Autism or poor parenting?

[NotSure20]

Name change to not have this linked to my main account.

My cousin and her DH have an almost 4 year old boy who I've has ASD suspicions about for a while, as have other members of the family.

Main things are - not responding to his name until he is shouted at (repeated three or four times before raised voices). He will then whinge at the louder volume.

Lack of eye contact with many but not all people.

Not wanting physical contact. Most nights he refuses a kiss or cuddle at bedtime and won't hug when given a choice BUT also doesn't protest that much when others hug him.

Speech problems - he can communicate fine but mispronounces many letters - L, T R etc. Parents don't correct him or try to intentionally model correct speech.

He is as preschool and as far as extended family know they haven't said anything and now we don't know whether to raise anything with them.

This could be parents who aren't correcting behaviour but could be something more. Any thoughts from those more experienced please?

Doesn’t necessarily sound like ASD or poor parenting to me. Sounds like a typical four year old who doesn’t want you to kiss him.

Quite common not to be able to pronounce some letters at that age. I believe R is generally the last letter to be properly pronounced and tends to happen by 6. DD still says it like W often. It's quite a complex sound as it requires the tongue.

The other stuff doesn't sound particularly unusual. 3-year-olds aren't known for their listening skills generally

Is his behaviour actually bad? You mention parenting or lack of but it doesn't sound like he's behaving badly? Not pronouncing letters and not liking cuddles aren't really bad behaviour!

There are other things that the parents don't really acknowledge. He doesn't acknowledge others' feelings, but that could be an age thing. He could be sitting with all of the toy cars but if another child has one he'll scream that they aren't sharing. He seems very unresponsive to pain, not bothered by danger (running into roads) but also very little response from parents other than shouting.FWIW I'm fine with no kisses or cuddles - I usually offer a wave or high five but he doesn't respond often. It's like he's off in a different world unless there is significant attempts to get his attention.

Still sounds pretty normal.

Why are autism or poor parenting the only choices? Everything you describe sounds like normal 4 yo behaviour to me.

There is no way you could confuse autism with poor parenting with my son. It is very clear he not neurologically typical, it's a large set of behaviours. Have his school/preschool expressed any concerns?

Given his parents don't seem to bother interacting much it's not surprising he's in his own world. It sounds like normal age behaviour mixed with inattentive parenting. No autism.

Are you a parent because you are being very judgmental about these parents? It really isn’t any of your business and you don’t sound very supportive.

It could be neither or it could be both. Autistic children have shit parents sometimes, it doesn't just happen to NT children.

None of this sound unusual for a young child.
They are right not to correct his pronunciation, that usually just leads to more frustration. I would not for a child to hug or kiss either.

Pre school would surely be raising concerns if they had issues with his behaviour and learning? As will school when he's 4 and starts attending.

There could be a many different issues going on, not sure why bad parenting or autism are your two options.

It sounds like you think their parenting is not good enough regardless of whether the child has an identifiable diagnosis.

No one gets a diagnosis from an MN post - in fact a lot of professionals won’t diagnose at that age. Why does it bother you so much?

I would suggest you butt out. Nothing you have described is out of the ordinary for a 4 year old, and if there are concerns raised by school then it is none of your business, and you do not need to know or be told.

And just to add. Parents who have autistic children tend to be exceptionally competent parents. Because everything- literally everything is more complicated, less certain and a very great deal 'harder'. So park your judgement until you know what you are talking about.

Aw that’s a lovely thing to say - thank you from a parent with 2 children with ASD.

Sorry, I regret (OP, I regret and apologise) being so snippy. ASD 12 year old here and I am so so tired of being judged for my parenting. You have no idea how exhausting it is, how demoralising it is.

And I am not telling all and sundry (except on MN :) ) about his issues. I expect your cousin is not doing so either.

DS is under many professionals and they all say the same- parents of neurodivergent children have to work harder than most, have to absorb and develop competencies almost by osmosis.

It's the hardest thing I have ever done, that is for sure.

@OrangePumpkinLobelia don’t apologise, you were spot on and far less snippy than the OP.

Genuinely wondering if you are a parent OP?

Nothing stands out as abnormal from what you've written, so maybe you just have misconceptions about how normal children are?

I imagine parents of neurodiverse children have to be switched on all the time. It must be exhausting - and then on top of that you get ignorant, judgemental idiots making comments. You are incredible.

OP, tbh I think it's bad form to attempt diagnosis-by-internet-forum on someone else's child.

Ok, I take on board what you are saying. We have had conversations in depth about both parents' individual and mismatched parenting styles - one is very gentle but with no outcome for poor behaviour (say sorry for hitting that child, good boy for saying sorry - now he says sorry whilst continuing the behaviour) whilst the other just shouts.

For the poster that asked, I do have a child, and whilst she is in no way perfect they are completely different children (very small age gap).

I work with a few children who are ASD and whose parents fiercely advocate for their children - I have nothing but respect for them. I don't see similar levels of attention from the parents involved.

Working with and being a parent for an autistic child is not comparable.

I don't take offence at all, no need to apologise. Yes I am being blunt here, and asking if these things point towards ASD rather than looking for a diagnosis.

I would never take this tone with my cousin. I love her dearly and only want to support her. I know she finds parenting him difficult as she often shares this with me. If I thought this was a concern it might open more avenues of support for her, not judgement. Poor parenting was a poor choice of words but to the point.

For the poster that asked, I do have a child, and whilst she is in no way perfect they are completely different children (very small age gap).

Children are completely different. DS & his cousin are totally unalike, both NT.

I was more comparing the involvement of the parents than putting myself in their position.