Out of interest if you are secular, do you celebrate Xmas rather than Christmas?

[Marmiteandjamislush]

Just for background, our family is modern traditional Christian, that is to say we observe all of the rules as they relate to the individual, so food, dress, personal actions, hygiene etc. but we do not impose our views on others or encourage others to join the faith. God gave people choice and we cannot influence that, we can only show our best selves. We do not believe in creationism, we believe God gave us the capacity to understand and practice science so science and God cannot be mutually exclusive, though we do believe that the process began with God. We are most definitely Not homophobic (really annoys me that a lot of Christians are automatically tarred with this brush) God made all people in his image and that includes people of all orientations. We accept that the Bible was of it's time and the language used expresses views that do not always hold true in our time, because God has revealed information to us that changes our understanding. We use it as a guiding hand rather than a rigid stick.

Anyway, to my point. I've seen quite a few threads on the site generally where people will say they celebrate Christmas, but then follow it up with something along the lines of 'but we don't do any religious nonsense.' I have no problem with people wanting to do the commercial/family aspects, but I do have an issue with people talking about Christmas, but having nothing to do with or even basic respect for Christ or Christians. Especially when a secular term exists. So as I said, out of interest do any of you do Xmas rather than Christmas?

ok, so the issue is how people talk about religion and you find that disrespectful? That's it Petula, why disrespect the religion but keep the reference to religion, that was what I didn't understand.

Thanks for the hug fickle

I have no problem with people wanting to do the commercial/family aspects, but I do have an issue with people talking about Christmas, but having nothing to do with or even basic respect for Christ or Christians

You do have to wonder what answers the OP was expecting. She lives in the UK. A lot of people are cultural rather than practicing christians. Christmas is part of our culture.

Me, I am completely disillusioned by religion and what 'religious' people stand for. However, I'm not going to stop using the word Christmas, that's ridiculous

I didn't ask people to stop using it, just whether they did or not. I don't see what's wrong with respect for the faith it originate from either, so not just dismissing it as a nice story for kids, but acknowledging that for some people it means far more.

people who aren't christian aren't going to be reverent about the word christmas, because it's not something to be reverent about for them. we don't live in a time or place where people are punished for blasphemy and i think that's a good thing

there are more or less respectful ways of talking about christianity if you are non-christian, but personally, as a person of faith (for want of a better phrase), i am not going to be upset by someone saying the phrase "religious nonsense". i don't believe in homeopathy and have probably at some stage referred to it as "homeopathic nonsense"

Marmite, you did quite explicitly say that you had an issue with non-Christians using the term Christmas, right there in the original post:

but I do have an issue with people talking about Christmas, but having nothing to do with or even basic respect for Christ or Christians. Especially when a secular term exists.

I take your point Petula I think some of it is because I am a SAHM, well actually I work remotely from home and although I went to Uni, I'm not used to people talking about religion outside of our church, because as I said above it's a private thing. So the way people speak so openly and to my mind disrespectfully, sometimes on here has shocked and saddened me a bit. So I thought I'd ask.

Back to a point I made earlier: do you respect the Norse gods?

I wasn't clear Archie sorry, I was just meaning the lack of basic respect. I may not worship Norse figures but I would not be derogatory about them or those who do. That's my point.

But Christmas is a celebration attached to Christ, so that's what it's called (aside from it being an appropriation of earlier celebrations). I don't have to believe in Christ, or believe there is/was anything divine about him, for that to still be true. At the celebration named after Christ, I have mince pies and give presents. I'm allowed to say that surely, whatever I believe.

Others are right, you shouldn't use Easter if people are only allowed to use words that relate to gods they actually believe in. I'm not sure you should be allowed talk about January, Thursday or Mars either.

However, in answer to the question, I do write Xmas, because it's easier and I like it (not to avoid the word Christ, as X is an abbreviation for Christ).

I don't use the word Easter

I think you are confusing the two things, Marmite: disregard for the religion and disregard for the religious. It's possible to believe a religion is utter nonsense, and say so, without that being an attack on the people who do believe it.

Do you think the Norse gods are real gods, or a folktale? That's separate from you having respect for people who do worship Norse gods.

Good, what about the rest? There are quite a lot of words you shouldn't use if you are asking non-Christians not to use Christ.

You didn't ask whether people did or not - you asked why

Take Christ away and it's not Christmas. I just don't see why you would use that word if it's meaningless to you

And the answer is because is has cultural meaning and we all know what each other means

And just to be clear: I'm not asking whether you worship Norse gods - I'm asking whether you think they are real.

i can understand that marmite, if that's what you're used to and what you're comfortable with

i personally like a bit of robust debate and challenging of views (my own and others), which help me explore my feelings and opinions and may cement or change them, but not everyone wants or needs that.

the other thing is that people are cautious of respect for religion meaning that doctrine and practice go unchallenged, because this attitude has allowed some horrific abuses to be effectively enabled and/or condoned. i'm absolutely not saying that that is the case within your own community. but it does make people suspicious about religious groups that are resistant to questioning by others. i know that this is moving away from your specific questions about christmas in the OP, but it does explain why people are reluctant to be unquestioningly respectful about religion

Space have you read the whole thread?!

Archerie, they may be gods to some, but not me. They are real in so far as they exist in knowledge same as my God.

Genuinely Katie, I don't know what you mean by this we all know what each other means could you explain?

That's a bit of a weasel answer, Marmite. What's the difference between you considering them not-gods and other people considering the story of your god as just a nice story, nothing more?

I didn't say it's just a story did I?

I said I think they exist because I know about them, but I do not treat them as gods

They are gods to some, I acknowledged their importance to certain people. That's all I want others to in relation to Christmas.

No sorry, I confess I skimmed some.

In answer to something you said later, as an atheist/agnostic I base my beliefs on evidence/empiricism and that is important to me. It's also objectively important - we lives our lives by reality. For example planes fly because of the science involved, not because of prayers or beliefs.

Therefore my understanding of religious beliefs is that they are nonsense and fairy tales - quite literally. They make no (empirical, verifiable) sense, and they are old stories about supernatural events. If this wasn't true, there would be no need for faith, would there? Religious people need faith because of the lack of evidence. being offended when non-believers point out the lack of evidence is a bit rich.

However I do respect people's feelings, so I would not go up to a religious person and start telling them that I don't respect their beliefs apropos of nothing. I would argue with them if they tried to argue with me, otherwise I'd respect how they feel. For example if I had a Muslim or Jewish person coming to a party I'd try hard to make sure there was no food that might upset them. I think their beliefs make no sense, but it's how they feel and that can't be helped, so I would respect that.