting on my appointment at Kings as can't wait to get in there and beg for my Clomid. Have convinced myself this will be my holy grail so goodness knows what I'll be like if it doesn't make a difference! It doesn't really bear thinking about at this stage...x

Hi all,

Pleased to have found this thread. My LP used to be 10 days, and it took me about a year to get pregnant (had a m/c in between) with my first. Since my periods started after bf my cycles have been crazy - from 13 to 34 days - and my LP, when I have one, shortened down to 7 days. We've now been TTC #2 for 15 months, and I turn 41 on Friday.

I went to my gp after 6 months, because of my age, and she told me to wait for 12 months (!), so I went to a different gp in the same practice who referred me to the NHS fertility specialist. I've had a number of day 21 progesterones, which I dutifully booked for after I had ovulated, until I got wise and took it on the actual day 21, so of course I hadn't ovulated.

DH and I also went to a private fertility specialist, who didn't find anything overtly wrong (other than my age), so recommended IVF. Sigh.

But NHS specialist did HSG test, which came back as 'probably normal' (uh, thanks for that definitive report). The junior dr I saw the first time said to just keep trying as everything looked ok. I told her about the short LP, but she said I was probably wrong because the 'temperature method' of confirming ovulation was 'not generally accepted' (!!) I went back for the HSG results, and saw another junior dr who essentially wouldn't answer any questions as she said she didn't want to give me the wrong information (fair enough, I guess). She went to speak with the mysterious consultant who I have yet to see, and I asked her to mention my short LP again, and my age, not expecting any result at all. She came back with a prescription of Clomid! I could have cried. Have no idea why they prescribed it, but took it and ran!

So I'm now on CD7 on my first cycle with Clomid. We're holding off on the IVF for now, until we complete the 6-month course. I also use the CBFM and am on my second cycle with the DuoFertility monitor, so at least I don't drive my DH and myself insane taking my temp every morning.

I so desperately want this Clomid to work. DH said if my moods get too bad (they're generally pretty poor because I'm SO stressed out by TTC) he'll ask me to stop taking the Clomid, but I plan to lie through my teeth and keep taking it.

I am utterly heartbroken about my inability to conceive another child, and sometimes can't bring myself to meet up with my mummy friends from my first pregnancy who are now all on their second.

Apologies for this lengthy tome. Looking forward to chatting with you all.

Mapleleaf134
Nice to 'meet' you. Sounds like you've had quite a journey to get your Clomid prescription! I think I'm learning from you and the other ladies on this thread to go through the motions - because if I keep just harping on about my short LP I probably won't really get any further!

I wish you all the best with your Clomid run - let me know how you get on. Are you being monitored or left to your own devices? And were you given a prescription for the whole six months in one go?

Sorry - just being nosey and trying to work out what's normal/usual!

MrsHY1 x

MapleLeaf134 - The best advice I was ever given about clomid was to take it at night before bed. It gives you a hormone boost which causes the side effects if you can havethem in your sleep all the better! Clomid works by boosting your ovulation causing you to ovulate earlier than waiting for your body to reach the same hormone levels. You must be monitored on clomid - are you having monthly day 21 tests? or scans? The minimum you should accept is monthly bloods or they will never know if it is actually making you ov or not and adjust you dose accordingly. I started on 50mg it didn't work so they upped it to 100mg. If nothing has been done through your clinic then tell the GP you need the tests monthly and you can then ring the consultant with the results and check your dose is correct.

MrsHY1 - I am being monitored, kind of. I have to have a day 21 test, then ring the clinic for the result, then have a day 28 test if I haven't ovulated. They said they'd do 2 cycles on 50 mg, and then reassess. They gave me a box of 30 tablets, so we'll see how far that gets me!

blueberry...Safari (sorry, being lazy) - thanks for that advice. Too late for this cycle, but I'll try that for the next one (see how 'optimistic' I'm being?). I wish I was having scans, but at least the blood tests are something. After all the money we've spent on the CBFM and ridiculously expensive sticks, private consultations and now the DuoFertility monitor, for a £7 box of pills to do the trick would be hilarious (and marvellous!).

Hello, Hopefully starting to use my CBFM tomorrow... so hopefully will find out if my lutual phase is really short or I ov before I think I do...

Good morning all,

Maple- I really hope Clomid works for you and I am going to make a doctors appointment soon to maybe consider going down that or some other sort of route myself.

Karbea - good luck with the monitor.

I'm on day 31 - 11 DPO The longest cycle I have had in months. Over the last 8 months I am usually 26 or 27 days. I did a pregnancy test this morning and nothing, A BFN.

I am just so sick of being disappointed time after time, I really thought that I might have been in with a chance this morning. - Sorry for the moan, I am feeling sorry for myself today.

I hope everyone is having a better morning.

Jules

Hi Julesabs
I would feel just like you... as my LP is only 9/10 days if I got to 11 I'd be certain I was PG - but remember = 11 dpo is still early and a BFP probably won't show up yet! Just because we have shorter LPs, I still think you need to be a certain number of dpo (usually) to have the hormones show up on a HPT.
If you haven't got your period yet then you're still in with a shout.
But I KNOW how you feel about the crushing disappointment each month... really I do.
Try and look on the bright side - that's a nearly normal LP - even if AF comes that's a great step in the right direction, no?
x

MrsHY1 - Thank you and you are right 11 dpo is a great sign. I was just feeling a bit down, I've had a cup of coffee and I am now in a much better place. I'm trying to be quietly optimistic.

I did read somewhere that on average people don't get a positive until 13 dpo.

Thanks for the reply and understanding. All this TTC is just so tiring.

x

Hey JulesAbs - hang on in there. If you're 11DPO today and you've normally got your period by now that's a good sign that things are going in the right direction. When I got my only positive which seems so long ago now, I tested on 13dpo and it was negative, it didn't come up positive until about 17DPo. I tthink it just depends. Cross fingers AF doesn't show. I haven't got to 12DPO since my m/c 9 months ago so if I got there, i would be almost certain i was pregnant.

I spoke to my GP about my 10/11 LP yesterday and she just shrugged her shoulders. I don't understand...why is that a top New York fertility doctor has written on his blog about LP and if people know that they are getting their period 11 dpo or less then he said they should be treated accordingly. It seems that a strong, long luteal phase is desirable as short ones can mean harder to get pregnant and more chance of m/c so why can't it be treated?? it 's really infruriating...sorry for the rant!

Thanks, Jules. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! I agree that you should remain cautiously optimistic . Apparently, 18 days of high temps is confirmatory, but I don't know who, especially those of us with short LPs, could wait that long!

joycep - I find that GPs in general (and I'm sure there are some exceptions) follow their NHS guidelines, which are slow to be updated, and they resist thinking out of the box. One of the GPs in my practice was like this, but was willing to do what I asked her, even if just to humour me. I say 'was' because she has now retired! Back to the drawing board.

However, even saying that, the private specialist we saw didn't seem to care about my short LP either. In fact, I have this huge wad of papers detailing every cycle I've had over the past 15 months, and I have not been able to get a single person to look at them. Not one. Even my husband tried with the private guy because he knew how upset I'd be, but to no avail. It's so frustrating . There, that's my rant for the day as well.

Hi Everyone,

I can't believe how this thread has taken off!

I went to the Drs yesterday and he has referred me to see a gyno who I will see next week. I think he agreed with me that there wasn't enough time between ovulation and my spotting/period. He is referring me to the gyno to see if they can do anything to stop the spotting.

Interestingly, he said that it is very difficult to get an appointment with the NHS fertility clinic, and they will do everything they can to not see you. So I asked the Dr what he could do, and he said that he could prescribe Clomid if the Gyno agreed. I am just hoping that the gyno sees my short LP as a genuine problem.

I created a spreadsheet with the following fields to highlight the short LP. The Dr said it was very useful as he could see that there was a trend.

Month
No of days bleed
CBFM Peak Cycle Day (ovulation)
No of days betwen ovulation and next bleed (luteal phase)
Cycle Length

I've been reading that reflexology success thread and I'm thinking that I may try alternating accupuncture and reflexology on a weekly basis.

Joycep, what is the blog you are referring to?

Onedaybaby - your GP sounds great! Out of interest can you take clomid if you are ovulating?

Here is that blog - there are two other pages somewhere he has written on LPD.

infertilityblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/luteal-phase-defect-3.html

Joycep - yes you can, it just boosts ovulation and makes it happen earlier in the cycle but it does increase you twins risk considerably.

Joycep - thanks for the link for the blog I spent my entire coffee break reading bits from it.

AF still hasn't shown it's head for me, which puts me at 12 dpo - I haven't tested today, but if it hasn't arrived I will test tomorrow. Even still I am excited to see 12 dpo.

I'm still trying not to get overly excited, but I can't help feeling hopeful.

How's everyone's morning going?

Onedaybaby - What a great idea keeping an excel, I am going to copy that :) I have all the info but it's just unceremoniously scribbled in my diary.

Jules - i'm really crossing fingers for you, I'm getting excited for you!. Is this the first time you have seen 12dpo since your m/c? Am I right in thinking you have had 2 m/cs?
Oneday - great idea to put the figures down so they can see. I'm going to steal that idea for my next visit!

Joycep, I have only been tracking for the last 6 months, it's eight months since my last miscarriage (sadly I have had 2), but the closest I have gotten is 10 days. I keep getting nervous every time I have to go to the bathroom just in case AF has finally showed up.

Hello! I found this thread as thinking about TTC no. 2, and thought I would let you know my short LP story, and subsequent successful pregnancy to hopefully give you all some encouragement.

I came off the pill, and through charting and OPKs discovered I had an LP of about 9 days. I took Agnus Castus & B100 Complex, and Red Raspberry Leaf for a couple of months, but my LP didn't increase. I then read somewhere that Dong Quai could also be useful, so I started taking that too, and that month I became PG. I don't know if it helped, or if my 9 day LP was actually enough to get PG, but something worked! Dong Quai helps balance hormones and also helps implantation, so maybe it did something.

Since charting again I have discovered I have a 9 day LP again. I have been taking a cocktail of B100 Complex, Agnus Castus & Dong Quai again, and this month my LP increased to 13 days! Am hoping the same will happen again next month.

If you have any questions, let me know - I'm more than happy to help.

Hi MaryThornbar

Thanks for sharing your story! Do you mind me asking whether you went back on the pill between your children? Reason I ask is that a lot of ladies' luteal phases seem to adjust from short to normal after a few months of being off the pill - whereas I've not been on the pill for over 10 years so think I'm stuck with mine!
I guess I'm just wondering how much the agnus castus/B vits/dong quai played a role and how much was your body just re-adjusting to normal. We'll never know though I guess!
Very best of luck with TTC number 2!
x

Hi MrsHY1! No I didn't go back on the pill - I wanted to see what my body was doing. I BFd for 9 months though and didn't get periods until then - it's been about 6 months now. It may just have been my body readjusting, and it may just be naturally readjusting again now, but I have always had short cycles, even before I went on the pill, and only discovered I was ovulating late when TTC number 1. I hope you're not stuck with yours! I suppose you've tried everything?

Hi gang,

Have been in follicular phase and trying to focus on non ttc stuff for a bit, but I went to the private consultant recommended by Joycep today and thought I would let you guys know what she said, along with my symptoms, as I know many of you have similar patterns.

She said I may have a slight hormone imbalance which would make it harder to get preggers, and might increase miscarriage risk. She came to this conclusion for the following reasons (as far as I can tell):

I have been pregnant but miscarried around 6 weeks
Have been trying for 11 months
Late lh surge around day 15
Spotting for days before AF
Luteal phase from ovulation to spotting between 7 to 11 days, luteal phase from ovulation to first day of full AF 10 to 14 days
My womb looks fine
No reason to think there is a problem with my tubes

Plan of action for now:
Progesterone to help support luteal phase this month
Clomid or similar next month to help with hormones and bring ovulation forward

Will be going for another ultrasound on Thursday and for blood tests soon.

PS She said Vit B makes nooooo difference to LP. She has done research on it! She told me and hubby to take a multivitamin and said she didn't think acupuncture would be useful for me. She only said that after the ultrasound, and am not sure why she decided against it, as she said she might be recommending it before the ultrasound.

Joycep She was lovely. Thank you so much for the recommendation. I had told my GP and the NHS consultant all the same things, but for the first time today I felt like someone was really sitting down and looking at the whole picture and trying to help me find out what was going on. We will be redoing the blood tests, because, as I suspected, my GP did the fsh/lh tests at the wrong time of the month. (It is going to be super expensive though - I'm down £850 already, and will probably have got through £1500 by the end of the month. So do try to get your insurance to cover it if you can.)

Mary Thanks for the encouragement!

Mapleleaf MrsHY1 I never thought Clomid or something similar would be recommended for me, as I do ovulate, but as blueberry said it can help to make you ovulate earlier, and if we were to ovulate earlier, then our LPs would be longer. Yay!

onedaybaby If they offer you progesterone - take it! I was offered it months ago on the NHS, but then the consultant said 'why don't you try on your own for another six months' and I foolishly agreed.