Assisted Conception (and the bits in between) Volume 6

[rowingboat]

Hi all,
I just went to post on the old thread and noticed it had been locked, so here is a new one!
Come on in!

Italian - slimming world does work if you do what it says ... I didn't believe it but it does. Even when I haven't stuck to it I have realised I have changed how I eat!! And you can have chocolate on it, just that is more limited. How does it work?
You follow either: Green Plan (vegetarian), Red (lots of meat), Extra Easy (most common choice!) ... I do green as vegetarian and I can eat as much of the below list as possible:
Fresh fruit and vegetables
Fat free yoghurt and all other foods classes as "superfree" - need to look up my list to be right!
Then as much of free foods as you like (but superfree shoudl be a third of what you eat) which includes:
pasta, rice and potatoes.

Then, you have choices of dairy, cereals and bread - known as healthy extras each day. Other food is either "free" - lots more foods are than what I put above, or they have points/syns attached (syns is term used, I don't like it as a word though) - so a curlywurly is 6 syns, a fudge 5 syns etc .... you get a book with it all in, access to the website etc. They recommend you have 5-15 syns a day. Costs about £5-10 to join, then £4.95 a week for me anyway.

Italian - for me I needed to lose weight healthiy so if got pregnant naturally it wasn't an issue. I stick to it, but don't count my syns as such anymore - if I go over, I know I do but have only put on weight once ... a diet that allows chocolate, biscuits, ice-cream I like it! I am losing weight slowly due to starting ICSI now, don't want big losses right now.

Sorry to all - long waffle by me!

Hi Kezia - just want to wish you luck with the injections. You will be fine with them. The idea of it is much worse than the actual injection. I got quite expert with them. they don't reeally hurt and if you've got a belly/thigh to grab a big pinch of then (like me!!!) you've got nothing to worry about. The whole process take about 3 minutes including the preparation time. My DH would help prepare the injection but said he wouldn't inject me because he didn't want to hurt me. I did ask him loads of times to do the injection so he would feel involved but he always declined. Have you and DH/DP had a tuition session with your clinic? Are you NHS funded?

Fact: The "ideal age," physically, for a woman to have a baby is under the age of 30. "Fertility peaks from age 20 to 25 and begins to decrease at age 30," says Dr. Patricia Tiernan, MD, OB-GYN, from Bourbonnais, Illinois.

Fact: Almost all of the additional family income from sending women to work went into additional finance for buying a property resulting merely in raising overall property prices for everyone.

Fact: The likelihood of having a baby born with Down's syndrome increases with the mother's age:
?20 years - 1 in 1,500
?35 years - 1 in 350
?40 years - 1 in 100
?45 years - 1 in 30

Hello everyone,

BB hope they stick good luck

KC11 Oh my heart goes out to you, I was in your situation last year. It seemed DH had no idea what I was going through and I kept on seeing friends marry and then almost dread a phone call three months later to announce their good news. I really don't know what the answer to coping is, I did see a counsellor at the fertility centre two or three times and I actually think it helped me. My parents were great and I completely leant on them and tried not to talk as much to DH about it all ( not sure if that is the right thing to do). Just to let you know that after 5 years of trying I conceived with IVf and am now 20 weeks pregnant. I still can't believe it and haven't bought a thing yet incase it all disappears. Just keep on hoping and try everything you can but use other people outside as it can take the pressure off your relationship. People say having children really stresses a relationship they should try ttc!!!! Take care of yourself and don't underestimate the effect ttc has on you - sending you tons of good luck

Had my 20 week scan last week - all good so far will keep you updated - good luck to everyone going through their cycles - I know how rubbish keeping off alcohol and trying to be healthy is when all you want to do is go crazy and forget about ttc. Take care

BB, your injection is likely to be a GnRH agonist, which will switch your ovaries off until treatment starts. The most common ones are Prostap and Suprecur I think, and it's also available as a nasal spray, which is often better for side effects as you take it 3 times a day rather than one huge giant dose which has to last you until stims start. If you have to go through this again, (and hopefully you won't) it might be worth considering this as an alternative.

hi everyone... i am back from my three week jaunt to aus and am mightily jetlagged... i havent read all the previous posts yet (well only those on this page) but would love to send a big wave to the delightful threetimespink who i think wins this years award for 'Most Helpful Poster'... a large rosette is heading your way...

had my first appt at argc today. too tired to digest anything so will ponder over the coming days...

will catch up later!

threetimespink - I think you may have mistaken our thread for a Daily Mail messgae board.

Hi ladies,

Hope you're all okay this evening - I'm pooped! Still learning my new job and had a "challenging" afternoon! Chilling out with a de-caf tea and CSI now though :)

Italian - loving your "Apprentice-isms"!!! I remember you mentioning candida (always sounds like an exotic dancer to me!) the other day - I had a really bad episode of candida a few years ago. It did make me bloated but my main symptom was urticaria - itching hives. I went on an anti-candida diet (no sugar / alcohol / funghi / fruit / alochol / caffiene) which was pretty extreme but my hives went away and never came back, my bloating went away and I lost 10lbs in 3 weeks (which did eventually come back!). Have you tried peppermint tea, though? I find that's the best thing for bloating.

BB - hi there!! It's been a while! Sounds like you're having a bit of a nightmare - I have a RL firend who's on Prostap at the moment and it's turned her into a complete Zombie! I think that as you're having such a tough time that you should get the opportunity to choose where to stick threetimespink's rossette and to do the honours

Hey BagofHolly & lateatwork - nice to meet you! I started hanging round here at the beginning of the year when I did my first cycle (unsuccessful) and have been lurking on and off ever since. I'm back now as I'm "in training" for my next cycle which I'm planning on doing next March-ish.

Right - I'm off. My mum was having a knee-replacement operation today (I wonder if threetimespink has any views on that?) so I'm going to call my dad and find out how she got on.

Night!

Late--Am thinking of going to ARGC...just asked today for an information pack to be sent. Hope you had a great time in Australia!

Vallinapod--I had my two for one at The Bridge Centre at London Bridge. They're very kind and lovely there. I figure I might as well ask them if I can be accepted into the two for one program again, and if they say no, then onwards and upwards.

Italian--I looked up the Rosemary Conley program while I was in the US, it looks very good. I think what I'm going to do is join Curves, as it is right up the road from me. I feel very committed, but now I have to find the time to go and get an initial consult.

KC--Hang in there sweetie!

Rowing--Even though my cycle was unsuccessful, thanks for the posts that cracked me up.

Poppy--Has it been 20 weeks already?! YAY! I'm so excited and happy for you...

As for me, my follow-up appointment is Nov.1 at The Bridge. If they don't allow me another two for one, then it looks like either ARGC or CRGH, as their single cycles are less expensive than where I am now. I am going to an open evening at CRGH on Nov.3, and I'll take it from there.

My holiday in America with DH was lovely, the weather was gorgeous, and I got to spend quality time with my handsome nephew. My sister is very inspirational in terms of weight loss and getting in shape. She had lost about eighty pounds, then got pregnant, but continued to exercise and watch what she ate throughout. So I have someplace to go for advice if I need it.

Waves and chocolate biscuits to anyone I missed...

Lissysilver, I had my treatments at ARGC, shout if I can be of any help.

Hi all
Welcome back holiday ladies!!
How lovely to see how busy it is on here!
LAW laughing at your 'award' to threetimespink. I didn't even read that post, it looked a bit boooring! So had to go back and look....
Some people think they know it all don't they and can't stand seeing people doing it all wrong! So annoying! Oo! Listen to mee!

Thanks for all the wishes and support ... however as we arrived with our drugs and needles etc to learn how to do injections and to do the first one today as today day 21 we were told that my Gp has blocked treatment and that not only did it mean we can't start treatment, therefore no injection training needed so time taken off work for no reason as they forgot to tell us this, that even if I did get the go ahead it would be January now due to Christmas closure. However, the if is not very big, as Gp spoke to me and dh and the person in charge of the clinic (no difference if private or nhs)...

I must be the only person to fail a welfare check without having done anything criminal, no violent anything, fully crb'd to work with children for last 12 years, help fun charity events (residential) for kids for over 20 years and a letter of support from my place of work if needed. So off to mental health boards (but with no kids and no chance of them due to male factors think should step off mumsnet).

All the best to you who are pregnant and I really hope the rest of you get the BFP's you long for. x

Hi all,
Keziah, what a nightmare! This has to be a blip doesn't it? You must have recourse to the surgery or whoever is above your GP.
What a horrible shock!
I wish I could advise you, but I do know you will get a lot of help on one of the boards here and will have a plan in place very, very soon.
Please let us know how you are getting on with this, we are all here to support you.

Keziah what is going on! [cross] I can't believe the doc blocked it; can you get to see him/her and see what is going on? I really don't think you should step away at the moment from mumsnet - we want to support you. Please stay and please use this time just to get as fit and healthy as you can. January will be here soon. Thinking of you and praying for you.

Keziah Thanks for the weight loss info. I am so glad it works for you. I have been enjoying doing Rosemary Conley. I do get chocolate on it, but only a little bit a day. I mostly like the exercise. Walking our neighbours? dog is so good and I am now getting so much exercise, which is why it is frustrating that the weight loss is so slow. To date I have lost just over 10 pounds in 5 weeks, so that is about 2 pounds a week.

Babybarrister so sorry that the treatment has been so horrible for you. I really hope you will have a peaceful time from now on and a successful outcome. I really hope you will feel OK about it all, I know it is so stressful and you feel quite negative. I am personally not sure that being positive or negative makes a difference to the outcome! But I think, just allow a little hope in your heart but yes, be realistic too. I was so sure last time that it would work and when it did not I was pretty devastated! I just hope you will have the wonderful outcome we are all hoping for.
Iscream hope your mum's knee op went well. Roll on March; I so hope we will be cycle buddies this time around.

Lissy Is Curves a national chain or a one off? I think my curves have curves! All best wishes for your appointments and checking out the options. 80 pounds, wow that is like 5 and a half stone isn't it! Amazing! Did she do the curves thing?

Poppy glad to hear from you; hope all will continue well, half way there!

Rowing, Bagofholly, Vallinapod and all. Love and waves and arrow prayers for us all.

chuntitude from an insensitive thicktard..
Threetimespink posted this on the Assisted Conception thread, out of the blue:

Fact: The "ideal age," physically, for a woman to have a baby is under the age of 30. "Fertility peaks from age 20 to 25 and begins to decrease at age 30," says Dr. Patricia Tiernan, MD, OB-GYN, from Bourbonnais, Illinois.

Fact: Almost all of the additional family income from sending women to work went into additional finance for buying a property resulting merely in raising overall property prices for everyone.

Fact: The likelihood of having a baby born with Down's syndrome increases with the mother's age:
?20 years - 1 in 1,500
?35 years - 1 in 350
?40 years - 1 in 100
?45 years - 1 in 30

I PM?d him/her to ask what reaction they?d wanted. This was the correspondence.

From: BagofHolly
To: threetimespink
Subject: your post on the assisted conception thread
Date: Tue 19-Oct-10 17:49:05
What made you post that? I'm interested. And what sort of a reaction would you like ideally?

From: threetimespink

To: BagofHolly
Subject: Re: your post on the assisted conception thread
Date: Tue 19-Oct-10 19:03:48
Seeing children of my many of my friends in the late 30-ties and early 40-ties born with a maltitude of medical conditions way-way above average and suffering now and for the rest of their lifes for what - just to satisfy their mums "longing for a baby" because those mums wasted prime reproduction years selfishly "making a career" or simply simply f*cking about and around.

From: BagofHolly
To: threetimespink
Subject: Re: your post on the assisted conception thread

Date: Tue 19-Oct-10 20:52:54
What 'maltitude of medical conditions' are you referring to? As far as I understand it's mainly a couple of genetic conditions which are more common in older mothers but I'm willing to be corrected. If you knew that these women would have healthy babies, would you feel differently?
These friends of yours - did they all delay motherhood because they were selfish about their careers, or 'fucking about and around'? How do you feel about women who haven't been able to have children late because of their own or their partner's medical problems?
You haven't said what sort of a reaction you wanted or what you thought your post would do, by the way.

From: threetimespink

To: BagofHolly
Subject: Re: your post on the assisted conception thread
Date: Tue 19-Oct-10 21:05:37
If I knew?

We know that there is a biological clock. You cannot just ignore statistics and pretend that there will be healthy babies!

It took a friend of mine a ill-borned baby and 3 MC's to accept that 40 is the wrong age and go for 3 adoptions instead.

I did not want reaction. If you have noticed there were no emotions in that post - just facts. And from my experience I know that many women are aware of the IVF without being aware of those "other" facts.

So, may be those facts will help some of them to recognise the forces of nature and be more careful what they really wish for, make a better informed decision and think not just for themselves.

BagofHolly
To: threetimespink
Subject: Re: your post on the assisted conception thread

Date: Tue 19-Oct-10 21:23:45
But only a very very tiny percentage of babies born to older mothers have health problems. That really is a fact. Granted it's more than for younger women but it still represents less than 1% of the total. But as I say, if you knew that older women were able to have healthy babies, would you feel the same? One of the advantages of IVF is that embryos are screened before they're returned to the uterus, so actually IVF babies tend to be healthier than naturally conceived babies from mothers of the same age.
And what about older women who use donor eggs from younger women - their biological clock is effectively reset to the age of the donor so again they're even more likely to give birth to healthy babies.
You didn't reference any of your facts, incidentally. And your stats relating to Downs are only for the total population, whereas in reality, adjustments are made for each individual woman during pregnancy, based on a number of tests including Nuchal Translucency and the Triple test, so it's very common to have younger women carrying babies with high risk factors for Down's/Trisonomy and older women who come out as low risk. I'll reference these properly if you're interested.
Adoption isn't always an option as there are far fewer babies available than there are interested potential families.
So I'm confused - is your concern the health of the babies born of assisted conception or compassion or something else?

I didn't get any further replies.

Nice, eh?

Indeed, Londonlottie. I gave them the benefit of the doubt as very occassionally you come across people who have their opinions formed by the Daily Mail etc, and just need a bit of educating. But my shit started to itch at "ill-borned" and "maltitude."

They're more to be pitied than scorned. Perhaps.

Right. So just because I'm over 30 and haven't had a child yet, but want one desperately because I've always wanted to be a mother and lavish love and attention on a child, makes me a selfish twat in threetimespink's eyes. Nice. Adoptions, while amazing, take loads of time and money. If I am able to reproduce, albeit with help, why shouldn't I at least try? I noticed that threetimespink had nothing to say about all the young teenage mothers who are drug addicts or living on welfare. What kind of chances do those kids have? I think if women want to delay starting a family until later in their lives, for whatever reasons, that's their choice. It seems responsible for women or couples to choose to work so that they can provide financially for a child later in life. Threetimespink has some nerve showing up in a forum for women who want to have children but can't, for whatever reason, and spouting facts without thinking of our situations. Shame on you, threetimespink. Your insensitivity is astounding. You should step out of that judgment based little world you've created for yourself and see the suffering of those whose supportive forum you so thoughtlessly gate-crashed.

Hi all,
BoH thank you for posting that and well done on taking on somebody who clearly thought they could post and run.

Lissy the discussion 'If TTP' had stuck around, could drag on and on. You don't have to justify yourself to her.
From my POV there are pros and cons for having children in your twenties, thirties and forties, nothing clear cut. It doesn't help to have a unbalanced opinion based on 'facts' posted by somebody who doesn't care to find out more about the individuals on this and other boards.

This may sound callous, but one of the benefits of having children when you are 'over twenty' is that the children are not left helping to support an ageing parent, when they themselves are not in the best health for age-related reasons.
Poor old DS having to wheel me up and down the prom, how uncool!

Has anyone tried or does anyone know anything about herbs in relation to fertility, please?

I'm thinking of black cohash, false unicorn horn, nettle leaves, primrose oil, red clover, red raspberry leaves, caste tree berry and wild yam. I'm assuing Caste Tree berry is Agnus Castus, is that right?

Hi all,

I have taken everything Italian. Took a stack of red clover, raspberry leaf, alfalfa and wild yam and ended up delaying ovulation. What a nit!

I was taking a huge dose of agnus castus when I became pg with DS.
Go on Holland and Barratt's site, they have stacks on there, from Maca through to horny goat weed (just what it sounds like, don't give it to a goat).

You will go cross-eyed though, at all the permutations.

BagofHolly--What's your take on ARGC? And thanks for representin' (said in American gangsta voice)...

Rowing--You're right, I shouldn't have dignified TTP with a response. It just made me so angry!

Italian--Curves is an international chain. It's circuit training for 30 minutes, so you don't have to take up a huge chunk of your day working out. I'm going to check it out tomorrow...

Love for all you ladies on this forum. I know we can make it to our ultimate destination...Knocked Up Land!!