Your views on a child being given a bedroom with no window for 3.5 years - I was this child

[MarcL]

Hello All - Your opinion would be really appreciated.

I recently read a thread about a 16 year old boy wanting to move into a bedroom with no window but I wanted to hear other peoples opinions on my experience. When I was 5 I had my own window and bedroom in a 3 bedroom council house, my sister had been born and was 1 year old when my parents moved me out into my brothers room which we shared for 18 months to 2 years. Then when I turned 7 my dad put up a partition wall and I was given the room with no window. This room had its normal access and then a door into my brothers room whom had the window. When it was time for bed my brother would close his door and I would have to close the normal access door making it completely dark in my room with hardly any ventilation exception from under the doors. The sun came up in my brothers room and went down on my side of the wall in our house. I had a budgie that everyday I had to carry into my brothers room so it had light. This I endured for 3.5 years, the room was stuffy especially in the Summer. To wake up and not know if it is day time is a very tough thing to understand, I'd have to go to the hall to see if it was light. The room was big enough for my single bed and a small wardrobe but I never played in the room as it was too dark, so much so I don't remember what was at the bottom of my bed (if anything). I did have a bedroom light though. I started wetting the bed and had nightmares, had my brother knocking on the wall at night saying winding me up "You're in the dark, you're in the dark" and when I moaned to my parents about this he was merely told to stop saying it, to close his door and then the entrance door was closed too....still leaving me in the dark. After about 1 year I became different and started fighting other children at school, my school work standard fell, it was like I was at war with everyone and to go from a very caring loving child to a 'you're not going to get the better of me child' wasn't healthy. Moving forward I'm not sure what I'm trying to justify on here? I have spoken to my parents about the room as being a parent myself to 3 children I can't even believe that they did this. Their excuse is "Marc you argued with your brother aged Me 6 and him just under 2 years older than me age 8 say and left toys lying around so this was the best option? Also adding that if they could have afforded a window then they would have got one BUT they didn't instead my mum said she saved one of her pay packets for a whole year to take us to Majorca in 1986 (being when I was 9 and 2 years into having that windowless room). Today they still avoid any discussions about the room, I don't have a good relationship with them and we have never been close as they can't accept that they are wrong for keeping me in that room. I know its hard for anyone to understand unless they have been through anything like this but a few last things before I ask my question.

Nobody I think can understand the dark room situation but you've all had this when you were younger and that's your parents either get annoyed and shout "Go to your rooms and stay there" and "Right you can go to bed early for being naughty (so sent to a prison room - actually no as prison rooms have windows)" but you all had windows and fresh air, when you didn't it was hell!

I have always hated the winter nights, even as a 47 year old now, I can bare it but when I was 7 and it was getting dark early that dark would last for 15 hours a day e.g. 5pm-8am this is due to the dark room too.

I have had M.E (an illness which I really do budget right) since I was very young. If you read up on M.E it can be caused from ever suffering a very stressful, traumatic experience (the room was). I even spoke to 2 doctors at the same time and brought the above up and they confirmed that yes the room experience could definitely caused this.

Waking up feeling groggy and with headaches.

My mum always said that out of the 3 children that I was the most anxious child but I think she is that stupid that she cannot see that to keep a child in a windowless room at such a young age can create massive anxieties from a young age.

So my question is this as I need to try to bury the past is how do I go about getting over something that just makes me shake my head in disbelief over this, I could never do this to my children at such a young age.

Do you think my parents were right to do this as they could easily have asked my nan for a loan for a window to be put in but never did. They never got Building Reg's to convert the room as only a partition wall was put up by my dad?

Were they right to do this?

Lastly how can a parent/s put up a partition wall and see that side of the room becomes dark and then put their 7 year old child in it?

My mum recently in a heated phone call stated in a sarcastic way "Well I'm sorry if it messed you up when you were younger but that was what was best for you and your brother" which I find to be the most ignorant comment I have ever heard. I am not a negative person very positive and have a massive strong will to never quit 'Life is a fight, fight to live', I'm happily married to my wife and have 3 wonderful children, own my own conveyancing business and achieved many amazing things in my life even though M.E can knock you on you ass far more times than you'd ever believe. I never quit anything but this childhood room business niggles me no matter what. I think its a case of my parents cannot and will no accept responsibility for their stupid actions when I was so young.

Cheers for reading this and all comments welcome as this may make me realise they were right or confirm that they were wrong. Cheers Marc

I actually also contacted a friend who lives in my old house now and he has taken a photo and filmed the room and house. He stated that when the people moved in back in 1986 they knocked down the partition wall as that room was too dark. They also added a window where it should be and this is my wall paper on my mobile phone now as that's what I wished to see for the 3.5 years I was behind the wall.

And part of the parents' justification for what they did was that the younger brother (the OP) apparently argued with the older one and 'left toys lying around'.

Clearly the older brother was not held to account for arguing (it takes two to argue), and clearly somebody decided it was not ok to leave toys lying around inna shared bedroom, and the solution to that was to separate the boys, leaving the favoured one in a nice bedroom of his own and the scapegoat in a space with no window - was it the older brother who objected to the toys?

His parents are narcissistic because they wanted their children to have their own space?
I can't believe what I read on here sometimes. Hope you're all being perfect parents to your own children!

My daughters bedroom is made of the en-suite. We inherited two teenagers while I was pregnant with her, and can't afford to move. It was move some walls and magic a bedroom out of a bathroom, or she would have been in with us for ever and a day.

It's not what I would have hoped for for her ( there is a window, but a small one), but it's the best we can do for her and ALL of the children. Is it ideal? Nope. Is it the room I dreamed my baby would have when we bought this house? Nope. Has she got a comfy bed, toys, a wardrobe and somewhere to call her own? Yup.

In all honestly, I'd be pissed off with her if in twenty years she were to decide to start criticising her father and I because her room wasn't comparable to her sibling's rooms when she was tiny. We have done the best we can with what we've got and sounds like your parents did too. I'm not surprised your mum has been short with you about it.

To be fair. At the time what your parents did with the rooms was not uncommon especially in council housing. I think it also would have been unlikely to have been the norm for people to 'borrow' money in order to put extra windows in etc. having said all that you feel that it traumatised you and that's valid.
It's clear from your post that you should
Continue to seek therapy about your childhood in general .

Mathanxiety, Jesus Christ please get a grip!

I think that the 80s were just different in what was considered acceptable. I don't remember anyone being overly concerned with childrens mental health.

I hated my parents smoking in the house, the car, whilst cooking. That definitely wasn't good for my health.

Also, sometimes as the youngest I had to travel in the boot of the estate car. No seat belt let alone a car seat!

And Jesus, the childhood sunburns that I have had. I don't hate my parents though, I can see that they were fairly typical of the generation.

Bless you, I would have hated that. I suffer from seasonal affective disorder and I hate the dark. You were in a small dark space for a long time and it has had an impact on you. Your family are not close now and I think that is also something which has an impact (from my own experience). I hope you find some solace talking about these things, and I wish you and your wife all the best for your married life and if you have a family.

I think this is more to do with emotional
neglect than anything. You may have been fine in that room if they had listened to your concerns / mitigated as much as possible and told your brother to stop winding you up.

Maybe it isn’t about the room, how were your parents OP in general. Did they listen to you?

Not a child but most people working offshore spend half their lives sleeping in tiny cabin with no window. Can’t say it ever bothered me as I used a lamp and a clock.

God its shite being a parent sometimes.

Cant do right for doing wrong.

The window situation wasn't ideal, and the fact that you were nominated to have the crappiest room suggests you may be right to have some resentment about your childhood.

However I don't believe the lack of a window has caused any of the problems you have experienced in your life, from anxiety to ME.

Also I think you might have put your name in your OP, maybe ask Mumsnet to delete that.

@mathanxiety

Well wow, this is just totally over the top rubbish!!!

However I don't believe the lack of a window has caused any of the problems you have experienced in your life, from anxiety to ME.

What exactly makes you believe it can’t have caused either the anxiety the OP has or her ME?
I mean anxiety often stems from traumatic events (incl in childhood) and what constitute a traumatic event varies A LOT from one person to the next. So why can’t it the case for the OP?
As for ME, the OP is totally right in saying that it can be triggered by a traumatic event (and pregnancy, vaccines, and various viruses which is the most well known trigger). So again, why is it that you dint ‘believe’ this is the case??

I have to say, this thread is awash with beliefs and posters stating stuff as THE truth even when it flies into the face if the OP’s experience. It’s disheartening tbh.

Having a room without a window so you have your own space isnt necessarily a bad thing but there were ways they could have made it lighter for you if they knew you disliked the dark

Sounds like they may have been trying to manage the best set up they could with limited resources. Affording a holiday one year is not the same as affording a bigger house.

They might be defensive as it probably hurts to hear your child saying their home caused them trauma.

the first house I lived in til I was 4 the room had no window. I don’t remember it being a problem at all. I shared the room with my sister. (I know people will say I can’t remember but I actually have an amazing memory and can remember lots back to 18 months old.)

I don’t think the room is the cause of all your issues. I definitely think you need to speak to someone and help out it behind you.

I sometimes look back at my childhood and question some things my parents did, especially now I’m a parent.

However, as a parent myself, I know being a parent isn’t easy, you learn as you go and we don’t always get things right. Our parents were the same. Also, back then, money was tighter and it was quite a common thing to put a partition wall up. I wonder if your parents thought they were doing the right thing by giving you your own space, a little den where you can have a little privacy.

You wouldn’t dream of putting your children in a windowless room because you know how it made you feel. But maybe they didn’t realise how it made you feel.

If you want my advice, move on. Think of all the good times of your childhood and what they DID do right. Accept things might have been tough for them and they were maybe just doing their best. They made a mistake, they got it wrong. But accept it and move on.

I’ve just lost a parent and life is too short to hold on to these things.

I’ve had therapy recently and one of the most significant moments for me was hearing and understanding that people (parents) did the best that they knew how to at the time. It’s enabled me to move on from some sticking points in my past.

Also FWIW, my 4 cousins (3 girls and 1boy) lived in a 3 bedroom house with their parents and grandparents. My male cousin had his bed literally in the cupboard under the stairs for 5 years. I remember everyone (including him) thinking it was an ingenious solution (1980s)In retrospect it feels appalling even though there were no other options

I doubt your parents would have been allowed to just add an extra window to their council house.

I'm sorry. It doesn't sound ideal, but I think your relationship & health issues aren't really about your childhood bedroom. The suggestion to look at the stately homes is a wise one.

Thanks all for your comments. I'm very open to peoples opinions. Just responding to a few comments.

As a parent of 3 children of my own I can see the emotional support and physical support is very important growing up. This I'm sure after reading a lot of the comments is a factor.

Paintingonthewall12 - In answer to your question: No they didn't listen, my mum was the strict one, my dad worked hard and I think was too tired to get involved. My mum suffered with PND as she used hit us with slippers, wooden spoons 5-10 on each hand), smacked our faces, threw table pads, strangled my brother when he was 15 in an argument (that's not normal) but he fought her off, then when my dad returned home she made out it was his fault (it definitely was not) my brother punished by my dad then, children were definitely 'to be seen and not heard'.

Some one stated people didn't borrow in the 80's (yes they did). In our family my nan lent my auntie over £18,000 due to a house fire because my auntie had no house insurance, so I think my parents could have asked for a loan of £150-200 for a window. I know I had a roof over my head but there is no way they were good supporting parents, I played many sports at county and national levels and both have never seen me play in whatever sports I achieved in. So to all those stating my parents were trying their best then lets just agree to disagree, as you are going by your experiences, each parent to there own hey!

As grandparents my parents have had nothing to do with their Grandchildren. Yet my wives parents have been the best Grandparents ever. Both sets have had the same opportunity as each other but my parents were pre-occupied with my sisters 2 children.

Replying to some of your comments:

One comment talked about blacked out blinds and how people prefer them these days.......My response - Yeah you're right but they have a choice to open them and let in the light, having a wall at such a young age and no choice that's different.

One comment was right, a lot of people are judging as an adult but not seeing as a young 7 year old that can affect your mental growth.

One comment what about the children in WW2 and going into the bunkers, terrible I agree but they didn't go in there alone they were with their families (In it together). I've restored 40 WW2 graves and have a massive respect for what the soldiers gave for our freedom but that comment was a bit extreme.

Many I think have made me realise it's the childhood trauma that I have to sort out and try to move on. I would say I am angry that every night they slept with the window open I was stuck in that crappy room. Some people will never understand as they have never experienced it. One person commented and stated for 4 years she was in a room with no window, question, how old were you, how big was the room and did you have a close family. It would be interesting to hear.

One comment made me think some people had it far worse (and its no competition here) but being locked in a cupboard that must have been scary. Question: Did you have a good relationship with your parents, as flip it, how could you be that angry to lock your child in a cupboard? Plus a person stated they were sent to boarding school and they were the only ones from their family to do so Question - Did you have a good relationship with your family in the end?

All in all thank you for your comments. This site is a good site, loved reading your views too. Some I can just laugh at but all in some good advice and experiences read.

Lastly:

Thegoodbadandugly thanks for your one line comments and also your comments to others experiences on here. Do you have an experience or do you just comment on all the links on this site?

All I can say is I've met the good, I've challenged the bad....you must certainly be the.....

I think you are fixing on the window because you have other issues with your family and relationships. In itself the lack of a window did not cause your troubles.

Having read your update it sounds like you had a dysfunctional and abusive childhood. That is the issue not the window.

Honestly, in the scheme of things, I don't think not having a window is that big of a deal. But it's obviously affected you so you should seek therapy if you need it.

DH had a converted cupboard room. It was hideous. I slept in it a few times and refused. It’s not just the lack of light, it was also prone to damp and full of dust.
The conversion could have been done much better, with a window into the hall. But his mum didn’t want to spoil the hall!
They could have moved a few streets away and gotten somewhere with more bedrooms but she didn’t like walking that far!
it was fairly common where DH was from. The difference being his parents did have the option to move, others didn’t.

Your parents made a mistake. They probably thought they were doing the right thing but clearly it wasn’t. You are making this your whole life, seriously there are kids living in terrible housing. My mother had to sleep on the floor for a while because they couldn't afford a bed. Get some therapy and stop fixating on this issue.