Private Family Law ADHD assessment or Ed Psy?

[mazzat85]

Hi,
Can anyone advise please… so as the post says I'm going through private family law proceedings.
I had tried to have an ADHD assessment done on my child but their dad keeps blocking it from going ahead.
I'm now at the point in wondering weather it would be better for me to seek an assessment through an Ed Psychologist who will do assessments for ADHD and say weather my child meets the criteria for a diagnosis of ADHD or not.
When I get to court I want to use the ADHD diagnosis or the Ed psy report to show that my ex has stopped me from being able to get our child help.
If I go with an Ed Psy they won't be able to diagnose ADHD but will be able to say weather my child meets the criteria for a diagnosis and say weather they would recommend an ADHD assessment happens etc.
Obviously court pages say that the judge needs to take into consideration when making a final order:
Child's physical, emotional and educational needs
And
Child's age, sex, background and any characteristics which the court considers necessary
If I was to get an Ed psy assessment/report of the report said child meets criteria for a diagnosis will the judge take that into consideration
Ie ' Ed psy has done assessment and said child meets criteria for a diagnosis of ADHD I have to take ADHD into consideration when making a final order'
Or will the judge just look at it as if the child has no SEND needs at all even if the report says child meets the criteria?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

@Soontobe60

What if your ex produces the records from CAMHS in court? The one that says they don’t believe your ds has ADHD? That’ll scupper your plans.

This. What's driving you to ouch for an assessment for something CAMHS have already determined isn't there?

Also, you cannot be stripped of your parental rights for seeking a medical assessment for your child, I suspect this runs a lot deeper though. I presume your ex is trying to get you to 'drop it' since CAMHS have already said your DS doesn't meet the criteria required for assessment.

Connors 3 is also completed by parents and school.
So surely all your ex will say when presented with a report saying Connors 3 suggest a problems “well she’s completed the questionnaire incorrectly/suggesting problems that are not there”.

@Siepie I've spoke to a solicitor about it and she said he's just threatening me but then his legal team are now saying they will have the judge strip me of them if I do anything without his permission.
I have disabilities and anxiety so I don't like to take chances

@whywhythough they haven't determined it's not there. They have just looked at the referral and closed it because we are in private proceedings. They cannot determine weather it's not there or is there without completing screening questionnaires (I've been told this by my child's DR) so CAHMs have just closed it by seeing we're in family court and looking at the behaviours child is showing.

Child has been seen by a behavioural specialist who has said child has traits of ADHD and told the school they needed to refer to CAHMs for an ADHD assessment. If behavioural therapist didn't think it was ADHD they wouldn't be telling school to refer for an ADHD assessment

I'm not sure what you hope to get out of this ? What difference would having the label currently give you ? Even if you'd got it your ex has 50/50 so presumably would refuse to medicate etc

They didn't refuse to go ahead with the assessment because you are going through court. That's ridiculous. I'm sorry OP but if CAMHS have looked at the referral and decided not to go ahead it will not be because of court. It will be be sue they have decided not to assess based on the information they have about your child, not your personal circumstances.

@LillyDeValley I've been accused of factitious illnesses. If Ed psych comes back confirming anxiety I'm fine with that (relieved in-fact as I don't want them to have ADHD) also if it does come back as anxiety last year I took out child to GP because I felt like they was suffering with anxiety and my GP referred to CAHMs my ex spoke to CAHMs saying our child doesn't have anxiety and it's all in my head and because I have anxiety I'm trying to paint our child as if they have anxiety (he would probably say I'm trying to paint our child as having ADHD because I have ADHD combined type if it wasn't something you was born with!) so of EP report comes back says anxiety then I've tried to get our child help and support for that and he's said our child doesn't have it thus having the anxiety referral closed down.

Cafcass have done their report, my ex works for the courts so knows exactly what to say to them where as I was just honest and said how it is (I have ADHD, autism, anxiety and dyslexia so not good with communicating unlike my child's dad) cafcass said my ex seems to have a better understanding of our child's needs as I have seeked help/support/referrals from GP for our child for anxiety and ADHD which he is saying our child doesn't have! Cafcass spoke to our child for 15 minutes via video call to ask some questions and because my child was able to answer the questions while playing/doing an activity of their choosing CAFCass have said they have no concerns about child's concentration (if my child was sat in a room with the cafcass worker and not able to do as they pleased (going between toys of their choosing and the cafcass officer was with them for longer than 15 mins asking these questions they would be seeing a totally different side or my child but because they see the side of child engaging whilst plying for 15 mins they've said no concerns.

Yeah I know school and parents do conners also but if EPs, schools and mine all scored high and it was only my exes that scored low then would the judge look at that as 3 people have scored high and only dad has scored low? So will judge take into consideration that child scored high for multiple people and the EP has recommended an ADHD assessment goes ahead in the near future or will the judge only take into consideration when making a final child arrangements order a confirmed diagnosis? (Obviously don't feel I'm going to be able to get an ADHD assessment done before the final hearing as it's been over a year of me asking if we can get an assessment done)

I'm hoping my ex may let an EP assessment go ahead as it's to do with our child's education and it's not for a diagnosis. I have asked child school where they're scoring academically and been told that my child's below academic ability for their age. When I've queried further where child is scoring I've been told by school they can't give a definitive answer as the progress/scoring system has changed every year over the last 3 so with an EP that is hold be investigated and the EP would be able to give a more definitive answer as to how far my child is behind children of their age.

I have representation for hearings and at the last hearing the barrister said to me I need to get an ADHD assessment done to prove I have been acting in my child's best interest when seeking referrals/support and that if that assessment happens before the final hearing is we would then provide a time line of the last year where my ex has stopped appointments/assessments going ahead until recently etc. but he is still stopping the assessment going ahead even though multiple people have raised concerns about child's lack of concentration (behavioural specialist/therapist, school - class teacher, emotional support teacher, family support worker, safeguarding teacher, senco, head teacher, SALT) and trying to get an ADHD assessment done before the final hearing isn't looking likely but if it was it would prove I was innocent and hadn't factitious illnesses on our child but he on the other hand had neglected our child's needs been stopping me from being able to access the help and support for them by having an assessment.

(Ex is taking me to court his Court application is for residency of our child claiming I'm abusing them emotionally and psychologically by thinking they have an additional need if I get EP assessment down and it comes back saying child has anxiety i will show the judge I've tried to get our child help for that but was stopped by my ex, if I am able to get adhd assessment done that will prove I've not abused our child by thinking they have an additional need as I was right to seek referrals to try get our child help and support for it (if they was diagnosed as having ADHD) but he has stopped me from being able to do that as well)

@notapizzaeater school have told me that if my child is diagnosed there's further help and support they can give them in school, such as therapy etc but they will not give behaviour therapy, a 1-1 to someone that isn't diagnosed with ADHD.

I'm not wanting to medicate just get my child the help and support in school that they could receive if diagnosed.

School are talking crap ! They should be supporting appropriately without a label ! Has he got an IEP? EHCP ?

@whywhythough they have said they will not assess child atm because behaviours could be anxiety because of the court case but once we come out of court after a period of watch and wait after the final hearing if behaviours are still the same as they are now (what has been put in current CAHMS referral) they will assess but not until we are out the family court system so if in 2 weeks we come out of the court system we then watch and wait for 12 weeks if behaviours still their they will assess for ADHD, if we come out of court in a year we then do a period of watch and wait for 12 weeks if behaviours still their then They will assess for ADHD... if we come out of court in 18 months we then do a period of watch and wait for 12 weeks if behaviours still there then they will assess for ADHD then. But they will not assess child while we are going through family court

@notapizzaeater they've been put on the SEN register but I've not been informed of an IEP/ILP. School have said they feel atm because child hasn't got a diagnosis that they can support my child without the need of applying for an EHCP. If child got a diagnosis then they would apply for an EHCP and it would be a lot easier as the LA could reject the EHCP because of no diagnosis but once diagnosed the LA can't ignore a mental health condition and that makes it easier to obtain an EHcP where they would be able to offer further support to my child such as therapy and 1:1

the LA could reject the EHCP because of no diagnosis

This would be illegal

once diagnosed… that makes it easier to obtain an EHcP

This isn’t true. You do not need a diagnosis to get an EHCP.

[once diagnosed] the school would be able to offer further support to my child such as therapy and 1:1

Again this is untrue - and goes against the SEN Code of Practice. A child does not need a diagnosis or an EHCP to receive additional support in school.

The more I hear about school, the more nonsense they are talking. Of course they can give you your child’s grades. Of course they know where s/he is performing in relation to the rest of the class.

If it were me, I would make a parental request for an EHCP. As part of the process your child will be seen by an EP and a thorough report will be written. Contact SENDIASS for advice on submitting an EHCP request. Make sure you include all documentation and four lengthy paragraphs which outline your child’s needs across the four areas in the Code of Practice.

I think your situation is far too complex for anything to offer any reasonable help. The accusation of factitious illness hasn't come form a suspicion that your child may have ADHD, there is more to this for sure. I think you are super focused on an ADHD assessment when that seems to be the tip of a very big iceberg. Have you got anyone helping and supporting you from a medical POV?

@whywhythough

They didn't refuse to go ahead with the assessment because you are going through court. That's ridiculous. I'm sorry OP but if CAMHS have looked at the referral and decided not to go ahead it will not be because of court. It will be be sue they have decided not to assess based on the information they have about your child, not your personal circumstances.

That's not actually true.

My GP referred to developmental paeds for ds. They said pass to camhs. Camhs said pass to peads. I contacted camhs and asked why as said I felt they were best for ds. I was asked to write myself why.

I sent an email 9pm on a Tuesday evening and had an appointment booked by 9.10am the following day.

Same here as Op. the services are passing the brick back and forth and making judgements on a child they're not assessed themselves.

At our initial assessment (called choices here) ds was put on the asd pathway.

I was treated like an overprotective mum (single parent and only child) up until that point.

I was further treated the same when I questioned further things.

Finally at 15 my ds was diagnosed with a genetic condition so rare only 1 in 1 mil people have it.

If the Connors questionnaire hasn't even been done and an observation of the child they cannot say it's anxiety or adhd and both often can go together anyway.

And the school and behavioural specialist have also recorded concerns which are being dismissed.

OP. Don't get an Ed pysch report.

Go instead for a breakdown of current position. Make it clear that right now you are unsure either way what it is your child is struggling with and therefore you cannot support. School have sought help from outside agencies and they've said he needs a proper assess,ent by psychiatrist to be able to support.

Don't get into tit for tat arguments. Just state facts of current state of play and say you and his school want to support him but need an order made to allow you both to do this. Make it clear it's both of you - every single time.

@itsgettingweird

Your example is nothing like refusing to assess a child because they are going through a family court.

@whywhythough I have been accused of emotionally and psychologically abusing my child by thinking they have an additional need. Multiple people have said my child has a need but they cannot say what that need is because they're no qualified to do so. SALT have told school they need to make any necessary referrals for attention and concentration difficulties, behavioural specialist/therapist has said child has traits of ADHD but they're not able to diagnose so have also told school they need to make a referral for my child's attention and concentration difficulties, class teacher, emotional support worker (who has said doesn't feel my child's issues are anxiety), family support worker who was a SENCO a few years ago, safeguarding teacher, head teacher and the SENDCO of my child's school have all said my child's behaviours all link more to ADHD than anxiety. Ive been told by the SENCO that when they have been looking at a child that has a confirmed ADHD diagnosis and then they look at my child my child is basically on par with the behaviours the diagnosed child has so it's not anxiety it will be ADHD but they cannot diagnose hence they referred to cahms

@itsgettingweird it's so stupid isn't it! If they would at least do a screening questionnaire they would see it's not anxiety and more ADHD! I have a diagnosis of ADHD and it is known the be genetic so think they should be assessing/screening in that after all there's a massive call for if children have been diagnosed adhd/asd then both parents should be screened to see what parent has gone under the radar for so long!

I wanted to provide a report of some sort to the judge (don't know weather the judge will take into consideration the EP report though) to show that I have been trying to fight for my little ones rights and get them help and support and I have been being stopped in a form of control by my ex. Without a report of any sort there's no evidence to show I haven't emotionally or psychologically abused our child but with a report that will show what I have done is tried to get my child the right help/support all this time while my child's father has been neglecting my child's needs by stopping me being able to get that help/support for them

@whywhythough no it's not like family court but it shows you that CAHMs cannot make a judgement in weather it's ADHD or anxiety without doing any screenings

[quote whywhythough]@itsgettingweird

Your example is nothing like refusing to assess a child because they are going through a family court. [/quote]
It s an example of how the refuse access based on judgements they make without assessing.

Mine was single parent and only child.

Turns out it was nothing to to with that.

Plus I had an easier time when I actually had the camhs appointment and the woman assessing realised my job meant training the clinical psychs for something! But it just again highlighted the assumption that's made by someone else writing a referral on your behalf.

No one knows what is going with this child but those who have the most to do with his day to day care - a mum, school and GP are concerned enough to want an assessment. They should be doing an assessment and if it turns out unwarranted then look into the parent requesting it. You do not allow a child to possibly suffer from a MH condition or a disability based on the word of a NRP who is a lone voice.

An EP can buy (and therefore administer) the Conners 3. It's Level B which is more or less any HCP or person under the HCPC.

www.pearsonclinical.co.uk/store/ukassessments/en/Store/Professional-Assessments/Behavior/Comprehensive/Conners-3rd-Edition/p/P100009070.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjN-SBhCkARIsACsrBz65dAeYau1aTCc480k1YXso2qtm9Rd_cKGrnNenJE881JZWEGc0KTQaAowNEALw_wcB

The school are talking rubbish. Support in school should be based on needs, not diagnosis, and a diagnosis isn’t necessary for an EHCP.

I’m not sure this is going to give you what you want.

Have you actually spoken to an EP to check they will do the Connors 3? Just because they can in theory doesn’t mean they will. Also, EPs at the have long waiting lists, so if you haven’t already been in contact with an EP and you may not get an EP assessment in the timeframe you need.

[quote KatieAlcock]An EP can buy (and therefore administer) the Conners 3. It's Level B which is more or less any HCP or person under the HCPC.

www.pearsonclinical.co.uk/store/ukassessments/en/Store/Professional-Assessments/Behavior/Comprehensive/Conners-3rd-Edition/p/P100009070.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjN-SBhCkARIsACsrBz65dAeYau1aTCc480k1YXso2qtm9Rd_cKGrnNenJE881JZWEGc0KTQaAowNEALw_wcB[/quote]
The Conners 3 is a diagnostic tool to support the DSM 5 diagnostic process. But EPs are not involved in the diagnosis of ADHD. Just because their qualification level means they can use a particular assessment, doesn’t actually mean that doing so is within their professional remit.

It s an example of how the refuse access based on judgements they make without assessing.

But you gave it in response to me saying it was not because of the family court. The other stuff is irrelevant. The reason they are not assessing is not the family court. I do think OP situation is much more complex than simply being passed about in your experience

Sometimes Legal proceedings do influence the care CAMHS provide or whether CAMHS seek the courts advice/permission first. Of course it is not straight forward and some DC will be seen, but some referrals are refused because of the proceedings. Here are 2 examples of areas where legal proceedings do sometimes influence whether a referral is accepted - one and two.

Is this the same case that I have commented on before (find this forum impossible for tracking threads), where you say that CAMHS wont do the assessment because your OH didnt do a parenting course?