Can I get a copy of a record of an ambulance call out?

[elliejjtiny]

Not sure where it would be or even if such a thing exists. Ds is 17. I'm doing his PIP form and struggling to find enough evidence to send with it. In February he tripped over during a park run. I wasn't there (his grandad was good by the finish line) but several people came up to him and asked if he was ok. He went into shut down so an ambulance was called. His heart rate and blood pressure was really high , although that's normal for him when he is stressed. The paramedic talked to me on the phone and asked me if I wanted them to take him to hospital and I said no.

I'm assuming the paramedics would have had to fill in a form or something. Would it have been sent to the GP? Or somewhere else?

Your gp should have a record of it, I would phone them

GP may have been sent a summary but I’m not sure how it will help with PIP.
You DS needs evidence of how his disability affects him and what ordinary every day tasks he needs help with as listed on the PIP form . The evidence is best from an HCP who is involved in his care so knows how his disability affects him eg physiotherapist, psychologist, nurse

What is his disability?

Thank you. He is being assessed for autism but no diagnosis yet. He also has hypermobility (diagnosed aged 3).

I have put down on the form the name and phone number of the psychologist who is doing the autism assessment. I haven't got any written evidence of anything though apart from the paediatrician letter from when he was 3 showing his hypermobility diagnosis and a couple of lines in a report by an early help worker saying she visited him at school and he sat there in silence and wouldn't speak. I thought the ambulance report would show evidence that his heart rate and blood pressure get really high when stressed and show that there are times when he can't speak and that a simple fall can result in an ambulance being called. To be honest I am struggling to find any evidence at all.

With all due respect most people get high blood pressure/heart rate when stressed. I say wait for his autism diagnosis before claiming anything.

why did you tell say no to bringing him to hospital?

TBH I wouldn’t use falling at park run as an example on a PIP form. The descriptors are ordinary everyday activities. So if he falls walking indoors. Or if he gets very stressed and has a high heart rate just going to a local shop so he would need accompanied. Those are the type of things that make someone eligible for PIP.
But you will have better chance of success if he’s been thoroughly assessed or had therapy or support from someone who can detail the additional help he needs with everyday tasks

So he’s 17 - to get your evidence for PIP you need to think what extra care does he need more than the average 17 year old? For example my cousin has hyper mobility but she just pops whatever it is back in and carries on. Someone else with hyper mobility may need to use a wheelchair. What else does he need support with?

There will be an electronic patient care record (ePCR). You can probably request it from your local ambulance service but I’m not sure they are obligated to provide it. Worth trying though. The GP is unlikely to be able to access the content of it.

@elliejjtiny

I recently completed my son's PIP forms successfully.

The ambulance call out won't help your claim.

Go to this website and read their guides on claiming for autism and ADHD. My son was awarded high rate care and lower rate mobility. The guides on the website are really helpful. I didn't have much evidence, either, but filing in the forms has to be done in a certain way, with reference to the various PIP descriptors.

Link

Thank you everyone. I said no to taking him into hospital because the paramedics said that if they knew he had just tripped they wouldn't take him in anyway but they didn't know if he had tripped or collapsed because he couldn't tell him. Hey would also have take him to the nearest a and e which isn't our local one where the Drs have seen him before. So I decided to get him home, see if his heart rate went back to normal and ask him if he tripped or collapsed when he was able to speak.

Ds needs are we need to keep medication locked away because he has previously taken an overdose. He struggles with communication so we have to speak to college on his behalf a lot. We need to have constant vigilance when he is out to try and avoid hat helped at park run. Several of his friends have my phone number so they can contact me if there is a problem when he is out with them. He won't tell us if he a ill or injured so we need to keep a close eye on him and check his feet every few days as he has a history of ingrown toenails, blisters, verrucas etc that get infected and he doesn't tell us. I only found out the first time because I was doing his laundry and there was a bit of blood on one of his socks.

I work at a GP surgery we can print out a patient summary that will show medications, the last 3 appointments and minor and major conditions. This is usually enough. I'm not a secretary but from what I gather the people processing can contact the GP surgery for more info. We would then call the patient to check if they consent to us sharing their info with them.

When I've had an ambulance call out they've given me a physical form at the time. If I'm admitted there's a form on discharge which goes to the GP. I can see the discharge forms on the nhs/GP app but not the ambulance forms so I'm not sure they get sent.
ti be honest though as others have said, I think it's very unlikely such a form would be of any use for PIP

Genuinely not trying to be nasty, I have two SEN children myself, but how would extra money help with any of these needs? Would you use it to fund therapy? Is anything available on the nhs? Is it that his needs are preventing you from working? If so you could look at carers allowance?

Are you getting support or someone to check your form? His support needs don't sound massively high from what you've described and the fact he can access the community with friends won't lead to overly high scores - go through thinking about daily things a 17 year old should be able to do and what he can/can't do in comparison

Have you got a copy of his college individual education plan or EHCP. Evidence in a statement of support provided from a pastoral support worker would also help. A&E notes from the overdose, any CAMHS referrals, CAMHS letters etc..

This is none of anyone’s business. He will either be entitled to a claim or not.

If the GP can't provide a summary then do a FOI request to the ambulance service.
Absolutely keep going with his PIP application. This is a good example of additional needs that could have an additional cost. If a family member wasn't available for him to access day to day life them he would have needed a paid carer due to his disability (likely ASD).
Unlike DLA which is solely based in care in hours, you need to emphasise the financial cost, actual or potential, of accessing day-to-day activities for PIP.

I think @namechange0998776554799000 was giving helpful perspective. It may not be 'anyone's business' but we all know this process tends to be onerous and stressful and nothing the OP has said seems to fit with what PP is for, nor will the ambulance report help from what she's said so it's fair enough to ask the questions and focus things more or it's a waste of time and energy for OP. On the 'keeping an eye'/vigilance thing, my 17yo ASD DS doesn't tell me things too, like the foot example, but it wouldn't cross my mind to claim for that.

"On x date, DS fell and an ambulance was called by members of the public who were concerned for him as he was unable to speak to them . During the assessment by the paramedics, DS was also unable to speak to them which resulted in them being unable to make a proper assessment of his injuries, medical condition and needs. No one knew whether he had collapsed or just tripped and this complicated the situation. This is an example of how DS's autism affects his ability to engage with people on a day to day basis as he cannot reliably or consistently speak to strangers, navigate alone or ask for help."

Don't use that verbatim, it's not the best but it's a start! I highly recommend you speak to a specialist support group to get help in filling this out - one example is:
https://www.facebook.com/share/16KiDkB1gH/

PP are being very harsh - PIP money is about accessing services, devices or people to support him which could be a paid app on his phone, a carer with him, allowing you to support him on different ways and all sorts of other options.

PALS (patient advice & liaison) at the ambulance service might be a good place to start

I work in GP land as a clinician. We are usually notified with usually a very brief summary of what’s happened, sometimes it’s literally a few standard lines so don’t hold your breath on detail.
Worth noting that if you have the NHS app you can see interactions and summaries on there.

You say he struggles with communication, has he seen anyone about this? Speech therapist, psychologist, support worker at school?
These are the people who it will be very useful to get a report from because it will likely have the recommendation that your son is accompanied by a friend or family member when out. That is the type of evidence of help he requires they are looking for.
Also because PIP is for people with long term disabilities they are generally expecting that people will have been involved with services and had therapy and support to improve their situation and independence. It’s much more straightforward to get PIP if you can detail the therapy he’s had and provide their reports and recommendations

Several of his friends have my phone number so they can contact me if there is a problem when he is out with them

That's not proof of anything except that he's able to independently leave the house and go about his business. So zero points for mobility before you start.

Thank you. He is in a friendship group where half of them have SEN and they are all have fairly similar needs. The other SEN parents and I have a system where one or more of us are very close by when they are out and the other friends know they can contact any of us. If someone has a meltdown, shut down or falls etc then they can call any of us. They have all known each other since at least year 7 and some of them went to the same primary and preschool as well so they are really good with him. He wouldn't be able to go out with friends if I didn't have that system in place.

I've got the paperwork from the overdose so I can send them that. He had one appointment with Camhs but he couldn't speak to them so they discharged him. I have the report though. I have his iep from secondary school but he doesn't have one from college. We have a meeting with them in a few weeks to find out if he can get more support at college because he is struggling in lessons as he can't ask if there is something he doesn't understand.

Is it on his nhs app records? My call to 111 and referral to ED was documented there.