Page 5 | Do you have a minds eye

PlantingTreesAgain · 2024-02-27T02:03:29+00:00

A bit of fun here to see how many MN have Aphantasia. I’ve posted in competitions as I’m guessing people who enjoy them might find this interesting. This is the ability to see images in our minds. To simply test this. Close your eyes and imagine a red star. Can you see one and to what extent, Post here which image you see numbers 1-6 as you imagine that star . Please note there is nothing wrong if you can’t see a star about 2-3% of the population can’t either. Im also doing AIBU to get a quick tally AIBU - what star? Can people see a star? IANBU - I see a star can’t everyone ?

MewMame · 27/02/2024 11:15

Garlickit · 27/02/2024 11:10

I get that, @PlantingTreesAgain, I just suspect the interpretation of 'seeing' is broader than it sounds. My mind can readily create a pink spotted elephant wearing a hat or a whole herd of them with different coloured spots. If you tell me to picture a spring meadow, I picture one. It's really not like seeing, though.

Dreams can be like seeing, but dreaming when awake is hallucinating. "Picturing in your mind" is more abstract: it's a thought given shape.

But do your pictures have shape and colour? Like if you imagine a triangle then it would be a particular kind of triangle, pointing in a particular way, it would be filled in or not, and have a colour or be in black and white? If I ‘imagine a triangle’ it has none of those, I just have an idea of what a triangle is. I can answer each of those questions one at a time but it would be a lot of separate facts to remember, not a coherent sense of one visual image.

Saladpops · 27/02/2024 11:20

I think there's some misunderstandings here. Aphantasia is the inability to form mental images of objects that aren't present (this is the Oxford dictionary definition). You don't literally see pictures on the inside of your eyelids. You form a mental picture.

So if I think of an otter I can see it as a mental image whether I have my eyes open or closed. I don't see a holographic image of an otter when I have my eyes open that I look through to see other things.

Aphantasia is not being able to create an image in your mind. It also relates to things like sound. If you imagine a horse galloping can you mentally hear a horse galloping? I can. But I heard it in my mind, not through my ears.

It's the same with images. We can't have a literal image of something unless the image is physically projected onto our retinas. This cannot happen with your eyes closed so you cannot see a literal image with your eyes closed. It is physically impossible. When we see an image with our eyes closed it is our brain creating that image not our eyes.

In aphantasia the brain does not create visual images. It thinks without creating images.

Garlickit · 27/02/2024 11:20

MewMame · 27/02/2024 11:15

But do your pictures have shape and colour? Like if you imagine a triangle then it would be a particular kind of triangle, pointing in a particular way, it would be filled in or not, and have a colour or be in black and white? If I ‘imagine a triangle’ it has none of those, I just have an idea of what a triangle is. I can answer each of those questions one at a time but it would be a lot of separate facts to remember, not a coherent sense of one visual image.

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Good question! Yes, the visualisation grows as more detail is suggested. Say "think of an apple" and I picture the last one I saw - now tell me it's a Bramley, and it changes size, shape and colour. Oh, a purple striped Bramley? With one bite taken from it? Yep, done! Hope that purple wasn't toxic 😉

Izzy24 · 27/02/2024 11:20

MewMame · 27/02/2024 10:35

Mostly just as ideas, although sometimes with some fragments of language without sound. I do partly think in words, they just don’t have any voice or sound quality, like the difference between skim reading something and just soaking in the meaning vs reading each word carefully and phonetically. Weirdly I do get songs stuck in my head, there’s somehow some representation of pitch without any sound to it.

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How can you do this without sound? I ‘hear ‘ all my thoughts in words. I don’t know how I could think anything without hearing it?

Izzy24 · 27/02/2024 11:22

Saladpops · 27/02/2024 11:20

I think there's some misunderstandings here. Aphantasia is the inability to form mental images of objects that aren't present (this is the Oxford dictionary definition). You don't literally see pictures on the inside of your eyelids. You form a mental picture.

So if I think of an otter I can see it as a mental image whether I have my eyes open or closed. I don't see a holographic image of an otter when I have my eyes open that I look through to see other things.

Aphantasia is not being able to create an image in your mind. It also relates to things like sound. If you imagine a horse galloping can you mentally hear a horse galloping? I can. But I heard it in my mind, not through my ears.

It's the same with images. We can't have a literal image of something unless the image is physically projected onto our retinas. This cannot happen with your eyes closed so you cannot see a literal image with your eyes closed. It is physically impossible. When we see an image with our eyes closed it is our brain creating that image not our eyes.

In aphantasia the brain does not create visual images. It thinks without creating images.

Yes this - I see things with my ‘mind’s eye’ if that makes it any clearer…

bookworm14 · 27/02/2024 11:24

But do your pictures have shape and colour?

Yes - I can visualise shape, colour, and texture, and can picture (if that’s the right word) what an object would feel, taste or smell like.

Garlickit · 27/02/2024 11:26

In aphantasia the brain does not create visual images. It thinks without creating images.

Honestly, the ability to think without images, or without words, strikes me as some dark magic! It sounds wonderfully efficient.

Original poster

PlantingTreesAgain · 27/02/2024 11:27

Saladpops · 27/02/2024 11:20

I think there's some misunderstandings here. Aphantasia is the inability to form mental images of objects that aren't present (this is the Oxford dictionary definition). You don't literally see pictures on the inside of your eyelids. You form a mental picture.

So if I think of an otter I can see it as a mental image whether I have my eyes open or closed. I don't see a holographic image of an otter when I have my eyes open that I look through to see other things.

Aphantasia is not being able to create an image in your mind. It also relates to things like sound. If you imagine a horse galloping can you mentally hear a horse galloping? I can. But I heard it in my mind, not through my ears.

It's the same with images. We can't have a literal image of something unless the image is physically projected onto our retinas. This cannot happen with your eyes closed so you cannot see a literal image with your eyes closed. It is physically impossible. When we see an image with our eyes closed it is our brain creating that image not our eyes.

In aphantasia the brain does not create visual images. It thinks without creating images.

That all makes a lot of sense
I can’t see the otter as a mental image or hear the horses hooves though. There’s literally nothing

OP posts:

muckymayhem · 27/02/2024 11:28

I really find this so fascinating.

How do people who don't visualize things remember memories? If you were asked to remember your childhood home wouldn't you "see" it in your mind? How can there just be words? I sometimes don't think with images I suppose - if I was doing maths for instance, or if recalling music. There may be a vague image of the performer there but not clearly. If someone asked me to think about where countries are in relation to one another I might visualise a map. What do you do if you can't do that? Do you just "know" things? Are you better at riddles? Things requiring logic?

How do you not get lost all the time? If you can't recall in pictures where you have been? How do you ever find your car? Do you have to say right I'm on level 5, row 12 in the corner and make a mental note?

I don't see these things on my eyelids though - they are at the back of my head, near the top. That is where my memories of what things look like are stored! If I need to imagine something new that happens more towards the front.

Original poster

PlantingTreesAgain · 27/02/2024 11:31

Garlickit · 27/02/2024 11:26

In aphantasia the brain does not create visual images. It thinks without creating images.

Honestly, the ability to think without images, or without words, strikes me as some dark magic! It sounds wonderfully efficient.

Thanks for that, you’re very kind but I’m no Harry Potter.
Just feeling a bit pissed off now 😤

^^

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MythicBish · 27/02/2024 11:32

I’m a 1 but I already knew I had aphantasia.

I’ve tried explaining it to my dh who would see a 6 extremely easy and clearly and he cannot wrap his head around how I can’t picture things in my mind. He just cannot imagine that being possible!

Original poster

PlantingTreesAgain · 27/02/2024 11:36

muckymayhem · 27/02/2024 11:28

I really find this so fascinating.

How do people who don't visualize things remember memories? If you were asked to remember your childhood home wouldn't you "see" it in your mind? How can there just be words? I sometimes don't think with images I suppose - if I was doing maths for instance, or if recalling music. There may be a vague image of the performer there but not clearly. If someone asked me to think about where countries are in relation to one another I might visualise a map. What do you do if you can't do that? Do you just "know" things? Are you better at riddles? Things requiring logic?

How do you not get lost all the time? If you can't recall in pictures where you have been? How do you ever find your car? Do you have to say right I'm on level 5, row 12 in the corner and make a mental note?

I don't see these things on my eyelids though - they are at the back of my head, near the top. That is where my memories of what things look like are stored! If I need to imagine something new that happens more towards the front.

I do get lost all the time. Or I did until the invention of satnav

I used to head out on a day trip with the kids telling them ‘let’s go to Howletts wild animal park’ a place we went to all the time.
But would invariably end up at Leeds castle 🤣🤣🤣or some other vague place.
I just thought I had a terrible sense of direction.

Id get lost walking around my own building sites too, buildings that I’ve spent months designing. I just got used to walking behind the builders in the end. Again I put it down to my sense of direction, or lack there of. Now I’m thinking it’s because of my lack of visualisation.

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MythicBish · 27/02/2024 11:38

But also bizarrely I am a almost perfect ‘facial recogniser’, although I can’t stop to analyse faces or try and picture them as it obviously just doesnt work- it’s like I over think it and then it doesn’t work. I can only explain it almost like an innate knowing and instinct - I just immediately know rather than think.

and I have a brilliant memory and can remember tiny details of random things even from when I was a child (I don’t even really know how that works or how my brain works- all I know is I definitely have aphantasia and I don’t physically see things/pictures in my mind)

shearwater2 · 27/02/2024 11:39

Yes I get lost- need to have gone somewhere four/five times in quick succession then I will remember the route.

Emma8888 · 27/02/2024 11:40

Saladpops · 27/02/2024 11:20

I think there's some misunderstandings here. Aphantasia is the inability to form mental images of objects that aren't present (this is the Oxford dictionary definition). You don't literally see pictures on the inside of your eyelids. You form a mental picture.

So if I think of an otter I can see it as a mental image whether I have my eyes open or closed. I don't see a holographic image of an otter when I have my eyes open that I look through to see other things.

Aphantasia is not being able to create an image in your mind. It also relates to things like sound. If you imagine a horse galloping can you mentally hear a horse galloping? I can. But I heard it in my mind, not through my ears.

It's the same with images. We can't have a literal image of something unless the image is physically projected onto our retinas. This cannot happen with your eyes closed so you cannot see a literal image with your eyes closed. It is physically impossible. When we see an image with our eyes closed it is our brain creating that image not our eyes.

In aphantasia the brain does not create visual images. It thinks without creating images.

It can be both. If you ask me to think of a pink spotted dragon, an instant image flashes in my mind (eyes open, typing). But if I shut my eyes I see the same dragon (the spots are the pink bit, main surface is a purple blue), sitting in a cave, with a red felt hat on. The hat has felt flowers on too. I can look around the cave, left and right, and see the dragon's dressing table, which has the Hollywood light bulbs around it. I can see there's some moss on some of the cave walls. It's a bit damp, there's some dripping water somewhere at the back left. It's as real, visually, as the room I'm in now, it's life experience (and knowing my eyes are closed) that tell me it isn't actually real.

The problem occurs, for me, with night terrors. I see my bedroom, all the furniture; my water on the bedside table. I then see a person. Or an animal. Because I'm not consciously closing my eyes and visualizing my body believes it is real. I will attack the person / animal or run to get away from them. In actual real life this means I run into walls, doors, try and climb out of my window etc. until I'm woken.

myahubal · 27/02/2024 11:42

When I close my eyes I can imagine moving images, scenes like I'm watching tv. But I didn't see a star when I closed my eyes

IncompleteSenten · 27/02/2024 11:45

Izzy24 · 27/02/2024 08:56

This is really difficult for me to grasp- reading the previous posts on this page I have had image after image in my mind whilst reading them.

So you read the posts and see nothing but the screen you are reading from ?

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Yes that's right.
I could read your post then close my eyes and try to picture your post and all I would get would be a visual nothing and me knowing that I'd read your post and what it said.

InMySpareTime · 27/02/2024 11:49

@shearwater2 I also get leftover dream pain. Last time was from a dream where I made my finger into a pressure washer to clean things more easily. The bit of my finger that had dream-sprayed the water hurt all morning and was weirdly a bit paler than the rest of my fingertip.
I can visualise anything I can think of, whether I have actually seen it IRL or not, but I can't make faces appear in very much detail.
Eg if I chose to imagine Greta Thunberg playing the bagpipes while wearing the Wolf suit from "Where the wild things are", I can fully picture that, right down to actually hearing the drone of the bagpipe and seeing the seams of the wolf suit, but couldn't be sure I was imagining Greta Thunberg's eye colour correctly or if I'd just made a colour up.

Natsku · 27/02/2024 11:50

Saladpops · 27/02/2024 11:20

I think there's some misunderstandings here. Aphantasia is the inability to form mental images of objects that aren't present (this is the Oxford dictionary definition). You don't literally see pictures on the inside of your eyelids. You form a mental picture.

So if I think of an otter I can see it as a mental image whether I have my eyes open or closed. I don't see a holographic image of an otter when I have my eyes open that I look through to see other things.

Aphantasia is not being able to create an image in your mind. It also relates to things like sound. If you imagine a horse galloping can you mentally hear a horse galloping? I can. But I heard it in my mind, not through my ears.

It's the same with images. We can't have a literal image of something unless the image is physically projected onto our retinas. This cannot happen with your eyes closed so you cannot see a literal image with your eyes closed. It is physically impossible. When we see an image with our eyes closed it is our brain creating that image not our eyes.

In aphantasia the brain does not create visual images. It thinks without creating images.

I get so confused when people talk about seeing an image with their eyes shut, I thought they were actually seeing it like a photo! While I can make the image with my brain, down to the smallest detail, but I don't see it so I thought there was something wrong with my mind's eye. And I do it with my eyes open more often than with my eyes shut.

LadyEloise1 · 27/02/2024 11:50

That's why I could never visualise sheep to count to help me fall asleep.

Garlickit · 27/02/2024 11:50

Wow, @Emma8888 ! I'm half consumed by envy and half glad I'm not you!

Runningwildish · 27/02/2024 11:51

I can see all the phases of the star from faded to red

IncompleteSenten · 27/02/2024 11:54

I wanted to say also I make and sell things and I know what I want to create, but I can't see what I want to create.
Let's say I want to do a painting of a child kissing a kitten.

I can think of yes a kid and a kitten, I'll have the child kneeling down and b nding forward, I'll have the kitten with their tail in that happy straight up with the curl at the top. The girl can wear a blue dress and the kitten will be a tabby.
They'll be outside on some grass with some roses in the background. Etc etc (this isn't the sort of stuff I actually make btw)

I can know exactly what I want to do but I do it by just knowing, not by having a picture in my mind.

I don't even actually think as in hear words. I just know and it comes out. Like typing this response, I haven't planned it at all. I just knew it as it came out and when I've typed it I will read it back.

There's no awareness of anything that I can say oh yes I can picture that or yes I planned to say this, it's just there somewhere. I can feel it's there but I can't access it in the way you 'access' a photo by looking at it or access a book by reading it. It's more like standing with your back to a bookshop and knowing there's books in there or standing in an art gallery with a blindfold on and knowing you're surrounded by pictures.

I don't know if this even makes sense to anyone

Saladpops · 27/02/2024 11:57

Natsku · 27/02/2024 11:50

I get so confused when people talk about seeing an image with their eyes shut, I thought they were actually seeing it like a photo! While I can make the image with my brain, down to the smallest detail, but I don't see it so I thought there was something wrong with my mind's eye. And I do it with my eyes open more often than with my eyes shut.

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If you think of a tune like Happy Birthday, can you "hear" it in your mind?

RainbowZebraWarrior · 27/02/2024 11:58

HippyChickMama · 27/02/2024 11:02

I have aphantasia, I didn't realise until I was an adult that other people can picture things. I think in words, not pictures, so I can describe things but can't see them in my mind. For me, this means that I also can't estimate distances or sizes/volumes nor recognise people out of context. I am autistic and I do wonder whether it's linked. I also have a form of synesthesia, I associate things and people with colours and numbers

I also have Aphantasia and am Autistic.

I do have very vivid dreams though. DD is 12 and also has aphantasia, but never or rarely dreams (or doesn't remember them) The upside to this is that she has never had a nightmare.