My toddler urgently needs dental care. I've been quoted 6k. Is this normal? London

[punjama]

Due to what we believe is digestive bacterial infection which we can't specifically diagnose (loads of inconclusive tests and white poo and tongue) our 21m toddler has loads of cavities on 8 teeth with some going into the verge of decay (she has a very healthy diet with no sweets and brush 3x a day). We've been told If she wants to keep her teeth it's unlikely we'd be able to wait 1 year for NHS. One private dental clinic we went to gave us a quote of 6k including anaesthesia in hospital. Said our BuPa would cover hospital and anaesthesia but around 50-60% of cost out of pocket. Another clinic said they'd do it via sedation and it would cost around 2.2k. is this standard? Were somewhat fortunate to be able to pay this because we deny ourselves (ie no car no home ownership no holidays etc) everything but how do others deal with it? Just wait for NHS? Were afraid that she would lose her teeth and will be toothless as a kid and get bullied....

Was your baby weaned with fruit juice or Fruit purée? I know you say she doenst drink juice in a bottle but I ask because it’s such a common weaning food in Russia.

Does baby have kasha made with buckwheat ?

I guess you know that rye bread isn’t gluten free?

If you child was coeliac and you are eliminating all gluten then your DD should be symptom free. And she’s not, so logically that suggests something else.

As well as or in addition, of course.

Do not allow your dentist to give your child a general anaesthetic to remove teeth. It’s extremely dangerous. They are not equipped for emergencies if your child becomes unwell. Don’t naively think this won’t happen.

Can I also ask

Did your wife smoke when she was pregnant ?

Was baby premature or low birth weight ?

Did mum or baby have any health problems like chicken pox or measles?

Has your baby actually seen a dentist since she was born ? What about the dentist that you and your wife are registered with ? I’m trying to understand why it has got so bad without anyone seeing her.

This is the second thread I’ve read this afternoon about tooth decay in toddlers, and within the first few posts breastfeeding has been brought up as being the problem. It’s almost as if someone is out to put people off breastfeeding . Assuming the post is genuine and not started in order to push an anti-breastfeeding agenda, which I’m sure isn’t the case, I don’t think OP was asking what we thought the cause was, but for suggestions in how to deal with it.

OP do you have an NHS dental hospital near you?there is one near me and I know of a few people who have gone there when having trouble getting a dental appointment. I’m not sure exactly how it works and it will vary between trusts anyway, but if there is one near you I’d think a toddler with such bad cavities would be the type of patient they’d see. Might be worth seeing if you can get a referral or self-refer.

@Waitingforboristoletusfree

You’ve only just started using tooth paste with fluoride in ? You should always use toothpaste with fluoride in!

we werent under impression that it should have been used from the very start. lesson learned but no point crying over spilt milk at this point :-( we are using it now.

Can I ask, does your child have any other developmental or medical issues?

@dementedpixie

why doesn't she eat gluten? She would need to have a couple of portions of gluten foods each day for 6 weeks for the test to be taken.

What have you been feeding your child?

but at the end of the day even if we take the test and its determined to be coeliac as far as we know theres no treatment other than not eating gluten which is what we do already.

again our diet is standard and normal and varied. there are plenty of gluten alternatives which we all buy - gluten free oats, gluten free pasta, gluten free bread etc.

for breakfast she mostly has porridge, healthy cereal, pancakes, eggs or something like that. lunch and dinner is usually a mix of chicken / fish / beef or turkey with sides like rice, pasta, potatoes, buckwheat and a mix of all the vegetables.

fruit is usually peaches, pears, bananas, apples and various berries.

Are you able to answer any of the other questions asked @punjama?

is there a reason you are avoiding gluten though?

A child that age
If it was truly an emergency
You would absolutely be seen far quicker under the NHS than a year

@dementedpixie

Are you able to answer any of the other questions asked *@punjama*?

yes im not avoiding anything apologies just there are a lot of posts and im trying to answer them one by one and also conferring with the wife to make sure im getting correct answers! plus it doesnt seem there is a multi quote answer available here? is that right? i hate to be spamming up the place!!

to answer you - we have no issues with fluoride paste just werent under impression that it was necessary. as i said we now use it and will use it with future children.

what i meant by my comment was that fluoride treatment to harden teeth rather than tooth paste.

I don't really understand the gluten avoidance?

It is unusual in such as young child though . If the decay is that bad then it is likely to affect gums also. I remember a friend being mortified her young child needed an early filling in spite of a healthy vegetarian diet and tooth brushing regime - turned out dried fruit was the culprit. Breastmilk contains sugars which can attack tooth enamel. Does your dd get vitamin supplements such as vitamin d as otherwise her bones and growth may be affected by such reliance on bm beyond 1 too.

You may find nhs prefers to extract first teeth rather than fill. As expats are you entitled to free dental care in UK as it seems your advice so far has been private and yes that will cost a lot.

And no dairy either. Does she have a good source of calcium?

@PAND0RA

Was your baby weaned with fruit juice or Fruit purée? I know you say she doenst drink juice in a bottle but I ask because it’s such a common weaning food in Russia.

Does baby have kasha made with buckwheat ?

I guess you know that rye bread isn’t gluten free?

If you child was coeliac and you are eliminating all gluten then your DD should be symptom free. And she’s not, so logically that suggests something else.

As well as or in addition, of course.

we didnt use fruit juice or fruit puree to ween but she does sometimes have Ellas kitchen banana puree - maybe a pack every day or so.

yes we have buckwheat (which is gluten free) but we dont have any rye bread because its not gluten free.

my wife diligently checks all ingredients and even avoids gluten herself just in case.

I suppose breastmilk gives that. Why do you avoid other dairy though?

were you told to avoid gluten though? By who?

@dementedpixie

is there a reason you are avoiding gluten though?

my wife had gluten intolerance as a child and our toddler was also constantly troubled and had eg blood in her poo, constant aches when she was 5 months amongst other issues and it was recommended by our paediatrician to take this approach

Also be aware you should take them to the dentist from when they get their first tooth. My DD went at 6 months old to my DP's NHS dentist. If you live in London or another large city be prepared to go to a different area to see an NHS dentist.

@dementedpixie

And no dairy either. Does she have a good source of calcium?

we take multivitamins and calcium isnt just from dairy products though. if anything our latest test results showed she had too much calcium levels. the one thing that was off was a lack of vitamin D i believe.

also - my wife also had dairy intolerance in addition to gluten intolerance.

weve recently done another intolerance test and are waiting for results to see if weve missed anything.

when we stopped giving dairty to daughter she started feeling better but when we tried to do a ladder to reintroduce it she began feeling worse so we continue not to use it. instead of milk we use e.g. Super koko dairy free milk etc.

I asked about any other concerns, medically or developmentally, as there can be conditions linked with very severe dental problems....are there any other concerns?

@PAND0RA

Can I also ask

Did your wife smoke when she was pregnant ?

Was baby premature or low birth weight ?

Did mum or baby have any health problems like chicken pox or measles?

Has your baby actually seen a dentist since she was born ? What about the dentist that you and your wife are registered with ? I’m trying to understand why it has got so bad without anyone seeing her.

no smoking ever not premature but she is quite small. wavering on the 25% quarterile since birth mum had dairy and gluten intolerance when she was a kid.

weve been to dentists several times but again were told that the wait would be long and the plan was to travel to wifes country of origin for treatment rather than wait for NHS. now we dont know when / if we can do that and thought wed do it in UK as we were told its roughly ~2k by friends but that was actually for a 5 year old not a tiny toddler like us :(

Go to your gp as teeth are only part of the problem - you need urgent advice on diet etc and more important lo is there an underlying health problem as to why she isn't eating, gp may be able to do dental referral too. 5 months for a non urgent dental op seems about right for nhs.

@Bupkis

I asked about any other concerns, medically or developmentally, as there can be conditions linked with very severe dental problems....are there any other concerns?

shes a bit small in size but within boundaries for GP / health visitor /paediatrician etc to tell us not to be concerned.

otherwise shes completely fine in terms of development for everything that i can think of.

@okiedokieme

Go to your gp as teeth are only part of the problem - you need urgent advice on diet etc and more important lo is there an underlying health problem as to why she isn't eating, gp may be able to do dental referral too. 5 months for a non urgent dental op seems about right for nhs.

weve gone many times! its extremely frustrating. they just say "if shes happy its okay!" they havent been able to determine at all whats causing the white poo, the white tongue etc.

would we need GP to do dental referal or can we get it through our dentist too? sorry im not too clued up as to how all this works because ive barely ever used the NHS during my life...