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Original poster

Santa. Is he real? Should he be?

35 replies

nickelbabe · 05/12/2013 19:02

every year, I have this debate with myself about the idea of santa.
now that dd will be 2, she's going to start understanding what christmas is about.

I know growing up, we had Santa bringing us presents.
i don't think I want to "do" santa with dd.
but the problem here is that every bogger else soes santa, so eventually, she'll start to ask me about it, or be questioned at school!
and then, we go to playgroups where they make comments about santa without even checking if parents do santa or not. Given that these are church playgroups I think it's well out of order. :(
like we as parents can't make this decision for our own child

it's against my christian beliefs - christmas only has gifts in because we're echoing what gifts were brought to jesus, and it kind of enforces both consumerism and the fact that if you're good, you get material possessions as a reward.
but if we don't, we're spoiling it cor other children amd potentially are telling them their parents are lying to them.
,

OP posts:
CMOTDibbler · 05/12/2013 19:08

You don't have to go full out with it when they are little though - just don't say its not true iyswim.

Luggage16 · 05/12/2013 19:19

We say that Santa is a story, and like all stories people choose whether they think there is truth in it or not. My daughter wants to believe Santa is real and that's fine by me, but she hopefully wont ever think we have lied to her about it. We play Santa every year, leave of carrots and a treat and Santa brings 1 small gift. The thing that bugs me most with santa is the number of people this time of year who ask my children if they are 'good' - surely all children are 'good' - children aren't 'bad' are they! We try very much to avoid any suggestion that gifts come because they are good and make a point of saying to mine that christmas gifts will happen regardless of behaviour.

Chivetalking · 05/12/2013 19:20

If you don't want to do it, don't but don't expect to control what outside groups do.

Just tell your dd it's something other people like to do and not to spoil it for those who do.

Original poster
nickelbabe · 05/12/2013 19:24

luggage, i've been asked if dd is "good" since she was born! Grin

chive, I'm only worried that it's so ingrained that I feel like i've not been given a choice as to whether to do it.

OP posts:
Original poster
nickelbabe · 05/12/2013 19:25

and hpw do you reconcile why some people get nothjng at all?
if there's going to be a santa, surely he'd be giving something to the starving children across the world?

OP posts:
Luggage16 · 05/12/2013 19:26

oh yes the 'is she a good baby' thing - that drives me mental too!

99redbafoons · 05/12/2013 19:27

You don't have to buy into the massive consumerism side of Christmas, you can tell her the story of Jesus and why we share presents at Christmas, you're in control of what she understands and at 2 you are her main influence.

Your daughter has a whole lifetime to learn about consumerism and corporate greed, but she's only this little for such a short period - I can't help thinking you may regret in years to come not buying into the "magic of Christmas" with her just a small amount.

IslaValargeone · 05/12/2013 19:30
Hmm
SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking · 05/12/2013 19:43

He's not real and yes he should be. Only because it would save me a shit load of money if he was Grin

Each to their own I say. You want to do Santa then do it, if you don't then don't. Its not a legal requirement

nickeldonkeyonadustyroad · 05/12/2013 19:49

why the Hmm isla? dConfused

sp - sometimes it seems like a legal requirement. when I was little church people didn' mention santa, but concentrated on jesus

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch · 05/12/2013 19:51

Have you missed Hully's threads?

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 05/12/2013 19:53

it's against my christian beliefs - christmas only has gifts in because we're echoing what gifts were brought to jesus

I can understand that it's not the core of your christian beliefs but I can't see why it's against them Confused - unless you're JW maybe?

I'm pretty sure gifts have been given at this time of year since before christianity. Are you not doing a tree either? Massive great yummy dinner? What about easter eggs, do you those? If you're really bothered then yeah, just get your DD some gold, frankinscence and myrrh, I'm sure she'll be everso grateful.

littlemslazybones · 05/12/2013 19:55

"You need to believe in things that aren't real. How else can they become?"

nickeldonkeyonadustyroad · 05/12/2013 20:09

what hully's threads? I always miss everything! :(

pubes - I think that's oversimplifying things. we give gifts to each other to echo the gifts that jesus was given when he was born, and to celebrate that jesus is god's gift to the world (I saw that in a church . ironically the same one that extolled the santa thing Hmm)
and I don't mind traditions, I just don't know if I want to encourage the ones that aren't real, iyswim.
it feels like lying.

Maryz · 05/12/2013 20:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pinkpartysprinkles · 05/12/2013 20:17

I tend to go with the Santa as St Nicholas, that's the story we were brought up on as children (Christian family)

It has historical basis and explains the traditions behind stockings - why gold coins are traditionally put in, chocolate now though of course! It worked in our family that Santa (St Nick) did/does the stockings and that we give each other gifts to remember the giving of gifts to Jesus from the three kings and the shepherds and Mary and Joseph - remember they gave love which is the purest gift of all.

This was enough for us as children that we could appreciate "the magic" without losing any of our Christian beliefs and could agree that the idea of Santa is as real as St Nicholas was to the poor girls in the long ago story.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 05/12/2013 20:21

I do have a couple of problems with the whole santa thing though ...

  1. the idea of santa leaving presents for 'good' children, especially with so many people really struggling financially at the moment. I hope no child ends up feeling like they must be 'bad' because their parents haven't been able to afford much for them. It kind of encourages the notion that people with lots of stuff (and therefore money) are wealthy because they deserve to be.

  2. I don't know about anybody else but I stopped believing in father christmas years before I told my parents I didn't believe in him, because I thought if they knew I had cottoned on, I wouldn't get a stocking. This seemed to be normal among my friends, especially those of us with older siblings (who were also pretending), so I think the lesson I learnt was that sometimes you can humour people to get what you want. All very Machiavellian or something Hmm

My two are 21 and 18 now but still get stockings. I always told them it was just a nice story (a bit like the baby jesus Wink) I can no longer convince them that father christmas only shops in the £ shop and drinks Stella though.

nickeldonkeyonadustyroad · 05/12/2013 20:22

what maryz? am i questioning other people's beliefs? maybe a few 5yos.... Wink

nickeldonkeyonadustyroad · 05/12/2013 20:23

I quiteelike that explanation pink

nickeldonkeyonadustyroad · 05/12/2013 20:27

pubes that's another problem - you can only get stuff if you're good, we're poor so obviously evil

a d yy to your second point, one works out the truth and has to cover up a lie with a lie "let's keep this secret to ourselves and not tell anyone" there's a grooming parallel

Longdistance · 05/12/2013 20:37

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

I posted this yesterday about Santa, Saint Nic, FC.

It's a funny one, as I've been bought up believing Saint Nicholas (Mikulás), comes on the 5th December. My dp's are Hungarian. We got chocs and small gifts left by 'him'. And 24th, Xmas eve was saved for receiving presents, when Jesus would have been given gifts.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 05/12/2013 20:39

^pubes - I think that's oversimplifying things. we give gifts to each other to echo the gifts that jesus was given when he was born, and to celebrate that jesus is god's gift to the world (I saw that in a church . ironically the same one that extolled the santa thing hmm)
and I don't mind traditions, I just don't know if I want to encourage the ones that aren't real, iyswim.^

Either all traditions are 'real' or none of them are, they're just traditions, invented by humans. Some are older than others, some are more emotionally enriching/healthier than others but I find the idea that some traditions are 'real' and some are not quite strange. (I don't expect you to agree with this if you're christian btw). I don't give gifts to echo anything about jesus or god. I give gifts because it's the solstice and hooray the days are getting longer again so we'll probably survive the winter and because it brightens up the darkest part of the year and just because it's a really enjoyable thing to do.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 05/12/2013 20:40

plenty My dd has a nice pile of gifts because I got them mostly free off freecyle and from shopping at car boots and charity shops.

Unless your dc are opening gifts with others children who are going to have much higher end toys, like real ponies and real toy cars....I don't think that's a problem. Usually a child is in line with their social peers as well.
You also don't have to mention the good thing. Lots on MN have said they dont say that to their dc.

As for being Machevelian re stocking tricks, I think the illiusions of FC if anything serve to make us realise that not everything is as it seems, and hopefully leads to more questioning people and citizens rather than being spoon fed stuff by politicans or people in charge.

OP I do not think young children understand that concept re starving children not getting presents, although older children are questioning it now shoe box appeals in school are getting more common place. As christmas is usually a time of giving to charities, doing shoe boxes buying charity gift presents it sort of balances out though...

If you believe in God though, won't your points be harder to reconcile with God not giving to all the starving children or answering their prayers than a bit of fantasy dreamed up in the western world?If I was religious I would be more worried about explaining that than Fc [confused

Its a bit of fun that most people in the UK seem to join in with. So I think you need to respect that.

However, I assume you will give your DC presents, even small ones more in line with your faith perhaps....and you can just not mention Santa....dont make a big deal of it, and when she starts to ask questions....just say its something that some people do, like some people dont belive in god either, some people do not think god exists....however we all respect what each other belive...

EirikurNoromaour · 05/12/2013 20:41

Hmmm I struggle with this too for the opposite reason. I'm an atheist and I want DS to know that religion is something that some people believe in. His dad is religious so when he asks me about god I always answer that 'your dad believes this...' He doesn't believe in fairies or magic (apart from the tooth fairy and Father Christmas) and I'm torn between loving the magic and wanting to be rational. His father doesn't have any connection to the FC myth so he won't tell him it's not true but he won't actively encourage it. I worry about when he's old enough to question why his cousins don't get visited by FC, when that happens I might have to debunk the myth.

notso · 05/12/2013 20:41

You don't have to take it so seriously or do the bits you don't like.
I've never told my DC that only good children get presents. They have heard it in songs and films but that is all they haven't questioned it.
The same when an older sibling finds out you don't make it a big thing it's just like knowing what they are getting for their birthday and not telling them. They'll find out for themselves.
Father Christmas should be done with a nod and a wink. It's just a story, I don't know why people get so suspicious of it all.