Christmas without my eldest child due to her behaviour

[Alwaystoblame]

I have taken the very difficult decision to not have my eldest with us at Christmas. She lives with her dad and despite doing everything I can think of to help her her behaviour is getting worse.
I have another thread on the problems around school and posters have been very supportive there but this is is about Christmas.
I had already told her she is not coming on holiday with us and that feels awful but Christmas seems even worse.
I have 3dc and in the past 2 years she has ruined every holiday and special occasion with her behaviour and they have both asked that she's not allowed to come up anything else.
She is violent, aggressive in her manner, lies constantly, steals, police involved on a regular basis, and has everyone walking on egg shells.
This Christmas my disabled mum is coming to stay with us and she is also coming on holiday with is. Due to her age and health this might be her last Christmas and holiday with us and I'm not going to let Dd spoil anything.
But I feel so guilty and sad about it all. It's not been an easy decision. It goes against my instincts but I have to protect the younger dc's along with my mum and me.
Has anyone else been in a similar position? How did you cope with it?
Dd is being seen by camhs but rarely turns up and refuses to see the school counsellor. She's 16.
I have still bought her plenty of presents and not treated her any differently there. I tell her I love her regularly and she knows how much I try to help her.

A totally impossible situation so no judgement but Could you offer her an alternative so she isn't totally excluded / punished ? It sounds as though she'll say no but you could offer to meet her to exchange gifts in the morning ? Or invite her for a boxing day? She sounds so troubled, being included in one of the Christmas days could ease the blow. I hope things work out for you all.

A very close friend was the sibling in similar circumstance. I saw how much she dreaded going home, and how her angry, violent, very troubled sibling made things miserable. This was many years ago now, and they are both happy adults and get on very well, so there is hope.

You have made a horribly difficult decision, well done for prioritising your other children and mother this Christmas.

Your child sounds very damaged and in desperate need of help - she is screaming for help literally. I don't see it as 'bad behaviour' but a siren call for intervention and help.
I hope she is being supported in some area of her life, it sounds like a devastating place to be as a child living with a known abuser, and not knowing how to manage her anger and emotions.

I also understand you need to limit the exposure to your other children.

In your place I would go and see her on Christmas Day - and tell her you love her and she will always have a place for her at home when she is ready to come back and keep the door wide open.

Your daughter sounds deeply troubled, and I can't imagine leaving her with a man that I know is likely to make matters worse. I would be moving heaven and earth to support her from afar if she prefers to live with him, but I wouldn't and couldn't give up on her. The holidays would wait.

One day she will hopefully move to a better place emotionally and more able to regulate, god willing, it sounds absolutely desperate op. I am so sad for her, I am so sad for you.

OP it’s a very difficult situation but I think you’re absolutely doing the right thing. You’re clear and firm with her. It’s obvious you love her and she can see that. She hasn’t followed simple rules so she can’t come. I’m sorry you have to do this.

Sometimes there are no good solutions, only making the best of a bad one.

I wonder about PDA too. But there are no magic solutions to that. I'm glad the school are supportive.

@billy1966 I always love your responses. You seem so kind and wise. I bet your such a gem in real life x

I saw Dd with my mum today and we went to the cafe for hot chocolate. All her presents were given to her yesterday ready to open

I hope you and your family have a lovely Christmas with no drama.

Wrong they've ill see that they need to watch their step because their mother's love is condittional

Wait, she lives with her abusive Father?

I get it’s a very difficult situation and you have a lot of different interests to balance. I certainly know what it’s like trying to manage a challenging child. Yes boundaries are good and however hard it is to organise, I think you still need to try and do a separate event/ holiday with DD. I think that’s the way to balance her needs with everyone else’s needs. Otherwise she’s just excluded all the time - from school, from you. I don’t see how that helps her. This is not meant to be judgmental btw. My DS is also 16, school refused, didn’t do GCSEs, trashed Xmas Eve and is an all out PITA. So coming from a place of shared pain I think no Christmas and no holiday is too harsh and you need to find a way to split the time so you can meet DD1 needs too.

OP, I’m returning to this thread as it really bothered me. I can see you have competing interests which is massively difficult. I am sure you love your DD1. But she really needs you and she needs to feel loved and accepted - not just the boundaries. With some kids conventional boundaries just don’t work. I’m sorry I would do the opposite - treats and days out with my less challenging children - but holidays and Christmas including DD1 as she is part of the family and she needs to be included not excluded. This is much, much easier said than done - I regularly google how early my DS1 can leave home, who else he could live with etc etc. It is so effing tough. But the buck stops with me. Sending solidarity x

My love for her is unconditional. Unconditional love doesn't mean I have to put up with her violence and other abuse. She knows I'm always fighting her corner and want the best for her.
Yes her dad is abusive. Despite years of this the police, social services, cafcass and the court have not been interested in doing anything about it. The latest court hearing saw the judge rule that Dd could continue to stay with her dad and do what she likes because of her age. She chooses to live with him and no one can make her do different. She will intermittently report her dad to the police and then later say I forced her to lie and that nothing happened. It's impossible y

It sounds super super tough OP Xxx

to know what to do for the best because she will deny everything that she has told me to the professionals. We have a family worker but no one seems able to improve things for Dd until she makes some changes herself. If it was decided that she can't live with dad due to abuse she would continue to go back there. She runs away from here, from his, from school.

Christmas for Dd wasn't great but that was partly down to her own choices. She's old enough to decide where she lives according to the courts so she's old enough to make choices about Christmas. Now she knows how Christmas is at dad's compared to here then perhaps she will now realise how much better things are here. Christmas here was lovely and calm and next year I hope she will join us. She is coming round either today or tomorrow and her room is ready for her should she want to stay.

I keep in touch with her, I send her things to say I'm thinking of her, I'm there at the meetings for her, I take her to appointments, I encourage her with school work, listen to her problems and try to help, give her guidance as best I can. Sometimes she shows up here and I never turn her away and I always help her and do typical mum things like tea and crumpets and sympathy. She knows I'm always here for her and she knows that her behaviour won't be tolerated here so if she wants to be here she has to behave better. She needs help to reintegrate to family life and that's what I'm working on and will ask for professional help for.

It's a situation that mainly feels impossible and whatever I do is wrong but I'm doing all I can to improve things for her whilst maintaining things as they are for my other dc who have been damaged by her behaviour.

I'm doing all I can. I'm not perfect. No one is perfect and I don't expect perfection from anyone either. It's easy to judge when you haven't had the same experiences as me.

I get all that OP. I really do. I guess my own experience has been around learning to lean in more to DS1 when what I really want to do (in the moment) is to put him up for adoption as I find it completely overwhelming at times. I’ve had to learn to be curious about what’s happening for him when he’s at his most challenging. And I have found it’s started to work for us and he’s slowly, slowly getting back on track. I have to believe the best in him when he’s at his worst. It continues to be one step forward three steps back. I was recommended a book called “when the adults change” - sorry can’t remember the author - about teaching challenging kids in school and it helped. But I hear you, no one knows your sitch better than you do. As mums we have to do what we think is best. Your original post asked for others’ experience and this is mine xx

Someone else who’s been helpful is the child psychologist Dr Tanya Byron - writes in the Times on Monday. I scraped together money for a couple of private appointments and she was very good.

And honestly. Loads of people we know think they could do a better job of parenting my son than I do. Without actually having to do it. So I didn’t mean to make you feel worse.

I think you are doing the best you can OP. Boundaries always set in place make people feel safe and loved and this is the only way.

It’s a reasonable and sensible choice, probably for her too. Obviously still very tough and can understand why you feel conflicted though.

You know I've skimmed this post and wanted to say I'm so so proud of how you are handling it and are there for her still. It's absolutely amazing of you. My mother deemed ms difficult and stuff and I was never like your daughter as you describe. She used to NC with me. Kick me out etc. When all I wanted was her to show love (she has mental health issues). I tell you now, what ever it is she's going through the fact that you have made sure you are there and are available for her is just incredible. Even with the abuse you suffered. You are still her mum and she knows it. It's just incredible of you. Honestly want to give you a hug you are doing the right thing ❤️❤️❤️ xxx

@Flowerpower2022 you haven't made me feel worse

Thank you for the kind words. She's going to stay here for however long from today. Something has happened between her and her dad and the police need to be involved. It's not the first time but I hope it's the last. He won't change but Dd can and I can hopefully keep her safe here while she figures out her next steps. She won't be told anything, she has to figure things out for herself and that's hard when all I want to do is keep her safe here. If the dc had very little contact with their dad it would be a good thing. Youngest Dd sees him about once a month and won't stay the night. It's on her terms only and he has finally accepted that. I wish the courts, cafcass, social services and police had listened to what I was saying all these years. We wouldn't be where we are now if they had and this is what I always feared would happen but they all believed him but me.

Very similar situation here @Alwaystoblame with DS and dad just over Christmas 😫. Cannot tell my DS anything either. Well done for being DD1 safe person . Sending love and best wishes xxx

I just want to say that if there were more mothers and fathers in the world like you, @Alwaystoblame , society would be far better. I've read all your posts and your daughter is VERY lucky to have you in her corner - from what I've read here, you're doing a magnificent job in raising all your kids. Merry Christmas!

Thank you for the kind words. It's incredibly hard being a mum to a child with significant needs like Dd has.
She came home today and is safe, warm, fed, bathed and in clean clothes. That in itself is progress. Her siblings and I are happy to see her and have her home. The police have made an appointment to see her about what happened at her dad's house but I doubt they will do anything. As always with Dd I just take each hour as it comes.