Out of interest if you are secular, do you celebrate Xmas rather than Christmas?

[Marmiteandjamislush]

Just for background, our family is modern traditional Christian, that is to say we observe all of the rules as they relate to the individual, so food, dress, personal actions, hygiene etc. but we do not impose our views on others or encourage others to join the faith. God gave people choice and we cannot influence that, we can only show our best selves. We do not believe in creationism, we believe God gave us the capacity to understand and practice science so science and God cannot be mutually exclusive, though we do believe that the process began with God. We are most definitely Not homophobic (really annoys me that a lot of Christians are automatically tarred with this brush) God made all people in his image and that includes people of all orientations. We accept that the Bible was of it's time and the language used expresses views that do not always hold true in our time, because God has revealed information to us that changes our understanding. We use it as a guiding hand rather than a rigid stick.

Anyway, to my point. I've seen quite a few threads on the site generally where people will say they celebrate Christmas, but then follow it up with something along the lines of 'but we don't do any religious nonsense.' I have no problem with people wanting to do the commercial/family aspects, but I do have an issue with people talking about Christmas, but having nothing to do with or even basic respect for Christ or Christians. Especially when a secular term exists. So as I said, out of interest do any of you do Xmas rather than Christmas?

Mumsnet isn't all like this, I promise. I'm sure it's mostly fascination rather than completely attacking. Try not to take it personally...

you said you take it on board but you didn't. you consistently replied that you needed to go and do research about this and reject that it can be done quickly.

I do find it odd that you will not mention your denomination. perhaps you are ashamed of it? I am Church of Scotland, if you're interested, which you probably aren't.

Maybe you should stop preaching about being such a good Christian and start living it a bit more?

You are full of pride Kate, otherwise you would not keep making your issue the most important. You think your way is best and I am ignorant of my faith. To me you have been rude, though I did not insult you when I said this and I made nothing up, you have made comments about challenging teachers, my food choices and so on. We are different. I accept that it seems you cannot.

Agree beast. I think people are so taken aback with religious ideas that are new to them, without realizing how odd most religious ideas are (apologies, but they are!).

My mum was on about how weird Muslims are for making sure the Koran is the highest book in the house until I pointed out she merrily eats the flesh and blood of Christ on a weekly basis.

Wow, that comment to Redhead was totally uncalled for, OP. Incredibly rude.

For someone who posted at length about her Christian life, that post along with all the others where you have accused people of various "sins" do not set a good example of living a Christian life.

Beast - I think perhaps this thread has taken off a bit not just because the OP puts lots of stuff about her not-very-mainstream practice of Christianity in the OP, but also because she seemed to want to impose her interpretation of Christmas on other people, i.e. tell atheists that they should not be celebrating Christmas or should call it something else.

People's hackles often rise when they are told they shouldn't be doing something, as the OP's response to some other posts on this thread also illustrates...

The one where I said she is stirring? Well what is she doing then?

on the use of "full of pride" I get the sense that this has a special meaning to OP and is perhaps used in her faith community to refer to something specific, perhaps related to submission to teaching and to god?

So clearly meant as a criticism of Kate, but not perhaps invented as a term specifically about her?

Where did I accuse anyone of sins? I said people can celebrate secularly if they wish, but if they are so vehement about Christianity why bring Christ into it?

I take your point, Beast, but the OP posted here because she feels her particular corner of Christianity has "ownership" of Christmas, and the rest of us shouldn't even use that word, so it's not really surprising that many people are a bit prickly about this.

OP - if it's helpful, you might like to remember that until very recently, if you were filling in a form with an official, and they asked your religion, and you said "no religion", that was written down as "Church of England"! I'm not even kidding (though they don't do that any more, thankfully). With that as a sort of cultural base level for what has considered broadly Christian, that might help you understand the bafflement from a lot of people when you describe what you count as Christian.

OP - are you in the UK, or elsewhere, by any chance?

That's right Beast

I agree about the thread taking off

I will never really understand faith, especially dietary laws and such.

If a teacher cannot take a challenge, then they are not much of a teacher. However, i cannot see where KatieKaye said that. You did bring up the food differences and that you can't pray when you are 'dirty', although i have no idea exactly what you mean by that. Since in the Bible we are told to 'pray all the time' Ephesians 6:18, how this work with your beliefs? I am not ridiculing you - i am interested.

Marmite, cariad, no good can come of continuing to engage in this thread. You have accepted the answer now I suggest you let it peter out naturally.

This thread moves so fast that cross-posting is inevitable

So, OP, as Kate is not part of your community I think you have to realilse that she would see that term "cold" and without the associations that it has for you, of admonishment by a trusted spiritual advisor and/or community, and it would therefore be more offensive than you meant it to be.

Op, can you clarify what it is you actually want to know? Clearly, you muddied your enquiry with vague references to your faith and a now cleared up misapprehension about the word Xmas.

Are you merely wondering why an atheist would use the word Christmas?

Most likely because that's the beauty of shared language. Christmas as a term signposts a certain time of year and the celebration which accompanies it. The individual permutations, ideologies and preferences are just that. The term confers meaning outside of its etymology, much like all language which has evolved or mutated.

Plus, an atheist liking a celebration and borrowing from it is not dissimilar to Christianity hijacking the Winter festival in the first place. December 25th is meaningless to Christianity. It was merely co-opted.

I celebrate Yule fwiw. I use the term Christmas however as it indicates what I mean nicely.

And so we go full circle… For most people these days, Christmas is just the commonly accepted word for that midwinter festival. It is a compound word, and not full of religious implications for most people. Christmas shopping, office christmas party, christmas cake, christmas crackers - nothing religious about any of those.

I am in UK Archery, but I didn't know that about the forms and things because I obviously put Christian. So what you are saying is people identify as of Christian origin without practice?

I asked about your denomination because i am interested. i have never heard of one that has the laws and beliefs that you follow and i was interested in doing some 5 minute research to find out a bit more about it. However, i won't bother, since it appears to be quite narrow-minded. Lots of religions are, and i know lots of narrow-minded people who count themselves as good Christians. You were preaching but if you don't want to believe that either, then mind.

Oh and very magnanimous of you - I said people can celebrate secularly if they wish I'm sure that puts a lot of people's minds at rest.

No, Archery is saying that if you said you had no religion, someone else would say, "Oh, right, Church of England, then".

As in, there is no such thing as an atheist, all you are allowed to be is different flavours of religious.

I have no issue, other than that I object to your lies about me.
I have not said anything about challenging your teacher. That is a lie.

So what you are saying is people identify as of Christian origin without practice?

Have you not heard the term 'cultural christian'? I think this applies to a large proportion of people in the UK who describe themselves as Christian on forms etc. Similar to secular Jews - they follow lots of Jewish cultural traditions without actually believing in God, going to synagogue (except for weddings and bar mitzvahs) etc.

You must know what I mean by dirty. As in physically, so not in the bathroom, as in the room at all, after relations with the husband, when you are unwashed/ unshaven, or have just eaten and not washed hands, menstruating etc. If you mistook that to mean spiritually 'dirty'. I am sorry, I would never say that!

in the Bible we are told to 'pray all the time' Ephesians 6:18, how this work with your beliefs I take this to mean taking guidance which can be the act of 'praying' --which is a very definite act for us, an subconscious thought, God drives the soul, books and scripture and others.

Examples of preaching please