Would like to check what you would do in this situation

[Unprune]

I think I know what we are going to do, but I'd like some other opinions.

Imagine you have a BIL/SIL whom you're not close to and the bond is not one of blood.

Year 1: everyone gets on well, presents exchanged at Christmas.

Year 2: you haven't fallen out, but SIL has made it clear she dislikes everyone in the family and feels sorry for her DH not having a family he can count on. Everyone rather confused but since BIL himself doesn't say anything, assume it is 'just her'.
People buy presents for them as normal at Christmas; they give Oxfam gifts (without warning).

Year 3: some of the family respect their wish not to have 'things' at Christmas and buy for their children. Others buy them presents, as normal. They buy for the children only.

Year 4: gifts are bought for their children. They do not buy any for the children, or anyone else.

Year 5: ?????

Still buy gifts for their children. Not their fault if their parents are arses.

I agree, still buy gifts for their children. They are weirdos.

Should mention, the children are very young. They now won't remember us

The parents are, for sure, rather odd and verrrrrry chippy. It's a horrible situation.

I'd still buy for their children.

Have you explored the reasons for your SIL and her DH's behaviour?

No. Really have no clear idea of why they dislike us so much, but it's one of those situations where it is easier to let them get on with it, than to put yourselves in the position of seeing them and dealing with the astonishing behaviour that would happen half the time.

buy small gifts for the children, tasteless ones that will appeal to children, waterbombs, musical instruments, glitter craft kits.

what is chippy?

OK so far everyone has said exactly what I would do, so that's made me feel better.

Chippy - with a chip on your shoulder and not afraid to take things the wrong way

agree with Cat64. Is there any chance this is a financial rather than emotional reason?

I think though that I would be tempted to buy presents for any children involved anyway, tbh

Unprune, Sadly I could have written your post . There has been the odd thread here on passive/aggresive sils which I have found useful 'Did you mean to sound to rude' but mostly I smile, talk about the weather and then chase after a child.

After a mix up over gifts for a new baby - we gave them a brand new gro bag and spare/little worn baby clothes but did n't know she only wanted 2nd hand stuff but that had to be 'vintage - 1960s cloth kits' or known organic brands or a few obscure,expensive labels

So she has gone from year 1, gushing over the bundle of organic chocolate bars to year 5 sat with a face like a welders bench come what may. BIL shifts around looking embarrassed.

My solution, their girls are now 4 & 2, is not to buy and send for birthdays but when as we rarely see them put something directly in their hands. This summer it was glittery boxs and hair slides.

Christmas - last year was an album with photos from the previous summer get together as a reminder of their place in extended family which BIL loved. Year before an Ordanance Survey Map centred on their home with their names on the cover which ticked all the boxes.

Am sooo stuck for this year, I think it needs to be
personnal so it does n't get thrown straight on the charity shop pile
Not too expensive, we're on a budget and we don't want to compete with their wealthy trustafarian friends and lifestyle
Respectful of Sil's confusing and contradictory organic/fairtrade principals.
Conveys that we are family and there for them but not in a needy obligation way.

So any suggestions?

I am speculating, but maybe if there is financial reason, BIL was supposed to ask for help from the family, and was too proud/embarrassed to do so, has lied to SIL that the family refused, and now she is against you all.

Surely it must make for a very unpleasant atmosphere if you have to meet at gatherings. It's a shame that it's got this far without someone trying to get to the bottom of it and sort it out once and for all. At the very least SIL should make clear her reasons for disliking you all.

I would still just give the children presents.

Blackbag, you're a better person than I trying to please someone who can never be pleased. My feeling is if SIL has no manners, she deserves no gift. Don't put yourself through the agony of trying to find the perfect gift, just give something that will please BIL the most.

What about something locally produced/crafty?

There is DEFINITELY not a financial reason. They are well-off. BIL communicates very little about anything, but SIL has married up and has taken every opportunity to talk about money in the past, usually in comparison with what other people in the family have (and she gets it so wrong in both directions, poor thing, she is a bit clueless about cost vs worth/spending priorities etc and has misjudged every one of us in quite a vulgar way).

I completely recognise the strange eco-principles that don't seem to have a fixed centre, and the brand-specifying. Vintage Cloth Kits is a tall order!

And absolutely PMSL at 'sat with a face like a welder's bench' I LOVE that phrase and am stealing it.

Anyway I could go on about her forever, it's obvious that I cannot stand her, and that she/they cannot stand us. What a shame (especially as nothing has actually happened, which inevitably makes it about personalities and not bad behaviour), but there it is.

Girlywhirly, to be fair, MIL did try to get to the bottom of it but without going into specific and identifying details, it seemed to be based on - once again - material goods and a misunderstanding of financial arrangements.
Though why they don't talk to me and DH is a mystery and I just assume they don't like us for some reason. I know there was one incident where we refused to pander to SIL's rantings and just ignored her at a party. Meh. It's no loss, it's just tricky.

Just a thought - does she know your are of the opinion that she has "married up"?

No. I say things on here that I wouldn't even allude to in public!

Sorry OP, I have tried to read your posts carefully. Have you actually tried to Phone them about a Gift exchange strategy this year?
Do they screen their calls? I'd try to phone say 4 times leaving messages each time.

I'd ask what they want to do about exchanging gifts; proposing what I wanted to do (maybe only kids get gifts from each other). If they won't reply or say anything specific then I would either send nothing to any of them or go with my proposed plan.

I don't think my posts have been that hard to read

No I haven't phoned them and it would be odd to do so since we have no contact outside of family gatherings (rare).

I may send an email as I think it's obviously a good idea to find out what their plans are and act accordingly.

Unprune, I can't believe your posts - I could have written them about my family troubles (sorry for highjacking thread). Spot on.

We don't telephone, DP & BIL occasionally exchange emails about the best place to get car parts so most of our info comes via in laws and we generally only meet once/twice a year at extended family do's. We have seen DP once this year by himself and it was lovely - funny & relaxed.

Because we were very close to BIL before SIL came on the scene one theory we have is that she wanted to draw a thick, solid line on the past. She organises the social life, they see lots of her friends, BIL is 'allowed' a certain number of weekends a year for hobbies but otherwise is 'engaged'.

Part of the reason I make an effort is that BIL was for over ten years a big part of our lives and I don't want to look back and think we broke contact, ignored his family, dismissed him from our lives when actually we will always be there in bad times and we just find it sad we're not part of the good times. SIL has a fairly disfunctional family background so she probably sees this as odd and just wants us to clear off.

So what are you going to do?

And what should I do?

Yes, that's exactly our situation too. If it weren't for the vintage Cloth Kits detail, I'd say you were known to me But that's not SIL's style at all.

A couple of years ago, DH and I talked it through, and I said I wasn't happy being the one to keep contact, as BIL was his family (sort of). Any emails to him were replied to by SIL, and she even answered his phone for him. I said I thought DH ought to ask BIL out for a drink without SIL and try to keep that bond going. DH basically doesn't want to - I think he's hurt that BIL doesn't make any effort whatsoever, he's handed it all over to SIL; plus, there had been some family ructions that were nothing to do with us, but DH wasn't impressed one bit.

These things are always so complex. Letting it all go seems very passive, but DH really doesn't suffer fools gladly, and he thinks the pair of them have behaved badly towards my PILs, and he's not willing to step up for more of the same treatment.

In our case it's different because BIL (who I think is pretty ok, certainly bright and funny and interesting when she's not around) has done literally nothing to have contact with dh. In the past, if dh visited his parents, BIL would come round for dinner and so they kept in contact that way. (They're not blood related and didn't grow up together btw.) I think dh has accepted (and is hurt) that he's not important to BIL. So while we would both like him in our lives, it's a bit like flogging a dead horse.

So BIL is being bullied by SIL and seemingly happy to be. I don't think you can make DH and BIL stay in touch. Passive as it may seem, you might have to let it go. Send the email, if you are likely to see them give the children only small gifts: if no reply don't beat yourself up about it.

I don't know how you manage to cope with them at the few gatherings you have. It's a shame for the children, but it must be hell for the adults to try to be civil to each other and wishing things were different.

We make small talk. They are at least quite sociable when SIL is in good form. And now there are children to distract us. Actually, that was when things started to go badly - before children we seemed to be ok. Hmmmm.
Luckily the rest of the family are lovely and just as nonplussed!