To think that everyone who told those with preschool children in 2020/21 to get a puddlesuit and that lockdown wasn’t that bad needs to read this

[manysummersago]

BBC link

Reading the above has made me feel so angry and sad at what was done to the babies and toddlers of this country, and I can’t believe that we let it happen, quite honestly.

I am not getting my stats from anywhere, it is very sadly our personal experience over the lockdown with more one than one child, and believe me at close quarters the fall out when a child dies in this way is absolutely horrendous, and ripples out across the whole community.

But thanks for your empathy & compassion porcupine What a thoroughly revolting post.

@swayingpalmtrees

The schools did not close; teachers were not furloughed. They spent lockdown either caring for key worker children in school or delivering teaching materials remotely. They also completely adapted their pedagogy to allow for live lessons and in school examination - no questions asked; it was what was necessary.

It's attitudes like yours that allow the government to justify continued spending cuts to education and related services; it's that which impacts children and young people.

You are coming across as extremely aggressive on this thread, @Swayingpalmtrees.
@Porcupineintherough asked a perfectly valid question. How about answering it, rather than throwing insults, such as "revolting."

@Porcupineintherough the development of humans depends on the establishment of neurological pathways at various ages, and that’s why it’s crucial that children have good experiences, particularly in the early years. It’s not a case if them being damaged by covid: they’re formed by experiences, nurture, care.

WouldBeGood is making important points. Damage has been done which cannot now be undone. It was allowed to happen because we have forgotten our duty to children as a society. We must never do anything like this ever again.

The fact of the matter is that nobody can ever say for sure if it was worth it or not because we didn't take the path of no lockdowns. If we had, I have no doubt those of us who lost loved ones or were struggling with Long Covid would be on here being as militant as the Us4Them lot, only the other way around. We'll never know how many lives lockdown saved, and we'll never agree on an estimate. Arguing about it now is pointless. All we can do is try to mitigate the impact. And be grateful if you didn't lose anyone, or have your life changed by Long Covid.

So… let me get this straight.
Teachers were lazy, swigging gin in their gardens and getting their militant unions to it pressure on government to keep the schools closed because we all hate children.
We don’t care about babies and toddlers who have missed out on vital developmental milestones due to lockdown.
Then we point out about:

• What we actually had to do during lockdown
• that there may be other forces at play
• that children are catching up

We get told IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU you lazy self important feckers. Ridiculous.

The other fact of the matter is that it is bang out of order to blame the teaching profession (whichever sector/age band) for the steps taken by world governments in response to an unprecedented global pandemic.

I don’t think that this is a thread about teachers though. It’s supposed to be about the harms done to children by the Covid restrictions.

It would be nice to see some unity on concern for children, not a debate on teachers.

@JimmyGrimble. I don't know why people keep banging on about teachers on this thread. Teachers have very little to do with preschool kids. So in this case, IT REALLY ISN'T ABOUT THE TEACHERS. Most nurseries were very keen to get back into operation as soon as they legally could, because the economic reality was that they couldn't charge parents if they weren't open.

@RaleighDurham oh don't get me wrong, I completely agree, and I am vehemently anti-teacher bashing. But it's just so daft people hand-wringing about how lockdown was a terrible thing when we really have no idea what the alternative would have looked like (other than "not good"). Personally, as someone who was directly impacted by the already overstretched health system (my husband died from an undiagnosed heart condition because he couldn't get to see a GP, only have phone consultations, and there were no ambulances for 20 minutes when he had his cardiac arrest) I shudder to think how many more would have died if we'd allowed Covid to "rip through" the population and completely decimated the health service. For me, the sacrifices made and the negative impact on our children - including my own - were hard, and regrettable, but ultimately worth it because it saved lives. But we'll never know for sure, and the two sides of the argument will never agree, so what's the point of even talking about it? Surely all we can do now is work together to find the best way forward - which, imo, at this point is to support teachers and properly fund our education sector.

I get that you want someone to blame for what kids missed out on, @Swayingpalmtrees, but classroom teachers did not choose whether schools were open or not, or have any control over how the senior leaders of their schools tackled online learning, provision for keyworkers' children or anything else to do with covid measures.

Blaming them for using any increased leisure time which some of them might have had (before full-on distance learning was up and running, or if their school did not provide full-on live lessons etc) is completely unreasonable. What were they supposed to do - sit around looking miserable?

At the end of the day, you might be furious that some teachers were scared and didn't want schools to re-open, and it may have pissed you off that some posted pictures of themselves enjoying their leisure time during lockdown, but those things made sod all difference to what children did or didn't miss out on, because teachers didn't have the power to decide what happened.

And, as has been pointed out, most of them were delivering online teaching (many while trying to look after their own children, as were lots of other workers).

Fwiw I didn't do a stroke of work during lockdowns. Not one bit. I had a lovely tine. But I also didn't get paid at all, because I am a supply teacher.

*time

We did see what happened without lockdowns, as we can look at other countries who kept things much more normal and had similar, or better, outcomes.

What these lockdowns have done to children is criminal, and it needs to be acknowledged so tgst it never ever happens again.

Estelle - the damage was caused by the pandemic. You will have noticed that most countries closed nurseries, not just us, there was a reason! It was because of the virus that we had to close schools. Saying we can’t ever let it happen again is pointless. We might not have a choice! When the next novel virus breaks out (and it will happen) it may be more deadly or transmissible - the Black Death killed between a half and a third of the population- would you still be arguing for nurseries to stay open? The Spanish flu disproportionately killed young people - would you still want schools open?

One or two posters have made it (partly) about teachers. You can't expect teachers to duly sit back and read vile insinuations about them:
"I will not forgive or forget, no parent will."
"You are one of them! I refuse to speak to you."
"We don't need militant teachers that disregard children at the first opportunity thanks all the same."
"We see you, we are paying attention."
I mean, WTAF??!!!!

And of course there is unity about care of children from those educators - who spend their entire working lives trying to make good any damage done in recent years, from funding cuts as well as Covid measures.

Pointed it out at the time and was called a COVID minimiser or granny killer. The elderly and everyone in a house with someone vulnerable should have been in mandatory isolation the rest of us should have been getting on with it. Sweden is the only country who can be proud of the way they protected their kids education

@Fairislefandango

I get that you want someone to blame for what kids missed out on, *@Swayingpalmtrees*, but classroom teachers did not choose whether schools were open or not, or have any control over how the senior leaders of their schools tackled online learning, provision for keyworkers' children or anything else to do with covid measures.

Blaming them for using any increased leisure time which some of them might have had (before full-on distance learning was up and running, or if their school did not provide full-on live lessons etc) is completely unreasonable. What were they supposed to do - sit around looking miserable?

At the end of the day, you might be furious that some teachers were scared and didn't want schools to re-open, and it may have pissed you off that some posted pictures of themselves enjoying their leisure time during lockdown, but those things made sod all difference to what children did or didn't miss out on, because teachers didn't have the power to decide what happened.

And, as has been pointed out, most of them were delivering online teaching (many while trying to look after their own children, as were lots of other workers).

THIS!!!!

Wouldbegood- which countries? I’d be interested to see what they did and the outcomes.

@Sittininafield there’s a recent paper comparing excess deaths vis a vis mitigations in different countries which has been published in The Lancet. It’s really interesting. The gist of it is that no mitigations make any significant difference to excess deaths. I had the link somewhere so will post it if I can find it.

I remember in the winter lockdown that 2 people from different households could mix outside. Under 5's weren't included in this. So anyone old enough could go for a walk with a friend. Under 5s could meet up with a friend with their parents. But kids over 5 who weren't old enough to meet independently with a friend were the only ones not allowed to mix. Absolutely ridiculous and these kind of things were allowed to be law!!!

Ok, I’m scared to post the link in case it goes to my Twitter 😃, but this is the thread

@RaleighDurham

One or two posters have made it (partly) about teachers. You can't expect teachers to duly sit back and read vile insinuations about them: "I will not forgive or forget, no parent will." "You are one of them! I refuse to speak to you." "We don't need militant teachers that disregard children at the first opportunity thanks all the same." "We see you, we are paying attention." I mean, WTAF??!!!!

And of course there is unity about care of children from those educators - who spend their entire working lives trying to make good any damage done in recent years, from funding cuts as well as Covid measures.

Well, quite a lot of people have had mud slung at them on this thread. The first target, for those who cba to read the whole thread, were wfh parents who weren't constantly pausing their Zoom meetings to read the Gruffalo or sing Five Little Men in a Flying Saucer to their kids or go for a jolly walk in the woods. They were told they'd failed as parents and let their kids down.

Personally, I think the only teachers deserving of vitriol of any sort are the ones who hounded and judged working parents who were unable properly to support their children's online learning from home and set ridiculous rules like no other children allowed in the room during online lessons. Totally tone deaf when you have urban families living in crowded 2-bed flats.

Perhaps parents and teachers both had unreasonable expectations of each other in some cases.

"Personally, I think the only teachers deserving of vitriol of any sort..."

No. No one is "deserving" of vitriol, full-stop. Least of all people who were also under huge amounts of stress (as well as other parents - remember most teachers are also parents and had small children at home with them too) having been thrown into a terrible situation learning a completely new skillset in the flash of an eye, being judged by the whole world and without the tech back up required to facilitate effective teaching.
Yes, many people were in a similar boat but why single teachers out as deserving of vitriol? There was actual a real issue at the time of lessons being recorded and ridiculed (and worse) online, plus the issue of other people's presence in the room disrupting online lessons for everyone else on the Zoom. Not as simple as you're suggesting, and CERTAINLY not "deserving of vitriol."