20-minute neighbourhood

[WorkinMumsince4ever]

Hi mum’s!
i wanted to share something with you. Yesterday someone dropped a leaflet on my door mentioning the plans to get my council under the 20-minute neighbourhood.

This means cars (including electric) will be allowed to go outside a 20 minute perimeter, for a number of times (per Year?)

Families I know (mine included) cannot fit in that pattern, and there is no public transportation that we can rely on. Basically transportation is being capped in the name of the “climate”, however there are other ways to really push for a better climate, including stopping using plastics. Ban them. Support innovation for renewable resources, etc.

It feels a new form of control some councils pledged to follow. This will increase the amount of power they already have. I don’t believe that’s ok, no one should have that much power over people.

https://www.uk100.org/blog/2022/11/uk100s-response-net-zero-review

This is already in plans / happening in a couple of towns:

https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/newhams-15-minute-neighbourhood-project-supported-by-almost-20-million-funding

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-20/what-is-a-15-minute-city-and-why-is-the-idea-so-controversial

Is this happening in your town? Hopefully not. I don’t believe omni powers are democratic.

Who are restricting you? I’d love to know which council in the UK are seriously proposing these restrictions.

It’s the same strategy for implementing something that will be highly unpopular/detrimental for many.
first, create the sense of benefit, and as people do not dare to challenge or think critically, then it passes and becomes law. When people realises how bad the idea is, it’s too late and difficult to go back.

I am agains this measure because it’s not democratic. There was no consultation. My taxes are being used to fulfil someone else’s agenda. No data/studies were given.

I understand there are people enjoy living their daily lives without caring for the future or others, or having the self steam to do something. However thankfully, there are other people who care and strongly feel they need to act. So I’m asking the questions to those.

@WorkinMumsince4ever who was the leaflet from?

This kind of reply passes me off. Do you really think that this is about restricting your movement? And your only evidence is the pandemic? A novel infectious disease thst no one really understood? Really?

And I don't have to do anything about anything because others aren't. You do realise that if you took your argument to the end point, I might as well never pay for shopping because some people shoplift.

It's amazing how many people are losing their shit over a concept that is pretty much how their parents and grandparents lived when they were growing up

How much did the parents and grandparents rely on cars? how good was the public transport? why is living like our parents and grandparents necessarily a good thing?

I don't drive, before anyone starts.

It's not going to happen anyway. It is too radical a redesign & no one will want to budget to make it happen. Where it could work is in new development areas: developers are going to be just as highly resistant as usual and won't make it happen, too.

But to be honest if taking away everyone's car keys today would halt climate change I would find myself morally obliged to support the idea
And I would feel morally obliged to tell you to get your head out of your arse. And that is coming from somebody who has been "banging on about the environment" and working to change things for 50 years or so. Take away my car keys, and I can't manage a 20 second neighbourhood. The thing that maintains my ability to engage with the world is my mobility car.

Don't worry I'd let you have them back when you show you have grown up enough.
Arrogant AND patronising. You are whining like a teenager, and you are suggesting the OP grows up?

You need to show you can think beyond ME NOW like a small child
Kettle, pot, black, much?

Because having a car you drive whenever and wherever you want won't save you
Actually, for some of us, it actually will. Perhaps your cosy world with everything within 20 minutes of your front door is great for you, but I will lay bets that despite you partonising arrogant tone here you jump in the car whenever and wherever you want.

Instead of bullying the OP and being nasty, you could perhaps try listening to what she has to say and politely pointing out any parts she has misunderstood. Not everyone will be as aware and intellegent as you obviously think you are. The concept of the 20 minute neighbourhood is all very well, but we are many years away from being able to implement it, and there is much to resolve and consider before it will work; not least of which will be relocating all the rich folk who think that living as far away from neighbours as possible is a good idea. Like many "good ideas" this is a good idea meant for everyone else, and hasn't been remotely thought through in terms of infrastructure, or diversity. And like many "good ideas" it will never happen because there isn't enough investment to make it happen.

It's been a long time since I lived on Oxford, but why in the name of all that is holy would anyone choose to drive through the centre?? Using the ring road would be a natural alternative, surely??

I'd love to have a nearer GP (25 mins walk), Dentist (30 mins walk), library (30 mins walk), swimming pool (100 min walk).
Supermarkets, I'm spoilt for choice - 2 in 10 mins walk. I don't have an issue with most of this stuff being accessible to most without tracking across to the other side of town.

Where it could work is in new development areas: developers are going to be just as highly resistant as usual and won't make it happen, too

The development that's going on all along the Thames would have been an excellent time to make this work. Instead what tends to happen is you get hundreds of flats and a Tesco Express.

I live in a London borough where this really could work. We have one long high street (not called that but effectively it is) of about a mile that for half its length has shops selling exotic carpets, suit alterations, party bits 'n bobs, school uniforms and someone with a craft business selling handbags. All very nice, but not the sort of stuff there's a huge demand for every day. The place is dying retail wise and has been for years.

Check the plans and membership of this group, where the councils that pledged are listed. https://www.uk100.org/

• Adur District Council
• Bath and North East Somerset Council
• Birmingham City Council
• Blackpool Council
• Brent Council
• Bridgend County Borough Council
• Brighton & Hove City Council
• Bristol City Council
• Bury Metropolitan Borough Council
• Calderdale Metropolitan Borough Council
• Cambridge City Council
• Cambridgeshire County Council
• Canterbury City Council
• Cardiff Council
• Central Bedfordshire Council
• Cherwell District Council
• Cheshire East Council
• Cheshire West and Chester Council
• Chorley Council
• City of Edinburgh Council
• City of Lincoln Council
• City of London Corporation
• City of York Council
• Cornwall Council
• Cotswold District Council
• Derbyshire County Council
• East Ayrshire Council
• Essex County Council
• Exeter City Council
• Glasgow City Council
• Gloucester City Council
• Gloucestershire County Council
• Greater London Authority
• Greater Manchester Combined Authority
• Herefordshire Council
• Hertfordshire County Council
• High Peak Borough Council
• Lancaster City Council
• Leeds City Council
• Leicester City Council
• Leicestershire County Council
• Lewes District Council
• Liverpool City Council
• Liverpool City Region
• London Borough of Camden
• London Borough of Enfield
• London Borough of Hackney
• London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham
• London Borough of Haringey
• London Borough of Islington
• London Borough of Lambeth
• London Borough of Lewisham
• London Borough of Newham
• London Borough of Southwark
• London Borough of Tower Hamlets
• London Borough of Waltham Forest
• Mendip District Council
• Milton Keynes Council
• Mole Valley District Council
• Newcastle City Council
• Norfolk County Council
• North Kesteven District Council
• North Somerset Council
• North Tyneside Council
• Norwich City Council
• Nottingham City Council
• Oldham Metropolitan Borough Council
• Oxford City Council
• Oxfordshire County Council
• Peterborough City Council
• Plymouth City Council
• Portsmouth City Council
• Reading Borough Council
• Royal Borough of Greenwich
• Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council
• Sheffield City Council
• Shropshire Council
• Solihull Council
• Somerset County Council
• South Gloucestershire Council
• South Ribble Borough Council
• South Somerset District Council
• South Tyneside Council
• South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority
• St Albans City and District Council
• Staffordshire Moorlands District Council
• Stevenage Borough Council
• Stockport Metropolitan Borough Council
• Stroud District Council
• Suffolk County Council
• Sunderland City Council
• Surrey County Council
• Swale Borough Council
• Telford and Wrekin Council
• Three Rivers District Council
• Tunbridge Wells Borough Council
• Vale of White Horse District Council
• Warwick District Council
• Warwickshire County Council
• Watford Borough Council
• West Berkshire Council
• West Midlands Combined Authority
• West Northamptonshire Council
• West of England Combined Authority
• West Suffolk Council
• West Yorkshire Combined Authority
• Westminster City Council
• Wiltshire Council
• Worthing Borough Council

What is this list of councils supposed to mean?

Lots of capital letters and pronouncements in bold and BOLD CAPITALS in that.

I totally agree with you. Thank you. The infrastructure does not exist to implement it properly and it is very expensive indeed.

The way councils implement this form is by penalising drivers going outside their zones, if they exceed the number of times they’re allowed. Tracking cars is easy (at the click of an upgrade to the surveillance and speed cameras), imposing fines is how they see it. And all that money will go where?

Again, the fact that is hasn’t been discussed at all with people, makes it anti democratic. As the government has made it hard to protest, and surveillance can even identify people who wear masks… all I’m saying is that everything adds up. Little by little, the rights our parents and ourselves had, are being eroded. If we allow that to happen to us, our children will be next.

Just looking at that list of councils makes me think that getting anything done that needs consensus is going to make herding cats look easy. And then there's local elections and the council changes hands and the new council has different priorities...not to mention the clashing egos.

That looks more like 'Go us, we're DOING something, aren't we wonderful climate heroes?' nothing definite, just waffle.

There is a growing body of evidence of just how catastrophic our poor air quality is on our health. Heart disease, obviously lung disease, there are now links to dementia. It is affecting the health of babies in utero. Measures to reduce pollution are urgently needed and doing a bit of recycling isn’t going to make a difference to air quality.

My idea is to restrict cars to one per household. It would need a major societal shift (flexible work start times for example, plus much more public transport and cooperation between societies and households) but it would be effective. Perhaps in combination with the plans you are describing would make it even easier.

Ultimately we need to make major changes to the way we live now, or they will be forced upon us very quickly and much more severely.

My idea is to restrict cars to one per household

I used to work for a company that used a lot of contractors. A lot of them lived in areas where public transport was minimal (bus once a week and no trains) and they had school aged children so needed two cars - one for bloke to drive to the airport, one for woman to do school run and stuff. Short of moving everyone back into towns and five minutes from airports, how will you make that work? Short of establishing a very, very expensive public transport network?

That's before the implications of telling people what they can and can't buy or have with their own money and for something that facilitates their lives.

OP I think you should line your home with tin foil to be on the safe side.

My bit of london has disrupted rat run traffic in favour of walking and bikes. Obviously public transport was already excellent though. But the huge reduction in cars has made it such a lovely space to spend time, and much quicker to get around because the buses aren't trapped behind lines of solo occupant cars.

Can you link to or copy the exact passage that you have interpreted to mean that you will not be able to use your car for more than a certain amount of time per year?

I work for one of those councils on your list and can confirm that there is no talk of restricting travel in that way.

Is is that you can use it for a certain amount of times, then you have to pay? I see my children a few times a week who live more than 15 minutes away. I'll have to pay to do this??

If we take it to the end point we accept we are a moment in time on this planet as were civilisations before us. I don’t like the idea of having to pay to travel out of my city and to be honest I think once these laws come into effect people will be furious. Apathy reins when it comes to politics and people only take notice when it hits them in the pocket.

It's not that you are not allowed out more than a number of times. It's that everything you need day to day - shops, schools, medical needs, recreation etc should be provided within 30 minutes walking distance so you only rarely need to take transport out. And ensuring that when you do public transport is available

So basically you are being told where you can shop, where you can enjoy recreation, where you can meet freinds. Its a fucking dictatorship.

Perhaps ban private jets and force their users to take charter flights might do more for climate change.

I'm not sure what your list of councils is supposed to mean. It's certainly not that they have all signed up to implement 20 minute neighbourhoods just that they were signing up for action on climate change.

If someone offered me money or other incentive to move to a 15 / 20 minute city or whatever, I'd happily do so, I'd love it.

I'd go one further. If they built a city or town where cars were banned and would help with costs of moving there, i'd volunteer.

This is like banging your head against the wall.

No it is not a dictatorship telling you where to shop etc. Its improving local amenities so you DON'T have to drive to go to the shops/Dr/coffee shop etc.

I used to live 10 minutes walk from 9 supermarkets, a 50m swimming pool, bowling, laser game, shopping centre, cafes, restaurants, bakeries, pharmacies, vets and various medical centres. For 20-30 minutes walk I could access more things like an athletics stadium. Museums were a short bus ride away etc.

We really really appreciated all that. Now we live in a country with hardly any public transport or even pavements. It is so annoying having to use the car every time we want the slightest thing. The nearest food shop is a 25 minute walk up and down several hills and the temperature here is 28 degrees at 7am (Caribbean).

I would love to move to a 15 or 20 minute town.

I agree that we need to use our cars less, but I'm doubtful of how much impact it will have in our tiny country compared to countries who don't give a shit.

If I walk 20 minutes in any direction, the only thing I can find is a park with no equipment left, which is set fire to regularly; and a bargain booze. Public transport is bizarre routes that don't take you anywhere useful, and ridiculous prices. They'd have to do a LOT of work to make this effective.