If you do the four gift rule…

[YouFilthyAnimal]

How do you differentiate between the ‘want’ and the ‘need’?
Surely all children need a certain amount of toys for development and just for something to do so how do you decide which is a want and which is a need?

My 7 year old would tell you that he needs a new monster truck so he can race it against his other one, of course he doesn’t need It in a ‘would die without it’ sense but to him it’s a pretty big need - so need or want?
Is it whether the child seems it a need or the adult deems it a need?

If your child’s bike has broken, they play on it almost daily, so you’re getting a new one; want or need?
If they have used up all the felt tips and paper so you’re buying more; want or need?
All of one child’s friends are playing a certain game together on the Pc and he’s feeling left out and it’s affecting friendships, so you buy him the game - want or need?
The school moves all homework online to an app so you buy them an iPad, they can also play games on the iPad so want or need??

Also what if you have 2 DC and one needs a new bike but one only needs new socks, surely you don’t buy one child a ‘want’ plus a bike and one child a ‘want’ plus a pair of socks??

Also the ‘need’ one if you say you take it down to the very basics - shouldn’t you be providing your child with those anyway and not calling them gifts?
If my child happens to go up a shoe size in December I’m not going to buy them school shoes for Xmas, it’s my job to provide them with clothes that fit anyway, also what if then another child goes up a size in January - they get shoes just because but the other child had to count is as an Xmas present?

I just don’t know how you differentiate??

Well ideally all presents should be wanted by DC. I don't think anyone should be buying school shoes for Christmas 😂

The need is just something that is also practical. I'm getting my DC a new Star Wars lunchbox and water bottle for Christmas. Technically that's a need as his old ones are a bit tatty and I'd replace them soon anyway but he'll be thrilled with them. I wouldn't just buy him a standard plain lunch box and water bottle as that would be boring to him.

Which I wouldn't say I follow the rhymes I do tend to buy a mix of things at Christmas and at the end of the day I could slot what I've purchased into all 4 categories.

Lego pure want
Bakugan pure want

Bike in my head is needed, far too big for existing bike and needs to be able to join in with pals.

Pants - something to wear but they are needed and they help fill stocking

Bike helmet - wear and brain 🧠 is important

Book - encourage reading. And might have less bits to get everywhere than lego 😛

If it’s this much stress why are you doing the poem? Just buy your kids presents

This is well put.

Mine sometimes put e.g. red wellies. Technically they only needed wellies, but the red bit was their choice.

The list was a good system for us. They got a lot more than the list of course!

She isn’t doing the poem, she just wants to criticise it 😂

It is basically just a way to stop your kids writing a list that is total value £5,000. And to make them focus on themselves and what they really want on the list.

My child needs an electric toothbrush, he want earbuds, and a new box of cricket balls. He can have them all and new thigh pad and shin guards which I think he needs to keep him safe when playing cricket. His old ones are getting a bit old and tatty.

Yes all the presents are 'wanted' presents (or otherwise they're not really presents are they?) and I've never stuck very strictly to it as a 'rule' anyway and treat like others as a more of a guide/way of thinking to avoid overdoing it and rampant materialism but I would roughly do:

'Want' is their 'big' present, the big ticket item on their list they'll be most excited about - new games console or big toy or whatever

'Need' is something I would have had to buy for them anyway but maybe a more exciting or upgraded version to make it more present-y, examples would be a swanky new pencil case or stationery for school, practical things like lunchbox/mugs/PJs/bags/shoes but the branded or character version rather than the basic they'd get otherwise, new equipment for a hobby, perhaps you could class a new bike if they need it to get to school or a laptop to do homework on as a need but to me those would be more 'big ticket' items.

'Wear' is again probably something they'd get anyway if not Christmas, new PJs, hats/gloves/scarfs for winter (but nice ones, with their fav character or from a favourite brand), maybe a new coat or trainers once they were teens, or sometimes a nice outfit to wear at a Christmas part so not totally utilitarian.

Read is fairly self-evident, they'd usually get a few books each.

Doing it this way meant they got a nice range of stuff but all things I knew would be loved and/or at least used rather than ripped open then discarded instantly and it minimised tat purchases. They never only got 4 presents each before you think this is joyless and stingy, they always got a stocking bulked out with consumables (chocs/sweets/bath stuff/craft items) as well as the above, plus loving grandparents, aunts/uncles and so on buying them extras too and like the PP when they wrote their lists each year aside from the one 'big ticket' we or 'santa' would be getting them most of the other items were farmed out to family/friends so they usually got most of the list...

I do think most people would buy a variety of gifts at Christmas anyway esp for kids who outgrow stuff both developmentally and physically.

Other than books (which not everyone buys) I bet most people who've never heard of the list could back fit their stash off goodies into it.

The 'need' present is always something fluffy and cosy in this house, because you always need some cosiness for the Christmas holidays.
I've given them oodies, cuddle cushions, massive fluffy dressing gowns, those type of things.

Agree you're overthinking. A lot of the time there is a very blurry line line between want and need...sometimes they fit both and that's fine. Good in fact! My DC are 4, 10 and 14. Generally when they're younger, the need gift would be something vaguely educational...board games, puzzle or something along those lines. As they got older it became something hobby-related. Anything that is genuinely an essential 'need' is not a gift in my opinion.

I don't think this is true. Last year, my DS's 'need' gift was an electric guitar; his 'want' present was an echo dot. The need gift was far more exciting and definitely got more of a wow than the want gift. Very often the need gift is the main gift here because in our interpretation of it, it's things they need to be able to do their hobbies and main interests.

Do people actually get kids to write their list using the 4 points?

No, but we did always ground it into them from a very young age that the list was ideas for santa only and they should absolutely not expect to get everything on it, partially because despite knowing santa doesn't bring things that are alive because the elves can't make them in the workshop mine would always put things like 'a hamster', 'a pony' on there, and partially to avoid escalating expectations or christmas day disappointment.

They did usually get most things on their list if they hadn't gone crazy OTT, as I say we'd get them the biggest one as their 'want' present and sometimes some of the other things too e.g. if they wanted particular books or Harry Potter or Nike or whatever other brand things for instance that could be a 'read' or a 'wear' thing. And we'd give their grandparents and anyone else who asked other ideas from the list. And it wasn't absolutely totally rigid, I think one year one of them couldn't really think of a 'big present' idea they wanted, or they preferred cash/vouchers so we got them a couple of extra smaller things from their list instead. Like I say for me it was about managing the temptation to go absolutely mad and aim for a huge stack of presents like some of their friends had, but to do that I'd either have to spend money we didn't have or buy lots of cheap tat just to make presents to wrap, so sticking to a rough expectations of 1 big present, 3 ish smaller presents with at a loose practical application/use and a small stocking, plus whatever else they got from wider family helped manage this...

I do a '4 gift rule' but it's just 4 gifts, I don't complicate it with want, need, read, eat etc.

Wait what, there's rules?
Think this can go in the box marked Mumsnet only weirdness.

Just set a budget and buy what you want to give and they want to receive.

I’ve never heard of this 4 gift rule. But it appears to be a kind of helpful prompt, but if it’s not helping you, ditch it.

I’m sure you can feel a lot more confident in your own judgment, than you do at the moment.

@maxelly We all need to manage the expectations somehow. Although neither of my kids have really asked for anything wild - yet.
Live animals would get crushed and 💩 in the sleigh and Elfs get confused by electronic goods.

Yes, mine did, they quartered the page and put the four headers.

I had one child who used to stare blankly at people when asked what they wanted for Christmas, one year helpfully explained they wanted 'presents' so the list helped them a lot.

This list has been doing the rounds for at least twenty years I think, not a new thing, also not a MN thing.

Nope, but I tell them that they will get some things from their list and some surprises - they wouldn't expect to get everything on their list. Their want present would be the big thing that they want most on their list, then if there are other items that would fit into the other categories you can use them or choose something that might be even better. You can use the list to give ideas to other family members too.

As part of my major in college I had to study some philosophy, reading Plato/Socrates in the Greek and reading a bunch of the other great ones in translation.

You would make an excellent philosopher 😂

I’ve never done the 4 gift rule. But I guess I would class most of your examples as wants. Needs are basic necessities like food, water, shelter, clothing (including socks). A new duvet for example would be a need. A favorite flavored bottled drink a need also. A new cool jacket is a need even if it is a want, if the old jacket is outgrown. Books and iPads could be either based on their use. Your arguments are very thought provoking though and require more logic than I am able to give 😀

If a bike is used to get to school or work then it would be a need.

The only time I've seen it IRL was as a prompt for children writing their wishlists - you'll get more of what you ask for if it includes a dinosaur hat and a Jacqueline Wilson novel than if you just list every Pokémon game.

I've only ever heard of this utterly joyless and ridiculous "rule" on here. No need at all to abide by it or even think very much about it at all.

Just relax about it. Buy your kids stuff that you think they would enjoy getting. That is all there is to it. No need to try and shoehorn it into some arbitrary rule.

Way overthinking, it’s a suggestion, nothing more nothing less. I tend to make sure I have something in each ‘category’ but not necessarily just one in each.
The ‘need’ seems to be the most controversial, for me it just means a better version of something they need, so a school bag they really want from Smiggle rather than a cheaper version from Asda, or the fancy branded hoodie they’ve set their heart on rather than the regular clothes they need which I of course buy as needed.