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Christmas

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"Santa" is an Americanism - in the UK its "Father Christmas" isnt it?

299 replies

janmoomoo · 10/12/2008 18:49

Or am I being pedantic?

OP posts:
vesela · 11/12/2008 09:46

Father Christmas (I'm English).

I was wondering why it was Santa in Scotland, and thought it was maybe that there was no Father Christmas tradition in Scotland, so when Santa Claus became popular in the US, Scotland took on Santa without saying 'hey, that's Father Christmas' like the English did.

I guessed that the reason there was no FC tradition in Scotland was that FC's pagan roots were English, but the Wikipedia entry for Father Christmas throws more light on it:

"The symbolic personification of Christmas as a merry old figure begins in the early 17th century, in the context of resistance to Puritan criticism of observation of the Christmas feast. He is "old" because of the antiquity of the feast itself, which its defenders saw as a good old Christian custom that should be kept. Allegory was popular at the time, and so "old Christmas" was given a voice to protest his exclusion, along with the form of a rambunctious, jolly old man."

  • I'm presuming this wouldn't have been the case in more Puritan Scotland.

Interesting that FC was used as a PR figure back then! (ironic, given that people complain Santa is used as a marketing tool...)

Anybody know more about it? There's also "Bodach na Nollaig," in Scottish Gaelic, which seems closer to FC but is apparently relatively new?
(Wikipedia has it as 'Daidain na Nollaig,' but that seems to be wrong, although it appears in endless lists, presumably all lifted from Wikipedia! The Irish is Daidi na Nollag, though.)

ramonaquimby · 11/12/2008 09:48

dg - am having a good giggle at that one

I DO! She is very tired at the moment and just waiting for kettle to boil before I tackle the beds and washing.....

ramonaquimby · 11/12/2008 09:48

oops of course is Santa here, not uptight at all

DumbledoresGirl · 11/12/2008 09:50

Sorry, realise I made a man out of you there. I guess your name is Ramona, not Ramon.

BellaKissedSanta · 11/12/2008 09:50

Did you check up on his posthumous evolution while you were there, vesela?

vesela · 11/12/2008 10:00

he's not dead!! I reject the theory of posthumous evolution!!

BellaKissedSanta · 11/12/2008 10:04

Actually, you're probably right, Vesela. The Scots must have just copied Santa from the Americans when Santa first became popular there in the 19th century.

In the 18th century the Scots had already discovered carbon dioxide, patented the steam engine and Adam Smith and David Hume had published The Wealth of Nations and An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding respectively.

But I guess we were just too busy doing all that to question the etymology of the word Santa....

SnowballsintheSky · 11/12/2008 10:12

Yup, my Irish side says Santy but here in Surrey it's very much Father Christmas.

purplemonkeydishwasher · 11/12/2008 10:17

By sprogger on Wed 10-Dec-08 21:36:32 ...Turnips are little white things with green or purple tips, swedes are great big honking golden things with purple tips (known as rutabagas in the US/Canada)...

Sorry sprogger but I'm canadian and those big honking golden ones are turnips.

AND it's santa. (thank god i moved to scotland FC does my head in!!)

ChubbyDickAndSnowBalls · 11/12/2008 10:25

It's Santa here.

Father Christmas is just so...cold and formal!

Santa is much more cosy and nice.

BellaKissedSanta · 11/12/2008 10:28

Swedes are also known as Swedish Turnips.

Aaaah!

vesela · 11/12/2008 10:46

just think, if I didn't spend so much time on mumsnet, I could write a seminal work of philosophy too.

BellaKissedSanta · 11/12/2008 10:48

Well, maybe, but you'd have to find a more authoritative source than Wikipedia if you do

IwishIwasaStockingStuffer · 11/12/2008 12:07

We call the little white things with green and purple tops snowball turnips

The big yellow ones are neeps, used to make neepie lanterns at Halloween.

NowICanSpellGeansaiNollaig · 11/12/2008 12:25

RamonaQuimby? Good screen name! I'm reading that book now (well my dc1 is).

ramonaquimby · 11/12/2008 12:28

dd is reading them too or was. have ordered second set of books for xmas for her.

NowICanSpellGeansaiNollaig · 11/12/2008 12:28

I agree with you by the way 'Father Christmas' sounds so stiff and formal and takes all the joy out of 'Santa'.
Like discovering Santa Claus works for inland revenue from jan -oct.

mrsruffallo · 11/12/2008 12:45

We say Father Christmas
Santa sounds cheap

BellaKissedSanta · 11/12/2008 13:12

Well, all us Scots must be cheap then.

At least we're not snobs

FioFio · 11/12/2008 13:13

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FioFio · 11/12/2008 13:14

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mrsruffallo · 11/12/2008 13:16

you said it bella

carrotsandpeasifyouplease · 11/12/2008 13:33

Father Christmas here - welsh and get the piss taken out of me no end for saying it in Ireland

NowICanSpellGeansaiNollaig · 11/12/2008 13:58

Anyone Irish who says Santy should be selling apples on moore street (with their 'mam' - no doubt!!) It's Santa.

NowICanSpellGeansaiNollaig · 11/12/2008 13:59

I was lucky, I got all three books in one massive doorstop at a parish fete. It was 50cents!

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