My toddler urgently needs dental care. I've been quoted 6k. Is this normal? London

[punjama]

Due to what we believe is digestive bacterial infection which we can't specifically diagnose (loads of inconclusive tests and white poo and tongue) our 21m toddler has loads of cavities on 8 teeth with some going into the verge of decay (she has a very healthy diet with no sweets and brush 3x a day). We've been told If she wants to keep her teeth it's unlikely we'd be able to wait 1 year for NHS. One private dental clinic we went to gave us a quote of 6k including anaesthesia in hospital. Said our BuPa would cover hospital and anaesthesia but around 50-60% of cost out of pocket. Another clinic said they'd do it via sedation and it would cost around 2.2k. is this standard? Were somewhat fortunate to be able to pay this because we deny ourselves (ie no car no home ownership no holidays etc) everything but how do others deal with it? Just wait for NHS? Were afraid that she would lose her teeth and will be toothless as a kid and get bullied....

Assume you realise that many milk substitutes are sweet too?

You can do it through your dentist but be aware that it is not really in a private dentist's interest to refer to NHS. It is more typical to do the opposite. Has she been seen by a paediatric dentist , that may be a better route.

@KTCluck

This is the second thread I’ve read this afternoon about tooth decay in toddlers, and within the first few posts breastfeeding has been brought up as being the problem. It’s almost as if someone is out to put people off breastfeeding . Assuming the post is genuine and not started in order to push an anti-breastfeeding agenda, which I’m sure isn’t the case, I don’t think OP was asking what we thought the cause was, but for suggestions in how to deal with it.

OP do you have an NHS dental hospital near you?there is one near me and I know of a few people who have gone there when having trouble getting a dental appointment. I’m not sure exactly how it works and it will vary between trusts anyway, but if there is one near you I’d think a toddler with such bad cavities would be the type of patient they’d see. Might be worth seeing if you can get a referral or self-refer.

yes its really frustrating. every GP / dentist etc just says "stop breast feeding it will solve all your problems!".

my wife is very pro breast feeding and will not stop it. its worked for everyone back home so no reason it cant work here. she doesnt mind doing it. it does seem to be a very divisive issue!

i live near crystal palace. is there anything i need to google specifically? searching NHS dental hospital just brings up loads of local clinics. is that what you mean? or do you mean like a unit within Croydon Hospital or Kingshospital (the closest 2 to us).

I've just been reading stuff online and liver issues can cause oral issues so its something that should be followed up. Has the GP given any indications of what treatment they will look into?

It sounds very much like she has coeliac disease (perhaps your wife too). You’re right that really the only treatment is going gluten free but she should be put under consultant care to check related issues like bone development. Personally I would try to get a referral via GP to a gastroenterologist.

@LIZS

Assume you realise that many milk substitutes are sweet too?

yes but we only have it with porridge in morning maybe 3-4 times a week and its not loads at all...maybe 3-4 adult spoonfulls at best so it wont even be the full 2.5g per 100ml (super koko dairy free). that is the only time she has it and as i said we brush 3 times and drink water often.

and yes shes been to pediatric dentists but they were all private. we will try look for a NHS specific one

If she's having digestive issues have they tested for reflux?

The acid can cause horrid problems with teeth.

Bitter voice of experience!

And if she has liver issues it could be very acidic as related to bile. I'm no medical expert but I know there's links somehow and somewhere!

@dementedpixie

I've just been reading stuff online and liver issues can cause oral issues so its something that should be followed up. Has the GP given any indications of what treatment they will look into?

yep the test results that showed this was fairly recent and we will discuss this with the GP - we havent been in a few months due to lock down (i have asthma so the whole family has been in total lock down really). my wife has read the same and thats her belief - liver issues are causing oral issues which are causing the plaque and cavaties. however we are afraid that the GP visit will be again useless as they have always been - they just tell us to stop worrying.

I was going to come on and mention a friend who had the same issue and the advice she had was to stop BF at least at night on demand but I see from your last post that this is what the doctors and dentists have advised you and your wife to do and you have ignored. So you don't want to take the NHS advice but expect your child to be operated on ASAP. I have every sympathy for your child but you and for wife not so much. You toddlers teeth are literally decaying and you won't follow medical advice!

And for people saying it's anti BF that is BS it is a fact that in some (not all) cases it can cause tooth decay, ask a qualified dentist. I think the on demand night time feeding is the main issue.

There are Dental Schools in London (one may well be within Kings or St George's). You do seem unwilling to consider that this is extreme or potentially diet related though. Which teeth are affected? Does she thumbsuck or use a dummy/pacifier?

• yes its really frustrating. every GP / dentist etc just says "stop breast feeding it will solve all your problems!".

my wife is very pro breast feeding and will not stop it. its worked for everyone back home so no reason it cant work here. she doesnt mind doing it. it does seem to be a very divisive issue*

For all the people giving advice have you actually read that the OP has been given and ignored medical advice.

@itsgettingweird

If she's having digestive issues have they tested for reflux?

The acid can cause horrid problems with teeth.

Bitter voice of experience!

And if she has liver issues it could be very acidic as related to bile. I'm no medical expert but I know there's links somehow and somewhere!

yes! she had silent reflux but my wife tells me that it has now passed. but she didnt really have any teeth when she had this. maybe 1-2.

@icansmellburningleaves

Do not allow your dentist to give your child a general anaesthetic to remove teeth. It’s extremely dangerous. They are not equipped for emergencies if your child becomes unwell. Don’t naively think this won’t happen.

It's also banned in the UK and has been for decades...

Liver problems also linked to low vitamin D and white poo
I think breastfeeding is a red herring tbh

yes its really frustrating. every GP / dentist etc just says "stop breast feeding it will solve all your problems!". That is frustrating. I never had a GP or dentist suggesting I stopped when feeding DD, it’s generally promoted.

I’m in Newcastle and it’s a large specialist dental hospital adjoining the main hospital. I’m not sure if that is unusual or if other areas have them.

@LIZS

There are Dental Schools in London (one may well be within Kings or St George's). You do seem unwilling to consider that this is extreme or potentially diet related though. Which teeth are affected? Does she thumbsuck or use a dummy/pacifier?

never used dummy or pacifiers or thumbsucks.

its mostly front teeth at the top near gums with a bit on the side teeth.

but what about the diet could stop and prevent these cavaties? our diet is normal except for no sugars, no added sugars, no dairy and no gluten.

I’ve just had a google and there’s a royal London dental hospital, and Barts and the London. Try googling without using the location services so you don’t get all the nearest dentists showing up.

@KTCluck

yes its really frustrating. every GP / dentist etc just says "stop breast feeding it will solve all your problems!". That is frustrating. I never had a GP or dentist suggesting I stopped when feeding DD, it’s generally promoted.

I’m in Newcastle and it’s a large specialist dental hospital adjoining the main hospital. I’m not sure if that is unusual or if other areas have them.

Yes so maybe there is a reason why they are all suggesting it to the OP and maybe just maybe the medical professionals are right!

If her calcium levels are too high as you mentioned they might be? Then that definitely needs investigated with a referral to hospital as it can cause lots of digestive issue and weakening of bones and I think teeth.
Ds had high calcium when he was born but in his case it resolved itself by the time he was 8 months old but drs took it very seriously

How much fruit does she eat?
Is it fresh or dried?
Does she brush 20 minutes after food especially dried fruit (like raisins)?
Again, why haven’t you been using fluoride toothpastes?

And for people saying it's anti BF that is BS it is a fact that in some (not all) cases it can cause tooth decay, ask a qualified dentist. I think the on demand night time feeding is the main issue.

I’m not saying it is BS that BF may contribute to tooth decay in some cases (as can overnight bottle feeding in some cases). I’m saying it seems strange that one of the first posts on a thread asking about advice on where to go next regarding treatment, with no question about what the cause could be, immediately asked ‘Is the child being breastfed’. Just like on the other thread I had just been reading.

to all just wanted to clear something up - we have never bottlefed and this is not regarding GA for tooth removal. GA for tooth treatment as the dentist doesnt believe the toddler would be able to undergo treatment without GA (attention span, fear etc).

If it is near the gumline it sounds like you are not brushing along there well enough. Most toddler decay is on the surface or between. Diet doesn't prevent cavities as such but a sugary one will start them. Did your wife have any antibiotics during pregnancy?

@KTCluck

And for people saying it's anti BF that is BS it is a fact that in some (not all) cases it can cause tooth decay, ask a qualified dentist. I think the on demand night time feeding is the main issue.

I’m not saying it is BS that BF may contribute to tooth decay in some cases (as can overnight bottle feeding in some cases). I’m saying it seems strange that one of the first posts on a thread asking about advice on where to go next regarding treatment, with no question about what the cause could be, immediately asked ‘Is the child being breastfed’. Just like on the other thread I had just been reading.

I didn't notice but I know my friend had the same issue with her DD and they did blood test etc to check for issues and the conclusion was she should reduce BF especially at night by expressing or some other method (they were very supportive in her case it wasn't like they just said totally stop BF today). I'm just baffled that the OP has admitted that is the advice they have been given but because it relates to BF people are just ignoring it where usually the message would be follow medical advice! I'm certainly not anti-BF as I did it myself but if my kids teeth were decaying I would try whatever could help.

@FelicityPike

How much fruit does she eat? Is it fresh or dried? Does she brush 20 minutes after food especially dried fruit (like raisins)? Again, why haven’t you been using fluoride toothpastes?

we give her a plate of blueberries, raspberries, strawberries and things like a cut up apple / pear and banana each day. its hard to say how much she eats because its different each day and depending if she likes that particular batch but at most she will eat maybe 1/3 of an apple 1/3 of a peach, 1/3 banana and a handful of various berries tops.

in morning we brush before food (e.g. 7am brush, 730am breakfast) then we brush again after lunch before nap (within 30mins most times) and in evenings we brush before bed after bath (usually maybe 1h after food). although we always drink down with water.

and again - we have no issue with fluoride tooth paste. we use it now and have for a few months but just werent under impression it was necessary in begining. my comment was regarding fluoride dentist treatment which again we have had but wife was wary of having it multiple times constantly.