I was reminded 'Well at least you've already got a child' today, took the wind out of my sails.......

[Norfolkbumpkin]

I was chatting with a friend today about out problems conceiving, and in a friendly/sympathetic tone she stated the immortal lines......I honestly thought it was an urban myth that people said 'well at least you've already got a child'. It just knocked me for six and I was totally lost for a response. How are you supposed to react/follow on from this statement?? I felt (and still feel) a bit miffed.

Activate - I disagree that pain is not relative to others. I think people often take inspiration from others and how they cope with difficult situations. It can help people realise what they themselves are capable of. It can help "put things in perspective", a phrase which, after all, describes exactly what we are talking about.

Activate - bringing up your life limiting condition is manipulative. It feels as if you are trying to make ominolap feel bad.

and from my perspective I'm afraid that realtivism and 'inspiration' is trite and designed to please those who do not have to go through things.

Although if I'm magnaminous I would say that on days I can be inspired by others fortitude but today is not one of those days.

It is easy to spout these ideals, it is not, I'm afraid eady to live them

good ihearthuckabees you got it - exactly as I was trying to point out - it sure is manipulative

Oh OK, I get it now

"Being inspired" may be trite, but it can be the starting point.

I often think this, but would never say it out loud.

A few people said it to me when I was trying to conceive DD2 and suffering losses. I see their point, tbh. While I was grieving for the family I had thought (and failed) I would have, I was still far luckier than many people. Being able to count your blessings is a good thing.

The thing that made me cry was when someone said to me "I'm not going to give you platitudes and tell you you'll have another child. Let's face it, you might not." I was furious, but actually even that was true and made me focus on what I already had, once I had emerged from the red mist.

Agree with getdown and iheart - I had one child with fertility treatment at age 42, and tried for a second (with fertility treatment) at age 44.

I had half a dozen sessions with an osteopath who specialises in fertility. He gave me some advice that helped me focus, when he advised that I do everything I possibly could to conceive within a specific time frame, but to pick a 'stopping point'.

He had witnessed (and assisted) many women who became driven to the point of obsession about wanting a second/third/etc child. The desire consumed their time, their emotional energy and their bank accounts - and definitely interfered with their ability to fully enjoy the family they already had.

I was unfortunately not able to have a second child - and of course, have 'what if' moments, and sometimes wonder if I didn't try hard enough or long enough. Or if I should have ventured further into the realm of scientific assistance/intervention to have a second dhild. There is always the thought that 'just one more' try of IVF or differerent fertility drugs/dosage might have done the trick, or maybe if I'd had fertility reflexology or meditation, or , or, or. It can go on forever.

But the words of that doctor helped me immensely - in the immortal words of the Stones "you can't always get what you want". A bit flippant perhaps, but accepting that is a huge life lesson.

And in the meantime, I enjoy my miracle daughter and am grateful for her every day.

But isn't there a practical element to "at least you've already got a child", as in you know you can carry a baby to term and deliver safely because you've already done it once. If you're ttc your first, that's a completely different kettle of fish. I mc'd around the same time as my friend, I had a child already, she didn't. I felt the experience was far harder for her than for me, because I had done it before & had confidence that I could do it again, she had no such reassurances.

I have four children.

When pregnant with DD1 (who is DC3 if that makes sense) I tore a strip off my MIL and SIL (now thankfully EX).

DD1 was a twin and we lost her twin during the pregnancy.

MIL said that I still had the other one.

I said if I'd lost a leg you'd hardly tell me to be grateful for the one I still had.

As you were.

Not sure why I even posted this

Sorry OP - not helpful

Yes maybe I should be grateful for what I have. I miscarried in March due to the stress of dh being suddenly very ill in hospital with pneumonia and nearly died. If only he wasn't ill then things would be different now. We are being referred for fertility tests to check that I am o.k. and more importantly dh, as he has had a lot of radiation and drugs since March. Maybe I am just an oversensitive, selfish fool and should really blame dh for getting ill and scaring the living daylights out of me......

Norfolk you have plenty to be sensitive about, I'm just saying people don't always get it right but they're not necessarily getting it wrong out of malice iyswim. I do hope things get better for you soon, sounds like you have had a proper shit time :(

Sorry you've had such an awful time Norfolkbumpkin I wish you well with conceiving your second.

Hope you don't feel hurt by anything here, it's just a discussion and people have different views, but no one is taking away from the pain you have been through.

There's some great come backs on here for the next time someone says something like that...

www.pregnancyloss.info/dealing_with_others.htm#thoughtless

I think trying to "cheer someone up" or make them look at the positives they have before they are ready will hinder them grieving properly. You do need to be allowed to be sad for what you have lost, if you are not allowed to grieve you will never be able to get over it and move on.

For everyone on this thread who has miscarried, I am so sorry that you lost something so precious to you. Dont let anyone make you feel like it was no big deal. xxxxx

what GetDown said... in spades

I have two children. It took me two years to conceive the first one. The second is adopted. I have had a long, hard struggle to get both of them and I am intensely sympathetic to people suffering either primary or secondary infertility.

I would never say to an individual, "At least you've already got one child". It's insensitive and unhelpful. On the other hand, when I was struggling to conceive my first I was frequently irked by friends and acquaintances telling me that their problems conceiving a second child were as bad as my situation. It wasn't. 'Knowing what you're missing' is not as bad as never becoming a parent. When I was going through the painful road to adoption I was always aware that, however exhausting and traumatic it undoubtedly was, I was already a mother and so would never again plumb the depths of desperation and despair I had when struggling to conceive my first.

I agree with whoever said pain is what you bear personal to you. It is wholly subective and not relative to the suffering of others.

Sadly I think the makers of these comments fall into two categories:

Those that simply do not know what to say but want to say something and accordingly offer a thoughtless platitude.

Those that genuinely believe their pain is worse than yours and feel no shame in making that clear to a friend who is suffering.

Norfollkbumpkin, I think you need to see beyond what your friend actually said (well at least you've already got a child) to the sentiment behind those words. Even if the words weren't comforting to you, at least they were kindly meant, and that can only be a good thing.

So many people don't know how to deal with others' infertility problems, and you do need to develop a very thick skin to be able to cope during this difficult time, because if you are going to react badly to every insensitive comment you get, it will affect your mood and attitude - and with the psychology of conception being as important as the physiology, you can't afford to allow yourself to be needled.

You have your own private and deeply felt grief - if others don't fully understand it or share it, it doesn't negate or diminish what you feel, and why you feel it. Take comfort and support where it's offered, however clumsily, and reserve your anger for those who are spiteful or cruel (and I hope that you don't meet any people like that).

Good luck. One of these months you will strike lucky, and you will be holding your new baby nine months later. Keeping my fingers crossed for you and all other ladies on this thread who are ttc.

norfolk I'm with you. (Not looking for sympathy here) after our DS2 was stillborn FT I've had people say that to me. I then had 2 years of secondary infertility and by then had a very lovely doctor who listened to my fears/tears and was very understanding and said very nicely, after a long conversation, that if I got pregnant again it would be the cherry on the cake, but if I didn't I would still have the cake. Which was true and the same thing but much more nicely put than 'be thankful for what you've got'. And was her way of saying in her educated view ' you know it might not happen'. Oh and I've also had people (who have never m/c) say to me after a m/c 'at least you can get pregnant' as if getting pregnant guarantees a baby!

batty big hugs, I can just imagine the comments.

It is just things people say, for want of knowing what else to say. Babydust to you xxx

I do not like the 'there is always someone worse off than you' type of comments. As someone has already said, they are not said to comfort the recipient, only to make the sayer feel clever/smug/helpful.

Yes, there is always someone worse off than you, but there is always someone better off too.

Its ok for me to say to myself 'pull yourself together you silly cow, there is always etc etc'. Its not ok for others to do it.

I wouldnt dream of telling someone who was worried about their sick or disabled child 'well at least your child is alive'. How would that help? Anymore than reminding someone they already have a child, they know that. They want another child and it hurts that they cannot.

ttalloo has wise words. Try and look behind your friends words. If she is your friend it will have been kindly meant. People are rarely spitful, often clumsy and usually trying to help.

Best wishes with ttc.

Oh, and Norfolkbumpkin - IME there is no end to the stupid, thoughtless things people say when others are going through infertility/miscarriage/loss of a child/terminal disease, whatever....

Try not to dwell on it. The only important thing here is that you are going through a rough time, and have the right to expect friends to support you through it.

I really hope you get your baby soon. Best of luck.

Thank you all for your comments/advice. I guess I am super-sensitive at the moment and need to develop more of a rhino hide when it comes to people chipping in. My mum and dad both passed away some years ago, and when I hear people chuntering on about their interfering parents I do find myself THINKING ' I would love to still have the luxury of having mine around'. But I would never throw it into the conversation.

I don't think I'd ever say this to someone, although I suppose I may say "Oh but you have your wonderful DS / DD..." maybe, though possibly not after reading this. And if the person I was talking to had just MC or had a stillbirth god forbid I would't dare say anything. Having a child already does not make the loss any easier (only the person going though it could say this if they did in fact get comfort from it).

I'm lucky and have a gorgeous DS. I haven't yet TTC number two and who knows how that will go and how I'll feel if it goes wrong. But, I have three friends who haven't for various reasons been able to have a child, some experiencing miscarriages, or not even getting as far as conception, and all going though the awful experience of fertility treatment. Personally, as much as I want to have more children, if that never happens, I will always feel so much more blessed than my childless friends who desparately want children but are unable to have them. And that is why a comment such as what the OP's friend said may, just may, cross my lips.

ttalloo is right - try to look beyond the words. If they were said in misguided comfort focus on the sentiment.

However, there are people who don't make these comments to comfort anyone but themselves. Like Jobob I have had a 'friend' comment that at least I have a child whilst I was struggling with grief and TTC after the stillbirth of my DC3.

We argued and she maintains (amongst mutual friends) that she was entitled to make such a comment because the pain of never having been pregnant (although she now has a DC) is worse in her opinion than losing a child.

Most decent people accept that pain cannot be measured, especially raw pain.

And that's the point isn't it. Pain is not a competitve, qualitative thing. You can't measure it.

Deep down in the very depths of my emotions I would almost certainly think 'crikey, be grateful for what you do have' as I'm 4yrs into my ttc No1 journey and have suffered 4mc. But the rational part of me would never actually say that to anybody.

Because my grief is no bigger, no more important than yours.

I wish you the best in your journey and can only hope that the friend who said this to you said it with the best of intentions.

PnM x