Santa. Is he real? Should he be?

[nickelbabe]

every year, I have this debate with myself about the idea of santa.
now that dd will be 2, she's going to start understanding what christmas is about.

I know growing up, we had Santa bringing us presents.
i don't think I want to "do" santa with dd.
but the problem here is that every bogger else soes santa, so eventually, she'll start to ask me about it, or be questioned at school!
and then, we go to playgroups where they make comments about santa without even checking if parents do santa or not. Given that these are church playgroups I think it's well out of order. :(
like we as parents can't make this decision for our own child

it's against my christian beliefs - christmas only has gifts in because we're echoing what gifts were brought to jesus, and it kind of enforces both consumerism and the fact that if you're good, you get material possessions as a reward.
but if we don't, we're spoiling it cor other children amd potentially are telling them their parents are lying to them.
,

longdistance. there's another thing. but hoping by the time dd is old enough to know that she'll already know he's not real.

I just hate the way you can't have a religious christmas without having santa!

Well I hate to say it but.........as an atheist it's pretty hard to do Christmas for children without the whole baby Jesus thing being rammed down their throats either. What with Christmas carols and nativities that all schools seem to do. But I appreciate this is a Christian country on the whole (or it used to be) and they are our traditions. Father Christmas is another tradition.

So with DD I tell her the story of both and play along regardless of what I believe, but keep my opinions to myself. She'll make her own mind up soon enough.

Also TBH I think the father xmas myth is very similar to the christian one. If you're good = father xmas brings you presents.
If your good = you go to heaven.
Both ways of manipulating people into being well behaved to order to earn some reward

all have raised good ppints.

thank you for bringing up well thought reasoning.

I do have problems with people toiting or evangelizing their beliefs - god, atheism, father christmas, bottle/breastfeeding, pink for girls etc, and I think it makes me feel a bit more grr than ot should.

headless but heaven is attainable for poor people too ,

Heaven is only attainable if its real.

But yes I guess you could say everyone rich or poor will be disappointed when if it turns out not to be, so at least there's equality.

Agree Headless

I am atheist and I treat the nativity as a story, but do not mention too much infront of the dc, DH is also a non believer. However I think in amongst the mad consumerism Its very sweet to have this King born in a humble stable and I think the message there is special and sweet, and when DD was asking what humility meant I was describing a king born in a stable. I would not sit 6 year old DD down and say, look at this it never happened its a sham, people have to find a meaning in something as really none of us know why we are here, floating on a rock in the middle of an endless galaxy may be too much for her ...

I shy away from trying to be too heavy on my DC over anything really, it can be depressing otherwise, they are free agents, we are just here to keep them safe until adults.

yes I see that.

I think the thing that bugs me most is that there's an assumption that you do santa, regardless of background or status.
i don't find it so bad coming from secular society, but I don't expect it to be blazed about within a church environment, almost in the same breath as the Jesus story.

I think children believe in the whole magic for such a short time, it would be sad to deny them that innocence. I don't think when they truly believe that it is about materialism.

But for the OP - your child will be amongst a classfull of children who will believe and it's such a magical time to be a part of it..........it is a community in the way that the church is another community. You could tell your child about the actual Saint Nicholas.....maybe say he just brings a stocking, or we do stockings in his memory.

My DD is terrified of a man coming in the house on Christmas Eve, and so I'm picking up the presents from him this year.............it really is whatever works for YOU and YOUR family.

If you believe in God though, won't your points be harder to reconcile with God not giving to all the starving children or answering their prayers than a bit of fantasy dreamed up in the western world?If I was religious I would be more worried about explaining that than Fc

That was my thought exactly. You're bothered about introducing your daughter to the idea of Santa and explaining to her why he doesn't give everybody lots of presents, yet the god you believe in apparently allows some children to live unbearably awful lives and that isn't a problem.

well, god isn't directly responsible for war and famine - free will and all that.
whereas santa is billed as physically doing something for people who deserve it.
that makes it worse - that god isn't arbitrarily deciding which children deserve gifts,, but santa does.

oh, cripes, santa thinks he's god, doesn't he!