poo with-holding, constipation and lots of soiling incidents. I have NO idea how to handle it!

[MinkyBorage]

DD1 is just 3. I started potty training her in March, wee quite successful, but poo nightmare, she go a tummy bug, so back in nappies. Then again in July. Wee great. Dry through night, no wee accidents. Brilliant! Except, poo is always by accident in her knickers. She is obviously with-holding as she will often have several poos (3 or 4) in a day, and atm most of them seem to take her by surprise. She often thinks she is doing a fart, and is surprised by a soiling incident. I eventually realised that she was constipated rather than just awkward, and decided that the best course of action was to put her back in nappies, in order to take the pressure off both of us. I was getting completely hacked off with cleaning up poo out of clothes, and leaving the house was getting harder and harder as you could guarantee that the minute we were out, she would doo a poo. Looking back, I think it probably would have been better to persevere with the knickers, nappies have been a huge step back, and now she rarely does a wee on thje potty or toilet.
I have a sticker chart for her, and she gets a sticker and a treat if she just sits on the toilet for a minute or two, but she won't even do that, she seems to be frightened of a poo coming out. She often complains that they hurt her when they come out, but tbh, I think she is with-holding so effectively, the really hard stuff is still inside her.
I took her to see a homeopath at the weekend, and have decided to give that a go for a month, even though I am very about the effectiveness. I will hopefully then get an ap't with a paediatrician at the hospital who has been recommended as an expert in this field, but I know he will immediately prescribe laxitives, which I am not worried about in itself, but would rather try other things first iykwim.
She's not keen on fruit or veg, although I offer LOADS and dd2 eats loads. She won't drink much water, but does drink juice. Bread, rice and pasta are wholemeal.
I am about to embark on linseed 'tea' to see if that's any use. She won't take any children's fibre supplements.
Sorry, that was very long, and far tmi I expect, but I really feel at the end of my tether.
*Shoul I put her back in knickers now, and start toilet training all over again? or should I wait until the actual constipation problem gets a bit better, i.e. if the homeopath works, or she starts the laxitives
*Should I sod the homeopath and head straight for the laxitives?
*How do I get her to SIT ON THE TOILET???
*This will get better, won't it?

Sorry for very long boring ranty post

Minky minky, how is the Movicol going? I got some today >. DS1 at nursery today so will attempt to smuggle it into his milk tonight. If he notices it I will have to have a serious chat with the poor lad and try to convince him of how much better he will hopefully feel.

Oh and we have also been told only one sachet per day.

Yes start with one sachet a day

One word of warning though.....I am sure Milk is not really great for constipation, and it is one of the things I have cut down on for dd- she now has smoothies and yoghurt drinks

Just a thought-feel free to ignore me

Yes don't worry you are right (AFAIK). We have cut down a lot on milk (although he still has too much). He is obsessed with it. He would drink it all day if he could. He now only has it first thing and last thing, although asks for it repeatedly throughout day and sometimes gets a small amount of skimmed when he gets up from nap as he is so grumpy otherwise! I can't imagine him ever going to bed without a large cup of "blue moo" as he calls it . Trouble is it is the only thing I have been able to hide the prune juice in (strangely as you would think it would be better disguised in orange juice!).

How is you

Ooops meant to say how is your DD lilymolly?

Hello,
Hurray Egg, that's great you've got some, I really hope it works.
movicol going down OK here, I'm doing two a day, the only thing I can get her to drink it in is apple juice. She doesn't seem to mind it too much. This morning she actually SAT on the potty and tried really really hard to squeeze a poo out, and some did come out, (I'm assuming there is no such thing as tmi on a thread like this, sorry if I'm wrong) but it was very thin, and she really struggled with it, and I would guess that it was no more than a tablespoons worth in the end. Following that, she sat on the potty for about 15 mins blowing up a baloon, but to no avail. She did another poo later which was a bit bigger, but nothing impressive yet! This is day 4 of movicol. I'm wondering if there is actually something physically wrong with her now as she really did struggle this morning. Hmm. Does this sound normal?

Sounds normal to me minky

DD sometimes produces little ones then a massive one.
The key I have found is to get her confidence and thrill factor from having even a tiny poo, then encouraging her to keep pushing and more poo with come.

God I sound like an expert dont i

To be honest, I am so delighted that she seems to have cracked it and i feel quite proud
Still got the apt with constipation clinic on Thursday, so I will let you know what advie I get.

This is day 2 without movicol, and dd is still pooing so,please keep fingers crossed for us.
X

Oh wow! She's still doing poos without the movicol? tHAT'S GREAT. Fingers crossed. Well done littleLilyMolly
I never thought my life would become so dominated by poo!

its very sad I know.......

Yippee for pooing!

That's great news lilymolly!

The doc asked me today if DS1 had any reason to not like pooing at nursery / in public etc and did we (as a family) always lock ourselves away and say it was a private thing. I had just talked for about 10 mins non stop about DS1 and his poos, with lots of detail and I did say to her "as you can see I love to talk poo" . I told her that DS1 has always come in with me since he could crawl, and now DS2 races over to join us too. They love it when I go to the loo . DD never gets to look as she is not mobile yet!

I know Egg, I was wondering if doctor thought I has caused problem by being uptight about poo, whereas in our home, it is really quite the opposite!
tODAY dd HAS DONE three; one in the toilet (v. small) and two in nappies, bit bigger. Not the huge evacuation I was expecting and hoping for though, by any means.
Have you had any results yet Egg?
LilyMolly, how's it going without the Movicol?

Wow though, three in one day is pretty good, esp one in the LOO!

DS1 had one yesterday, and it seemed he was only trying on and off for about 10 mins (as he is in nappies I let him get on with it as if I intervene it upsets him). I was busy washing up and he said "guess what's in my pants" (for some reason we call nappies pants...). I didn't believe he had really done it as there was so little fuss (normally tries for at least a day on and off, and cries a lot).

I asked if it hurt less and he said yes, and seemed happy. It was still like a rock, but considering we only started the Movicol less than 24 hrs earlier, and I had not managed to get it all into him (ran out of hours and drinks to hide it in, dont dare put too much in each thing in case he spots it and wont take it at all) it wasn't bad!

I did put some in his orange juice and he said it tasted funny and wouldn't drink it, but drinks it in milk (maybe the prune juice masks the movicol ).

Well the good news is DS1 is pooing without PAIN! And he went twice yesterday with no fuss whatsoever. He said "I need a poo" and then there was some poo. However he does not seem to realise he has done it as he has only ever done (in his memory as it has been over a year) massive rock hard ones, so when he passes a normal one, he thinks he hasn't actually done it.

So now we need to get him going on the loo, instead of in his nappy, so that he doesn't wander round with a nappy full of poo for a while (both DH and I have colds and don't even notice the smell, and as we are not used to him going straight away have not even thought to check, poor lad!).

How is everyone else getting on?

That's excellent news Egg, know what you mean about them not knowing they have done one, a couple of times now dd has put her hand in her nappy to check which is just a delight!
Saw GP today and have upped the dose of movicol to 3 sachets a day, so hoping to get things really moving. She still seems to strain when tryi9ng to do a poo, but hopefully this will get better.
LilyMolly, how is your dd doing?

Hello minky! DS1 is probably only on about two thirds to three quarters of a sachet per day at the mo as I dont manage to get it all in to his drinks but it still seems to be making the difference. He had a really big one yesterday but said it didn't hurt at all . It did take him a while though, off and on. He also likes to put his hand down to check now but thankfully on the outside of the nappy, and he likes to squeeze .

I wanted to start a thread saying "I LOVE MOVICOL" as it really seems to be making such a difference. DS1 is eating better again, although still barely any fruit or veg (did eat banana for first time in about 2 months yesterday, which although is bad for pooing is good in the long term).

Am thinking I will start potty training after Christmas... no point trying to do it now when we are staying at inlaws in 10 days time. I do not want MIL to be present when I am attempting potty training!

Brilliant! That's great news!
I know what you mean about mil being there when potty training. My mil has lots of good advice for helping with the constipation too . Am thinking the same re potty training after Christmas too.

Hello

I hope you dont mind me joining this thread.

I have read with interest the thread on what has worked for you all. I am suffering terrible problems with my 3 year old girl who goes a week without passing. During that period she will hold it in or be unable to pass it (sometimes not clear which it is). From day 5 onwards she is irriatable and upset (as we all would be) and it is upsetting for all concerned. On occassion it has also led to high temperature and sickness. I am desperate to help my little girl who is intelligent and full of life when not suffering.

We have tried califig. lactoluse and movicol (in small doses). Nothing seems to work. We have also made an appointment with a homeopath.

Of all of the solutions you tried what was successful and did you use any helplines that may offer support.

Thank you in anticipation

Hi cocoqueen! Welcome to the world of poo. So sorry your poor DD is suffering. It is heartbreaking isn't it? And all over something so "simple".

My DS1 definitely seems improved by the movicol, what dosage were you giving your DD? We are now averaging one sachet a day but he does still go two days without a poo, but rarely longer (used to be five or so days).

As minky says, her DD is on 3 sachets per day so maybe you need to up the dose? I do think my DS1 would be a lot better off if we could sort his diet out, but for now the movicol seems to be helping.

I totally know what you mean about the irritability etc. My DS1 has been the same and the longer he has gone without a poo the sadder and more glum he seems. He has also had unexplained high temps which I never related to the pooing but could easily have coincided with when he has held it in for one day too many.

I think one thing we have all said is how bright and full of life our little ones are when they have recently had a poo and are feeling "normal" again. It is so sad to think how awful it must make them feel .

BTW, to those of you who have been using movicol for longer, do you need to see GP again to get more (we were given 30 sachets) or can you get a repeat prescription?

Thank you for the response Egg. Have been to the Doctors and have asked to be referred. He has also told us to up the movicol to 4 sachets a day until the current blockage clears. high temperatures and sickness is happening in the evenings and during the day she is not eating much (usually has a good appetite). Hoping for soem movement soon otherwise Doc says it will be hospital to clear it. I am sure that will be very traumatic for her and not want we want.

Fingers crossed for movement!

Hi and welcome Coco!

Thought I report back and let you know how we are getting on, if only to let you all know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

DD is now pooing once a day on the toilet, with no soiling and no fuss.

We had a apt with constipation clinic last week which was cancelled due to snow even though me and dd managed to attend, but I managed to have a chat with the nurse over the phone, who told me that dd needs to stay on movicol for a little longer yet, and if we take her off it she will almost certainly revert back to being constipated, and true to life, at the end of last week (we had stopped giving her it as she was doing so well) she started getting harder poos and was struggling to pass them. Back to movicol this weekend and all is well again
We have another appointment with hospital on Thursday, and I will report back with advice.

Cocoqueen - please persevere with the GP or hospital- the only advice to give you is to insist on treatment and be very aggressive/assertive in our approach to the GP. I feel that I could have been fobbed off by the gp with lactulose should he have ahd his way. I gave each drug a week, lactulose, senna then I demanded Movicol, and I kept upping the dose from 1 to 2 a day until dd produced a decent poo on a daily basis. I make no apologies for this, as I was adamant that dd was going to be sorted, and then even when things where getting better, I still demanded a referral to the constipation clinic at the hospital and the waiting list was only 2 weeks.

Movicol can be used in high doses up to 8 sachets a day to clear the impacted faeces which sounds like your dd has.
Fingers crossed it works.
My dds appetite really improved once she started pooing, and her whole personality seemed to become brighter too.

Please please stick with it, and ensure she gets the treatment she deserves.

Let me know if you need any other advice
LM x

Thank you so much for the note. Dd had a rough night with high temperature and sickness. Only water as she has had very little to eat for the last few days. 4 sachets in her and no sign. I never knew that you had to pray for poo in such a way! Had to phone NHS last night as she was shaking so hard and was cold and then hot. Going back to the doctors this morning as we were very scared last night with what is happening to her body.
She looks so small and I find it hard to believe that this is all from poo. When will it end....

:-(

Gosh coco it sounds like your DD really needs to be seen quickly and maybe hospital is the way forward as she sounds so unwell. DS1 has had some bad times but never as bad as that . I hope the doc has referred you straight away this morning.

On a plus note, I think DS1 is definitely seeing some all round improvement as well as just pooing better. He is actually playing with other kids again at softplay and being more like his old self .

Hearing all your stories fills me with hope that we will get it sorted.
We went back to the doctors today and he has given her an ointment for her bottom to numb it to stop the pain if any comes out. He has said that if we dont see anything by tomorrow then he will send us to the hospital to be seen by an expert on the same day.
She has had 3 out of the 4 sachets today with no result yet.
The doctor also thinks that she has an infection on top of it which is why she was shaking and hot and cold. He said until we can get the system cleared he doesnt want to treat the infection as she is having so much pushed into her and hopefully it will calm down when she has a clear system again.
We are controlling the temperature with calpol and nurofen for the time being.

Lets hope she gets a better nights sleep tonight and we get a result.

Glad Egg that your little one is back to himself. It is amazing how it brings them down.

Hi Been to the hospital today and the nurse was fabulous.
Basically took a history, disagnosed that yes it was constipation created by potty training which had eventually led to a blockage which caused all the leaking a few months ago.

She recommended we stay on Movicol for at least 6 months at about 1 or 2 sachets a day.
She recommended cutting down her milk intake and cheese intake as dairy can exacerbate the problem, recommended lots of water, apple juice (contains sorbitol) and lots of fruit and veg.

She told me dd seemed like a very intelligent little girl who would probably sort this out with no problem within a few months [proud emoticon]

So I am really pleased with how everything is going.

Hope that inspires you all

Yay lilymolly! That's great news. I know someone on here said apple juice was not good so am relieved the nurse has recommended it as DS1 does like it.

I have discovered a (small) downside to DS1 being so improved... he now needs about 3 hours less sleep . He used to sleep all night (approx 11.5hrs) and then 2-3 hrs every lunchtime. Now he is sleeping 10 hours a night (9 last night!) and struggling to get to sleep at lunch. He seems so full of energy (although still reluctant to walk if he can get in the pushchair).

I just decided to look at Movicol info on netdoctor and it says it should be stored in fridge if you are using it over a 12-hour period (we always split it between a few drinks during the day). It doesn't mention this on the info sheet inside the box. What does everyone else do or are they always drunk in one go.

Coco how is your DD now? I really hope she is feeling better. Did you end up having to go to the hospital or did the Movicol work eventually?