Children, smartphones and addictiveness: Woman's Hour want to know what you think

[RowanMumsnet]

Morning all

Justine (our Supreme Leader) has been invited on to Woman's Hour tomorrow morning to discuss the issue of children, smartphones and addictiveness.

The discussion has been prompted by this news story, in which investors in Apple stock have called on the company to 'consider the impact excessive use of smartphones had on the mental health of young people', and are asking Apple to develop software - a 'digital lock' - that limits how long children can use its phones.

According to the BBC:

"In their letter, the two investors pointed to numerous studies which suggest excessive phone use can disrupt lessons, harm students' ability to concentrate on school work and deprive them of sleep. The document also mentioned the impact that "heavy use" of social media can have on self-esteem and its possible influence on childhood depression."

"According to a Reuters report, half of US teenagers believe they are addicted to their mobile phones and feel the need to respond immediately to messages."

"The makers of such "powerful products" also needed to help parents ensure phones are being used optimally. They called on Apple to improve its current parental control systems which, they said, were a "binary, all or nothing approach"."

So - we'd love to hear what you think about this. Is mobile, web-enabled tech addictive or problematic in terms of its claims on children's attention? Is this unique to phones or does it apply to other devices? How do you manage your children's access to smartphones and tablets, and to social media apps and games? Do you think these issues affect their wellbeing? Would limiting the amount of time they can spend on their phones help? Would you like their devices to have this capability? (Would you like it on your own devices?) Is this a problem unique to or particularly damaging for children?

So many questions - do let us know what you think and how you manage this issue within your own families.

And don't forget to tune in to Woman's Hour tomorrow (Wednesday Jan 9) to hear the item.

Thanks
MNHQ

My son is four and has never had a tablet, phone or any handheld device, and limited TV time. And that will be the way it is for as long as I can get away with it.
The research into screen time is pretty frightening, especially the correlation in the rise of the numbers in tvs in the home to the rise in autism.

I can’t even regulate my own use; god help my kids when they are old enough to want phones! It’s a terrifying thought.

Smartphones and tablets are addictive, you have only got to try and prise one away from a child to see the backlash. Just why they are so addictive is less obvious....

I have a teenager and a pre teen and I have to limit screen time and they are not allowed any use of phones and tablets are supper. It is the only way I can get to focus on anything else. We have had to have rules about use at dinner (never allowed) and when friends are here etc. We also take them away for bad behaviour - and I do see an immediate change in personality.

We also do lots of things outside without phones and sports.

I don't think anyone should be allowed to use them under the age of eighteen. I have come to the conclusion that they are more toxic than alcohol and other substances. If I were the government I would be introducing a law to ban all children from devices with the exception of pay as you go phones (no internet) and laptops for work (no internet) and children must be supervised when using the internet.

A child should then need to pass a test of internet and safe guarding, behaviour expectations on public forums etc before leaving school and then they may use tablets and phones etc.

We have all tried the liberal let them learn as they go, and hey, guess what it does not work!!!! Our children are totally unprotected and left to deal with the fallout.
We have an epidemic of mental health issues, addictions to porn etc at what point do we step in and stay stop?

Grey Morning
"I'd like a lock for me, forget the kids!"

I installed an app called OffTime a few days ago on both my phone and tablet. It has helped. I set it to lock me out at 11.30pm each day. It also flashes up reminders every 10 minutes telling me how long I have been using the device.

I struggle with my own phone use and my mobile is like a comfort blanket. I find my phone highly addictive.

Sometimes I worry that my Son's memories of me will be of me looking at a screen rather than responding to him.

My DS is 4 and he does not use a tablet or mobile phone at all. I am trying to keep him away from them for as long as possible.

My Daughter (11) uses my iPad and she also has an iPhone, she is autistic so mainly uses them for games like minecraft or YouTube. She is on them more then I would like her to but being autistic she kind of needs it as a way of calming down as she also has Anxiety and SPD. I don't know if it affects her sleep or concentration as she has always struggled to switch off and has bad concentration anyway! Taking it away would cause more harm long term, but I do try to keep her to a routine and I have set up parent controls on both devices, she isn't online (not safe enough to be as she can be easily led) and she hates face book or social media.

As well as a no phones rule at bedtime, we’ve introduced a router ban from 6-8pm on weeknights term time. Children are 14 & 11.

I can now, from 6-8pm talk properly to my children

They don’t rush supper

They do their homework

They do their music practice without nagging

They even shower!

It’s brilliant. Should’ve done it years ago!

My children are still in primary school so don't have phones themselves but at school they get assigned reading and maths to do at home through an app they can use on my computer. I hate it. I think they are too young to be using addictive technologies. It's not mandatory so they are only allowed to use it sparingly.

I don't let them use my phone and I don't like them looking over my shoulder whilst I search for something, and I try not to use my phone or computer too much when they are around.

I do know their father and his partner use their phones to keep them quiet so the adults can talk uninterrupted. It's depressing to me.

Mine are 14, 11 and 6. We love tech. Youngest has just had her eldest brothers old smart phone for Christmas. Not as a phone but it's a small WiFi enabled device that was going spare and cheaper than a tablet or music player (well free except for the new 99p case).

I have few firm rules about useage but everyone has outside fresh air time year round what ever the weather, everyone has a small number of chores, we have times that we expect homework to be done by, we have family meal times for breakfast and most evenings, we have various family activities like swimming we enjoy together. If these things aren't done without fuss then we discuss access to things they like to do like taking gadgets away. Power leads are in the lounge and so all mobile tech stuff comes down at least 30 mins before lights out and is powered off to stop annoying pings and rings.

I ask that the children research and discuss with us any app or game that they want to install. We talk about things when they go a bit wrong like being upset by a comment made or posting a comment that could be interpreted in different ways. We also talk about repeating comments already made as I consider that tipping into cyber bullying and jumping on the bandwagon. I love the don't post anything you wouldn't say/ show to granny as a reality check that when you post it goes out into the big wide world.

The children use their devices openly with us, I'm a friend on the middle ones tentative social media exploration.

I've been to a couple of online safety talks and one thing that does concerns me is how and when people unwind heavy restrictions. The internet is here, i don't suppose its going anywhere. Rather like not learning to cross the road on a motorway gentle exposure and on going education has got to be the way forwards.

I think education about the wonders of the internet from a young age would benefit society and would love to see more active positive use in primary schools.

Many DC think the internet is YouTube and social media not the amazing educational resource it is. If they could be shown just how much more there is they may not sit hitting refresh, refresh, refresh for media likes and get lost exploring what ever fascinating area of research takes their fancy.

There comes a point when parental responsibility needs to kick in I don't see it's all down to the manufacturers of phones, puts the price up for all.

Maybe if the demand exists, the sim /phone service suppliers could offer a parent controlled sim which they could block numbers from a parent number, restrict data and site access etc as part of a phone contract and use device management on home wifi router to restrict wifi use at home.

My 3 are 9, 11 and 13. The older two are autistic. They all love their tech, ds 13 spends all his free time playing online Minecraft based games and is amazing on them but he has no interest in social media, actually does not want a smart phone (he has a very basic phone and he only calls me or dh)and only rarely uses his tablet. He has a DS which he plays cooperative Pokemon games with his youngest sister. I have no real worries about him using the PC, his main issue is being banned from servers occasionally because he is too good and gets accused of cheating. He doesn't. Middle dd is more of a concern on line she spends a lot of her time chatting on Roblox and doing collaborative projects on scratch. She gets obsessive about things and needs supervision but she only chats on PC in living room, her tablet is used for watching you tube and Netflix. She is not having a smart phone until she is older but she would love one. Youngest daughter doesn't have a smart phone but she has a tablet and uses pc. She is very respectful of our rules about not sharing info of a personal nature on line and polices her big sister. She will happily narc on big sis if she spots an inappropriate interaction.

I am keeping up to date with what my dc do online as I am aware that autistic children can be vulnerable and naive. I make sure they know the rules and I talk to them about friends, and how you do not really know who someone is if you only 'talk' online etc.etc.

I am liberal about the time they spend on screens but we are clear about when screens are not welcome.

No, it's not just phones that distract students attention from learning, the research shows that students using laptops in lectures are similarly distracted, but also that it distracts those around them: 3starlearningexperiences.wordpress.com/2018/01/09/laptops-in-class-are-the-new-second-hand-smoke/

More and more schools are banning the use of mobiles in school. Before my school banned them with harsh sanctions if seen, use was utterly rife in lessons even though only allowed at break and lunch. Good kids would compulsively check their phone and then say they were just looking at the time. Let them use their phone as a calculator and they'd be on snapchat straight away.

My DC (primary age) have a kindle fire for playing games, with a time setting that switches off after 45 minutes of use. Much better than any parental controls we've found for the ipad. They're not allowed Youtube, kids are being deliberately targeted with weird, horrible and inappropriate stuff. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate

The DC only have tablets, and no internet access in the house. When we nick WiFi in restaurants, they know to only chat with people they know in RL within games. I think they're legally too young for any social media, unless there's one for under 13s?

I think this is a very serious issue and I'm willing to be that parent in order to protect my children. My 7 year old has no device of his own, and we don't have TV. He can watch things and play educational games occasionally, on mine or his dads devices, but always with supervision.
The first level of concern is the addictiveness. It's clearly addictive to adults but children are even less able to exercise self control. Who knows what the impact of this is on a developing brain?
This is followed by other concerns about content, safety, lack of exercise etc. I want my children to be tech literate, I work in technology myself, and I understand the benefits, but I'll be proceeding with caution.

I think we need to see phones just like the rest of our relationship with the outside world.

We are constantly thinking that we need to protect as a fundamental of parenthood - but this does not just mean wrapping in cotton wool; it means teaching and learning how to be safest in any environment.

Just as I have learnt that I should have been providing low risk opportunities for my (now) 11 year old to go out independently, so we do need to do that safely for our kids online. DS now doesn’t feel safe travelling to school and I realise I should have been training him up slowly for a long while. My nine year old is now given opportunity to go out independently within specific reason.

Many parents can’t get the complicated parental controls for devices and don’t engage - which is also dangerous.

We do need to teach them to use the internet carefully - just as in every aspect of life interacting socially.

Digital ‘natives’ will see this as obvious because their online world is just as real to them as offline, the parents of now are digital immigrants - and we don’t integrate in the same way.

They will realise that bullying is bullying wherever it is- ‘cyber bullying’ is a semantic term for something that been with us forever.

Let’s not forget that social media can make a massive difference for the positive too - it slcertaimly has in my life.

Of all the things I'd like to limit on my 13-yr-old DD's phone, it's YouTube - which gets through most filters. I feel she generally has a good balance in her life but there is a lot of mindless drivel on YouTube that she's compelled to watch because 'drivel vloggers' (as they are known in our home) use Instagram to whip up a frenzy about the release of their daily vlog. DD asked me the other day if I'd be proud of her if she was a YouTuber when she was older and I confess that I told her I'd be proud if she was a YouTuber who used it as a platform for a talent, interest or something worthwhile but that I'd find it hard to be proud if she vlogged her daily life e.g. getting into a car, putting on a seatbelt and going to the optician like Saffron Barker.

Apart from YouTube drivel, my main concern is the need to always be connected for fear of missing out. The router that DD's phone and laptop access, switches off at 8pm so she has to really want to engage with WhatsApp to use up some of her precious data. At bedtime her phone is outside her room or downstairs so that she can (if she feels she needs to) blame us for her not being able to partake in silly WhatsApp challenges to see who can stay up the latest - this was more of a thing with the boys in her Y6 class tbh, her Y8 WhatsApp group is like the Malory Towers characters have been given mobiles; it's all photos of homework and complaints about the French teacher.

I'd like her to spend less time on her phone in some ways but I remember getting home from school and immediately phoning the friends I'd spent all day with plus I watched TV which is something she doesn't do. It's about balance at the moment for us. I feel she is so eager to fit in that having easy access to a phone overnight would likely result in her staying awake to join in with pointlessness. By putting boundaries in place overnight we're helping her to manage the aspect of social media we feel she is currently most vulnerable to. That will change as she gets older but it's working for us at the moment (and when she's in a reasonable frame of mind, she even admits to being grateful to us for taking control of that bit!).

My son had ADHD and his specialist warned us not to allow ANY gaming as children who are ADHD often become addicted to it. We followed his advice and did not allow ds to game or have his own mobile until 16. We did however allow him to borrow brick with no internet access to take when he went out so he could ring us for lift home and text his friends. He is now grown up and has his own smartphone and computer and games occasionally. Many of his friends are obsessed with gaming and never want to go out and do anything as they are too busy gaming. We believe not allowing him to game through teen years meant he learned how to develop his communication skills.

@Laura6032 I'm aware of some research in the US back in 2006 which was inconclusive about autism and TV watching under three.

This extract is from the research:

"We ran the tests a number of different ways, and basically every way we run it, we get the same thing. If it rains more, autism goes up. If it rains less, autism goes down," Waldman says. "That is a fine theory by itself, but still one can't be sure it is TV and not some other indoor toxin that is to blame."

@Laura6032 I'm aware of some research in the US back in 2006 which was inconclusive about autism and TV watching under three.

This extract is from the research:

"We ran the tests a number of different ways, and basically every way we run it, we get the same thing. If it rains more, autism goes up. If it rains less, autism goes down," Waldman says. "That is a fine theory by itself, but still one can't be sure it is TV and not some other indoor toxin that is to blame."

@laura6032, has there been new research into Tv's and Autism? I have a severely autistic 14 year old and I'm always interested in new research. Daily Mail headlines, however, are like a little twist of a knife saying this is yet another way your failing/have failed your child.

The research I'm aware of back in 2006 was inconclusive, the following is an extract:

"We ran the tests a number of different ways, and basically every way we run it, we get the same thing. If it rains more, autism goes up. If it rains less, autism goes down," Waldman says. "That is a fine theory by itself, but still one can't be sure it is TV and not some other indoor toxin that is to blame."

So I listened to it and the main thing I took from it was some games are addictive.

I’d like to see or hear a fuller discussion about how to restrict/parent around screen time. Not telly so much, more solo screen time eg YouTube drivel as one pp put it, addictive games, social media etc