Children, smartphones and addictiveness: Woman's Hour want to know what you think

[RowanMumsnet]

Morning all

Justine (our Supreme Leader) has been invited on to Woman's Hour tomorrow morning to discuss the issue of children, smartphones and addictiveness.

The discussion has been prompted by this news story, in which investors in Apple stock have called on the company to 'consider the impact excessive use of smartphones had on the mental health of young people', and are asking Apple to develop software - a 'digital lock' - that limits how long children can use its phones.

According to the BBC:

"In their letter, the two investors pointed to numerous studies which suggest excessive phone use can disrupt lessons, harm students' ability to concentrate on school work and deprive them of sleep. The document also mentioned the impact that "heavy use" of social media can have on self-esteem and its possible influence on childhood depression."

"According to a Reuters report, half of US teenagers believe they are addicted to their mobile phones and feel the need to respond immediately to messages."

"The makers of such "powerful products" also needed to help parents ensure phones are being used optimally. They called on Apple to improve its current parental control systems which, they said, were a "binary, all or nothing approach"."

So - we'd love to hear what you think about this. Is mobile, web-enabled tech addictive or problematic in terms of its claims on children's attention? Is this unique to phones or does it apply to other devices? How do you manage your children's access to smartphones and tablets, and to social media apps and games? Do you think these issues affect their wellbeing? Would limiting the amount of time they can spend on their phones help? Would you like their devices to have this capability? (Would you like it on your own devices?) Is this a problem unique to or particularly damaging for children?

So many questions - do let us know what you think and how you manage this issue within your own families.

And don't forget to tune in to Woman's Hour tomorrow (Wednesday Jan 9) to hear the item.

Thanks
MNHQ

I am quite a lazy, busy liberal parent and don't have strict rules like apparently some of my dc's friends have (eg no phones after 9pm or no phones in bedroom at night) 13 yo is on phone a lot, 10 yo on iPad a lot at night and 7 yo uses iPod more than I'd like. Only downside I see is 10 yo staying awake much longer than he should. Often going to sleep after me (11ish).

Any facility to limit time on device would be useful to get the kids to prioritise use and help the mindless watching of YouTube.

I have been able to limit the time my DS spends online via tablet (app) and Pc (integral as part of user settings).

Internet is definitely addictive - not going to lie, sometimes he behaves like one of my relatives who was addicted to online gambling (highs and lows of mood, constantly checking accounts etc.) I believe that because their brains aren't fully developed as yet, children are particularly vulnerable to stuff that is solely designed to keep users online.

I think it will be a really good to have integral programs on the phones too.

I think this is a wider issue that affects adults as much as or possibly more than children. Whenever the question of limiting time on devices crops up here there's a wail from all the parents who are equally fond of their phones. Children will copy the behaviour they see. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

My 11 year old has a phone but he doesn't use it much, it stays in his bag at school. He mostly uses it for phoning me when there is going to be a play rehearsal after school so needs picking up later. He has a tablet that he uses for games but doesn't have social media.

Ds's use theirs all the time. But so do I. I don't find it affects my concentration or has a negative effect on my mindset.
If I thought it was I would reduce. Both theirs and mine.

I work with older teens at college and the number one complaint from tutors there is inability to concentrate due to phone use. Students unwilling to switch their phone off or leave in ‘amnesty’ box for duration of class. Teachers spend a proportion of the class dealing with those using their phones. I imagine they could achieve so much more were it not for growing up with smart phones.

My son is 7 and so doesn’t have a phone but he is addicted to watching YouTube via our tv package... parental controls are useless against ‘gamer’ videos which are not adult content but not suitable for endless watching by kids. I was told if I wanted to restrict YouTube access I would have to cancel my entire contract for tv.

I hope some restrictions can be put in place before he gets a phone as his YouTube use directly affects his behaviour.

I think that smartphones are incredibly addictive and powerful devices that we have unwittingly put into the hands of children who are far too young to regulate their own use.

We will look back one day and see it as we now see smoking - a public health disaster that we had no idea was so dangerous at the time.

As adults we know that our phones make us distracted and anxious - teen brains are still developing and yet we have failed to grasp the danger we are putting them in. This is a serious risk to the mental heath of entire generations of young people.

We have to limit their access to the internet and social media just as we stop them drinking and smoking and having under age sex. We cannot leave it to apple to do this! It is laughable to think they will have our childrens interests at heart - it has to come from parents/ campaigners / taechers.

So weird to see a parent start this thread saying they let their kids do what they want online/ use their phones as much as they like - would you talk like that about smoking or drinking? yet we know phones cause mental anguish and addiction and anxiety.

My DC's have to leave their phone downstairs at bedtime, so we manage without an evening curfew, but I would like to set a limit on the total amount of time spent using the device each day. Currently the only way to do this is via a third party app like Qustodio, which works but is very intrusive - they require far too many access permissions for comfort. Also, when time is up, the phone can't even be used for basic communication functions like calls or texts, which is undesirable if you want your child's phone to be a lifeline. An inbuilt mechanism would be so much better.

I would also like to be able to restrict access to all apps (not just the age restricted apps), so the DC's have to ask permission before installing anything. Then, even if the answer is usually "yes", it means I can spend time with them looking at the T&C's and permissions each time rather than them just accepting all the defaults without reading them. This level of control is possible will Apple Family Sharing, but not yet with Android.

No phones during the week or during meals. Only after all homework is completed on weekends.

I’ve learnt to watch my own mobile phone usage and try to be a good example.

Anyone who thinks a lot of smartphone use doesn't affect concentration is kidding themselves.

It impacts on mood in our house - children are less collaberative, want to lock themselves in their rooms to watch 'their' programmes etc.

My children are relatively young so I can do this but I limit iPad time to 1 hour at weekends.

I honestly dont know how you would do it with teens

I have a 13yr old son and 12yr old daughter. They have pads not phones and NO social media or texting. They are only allowed 1.5 he a day and NO more. They don't complain.

I do not have social media myself so I do not allow my children on it. The age is 13 but I have not let my 13yr old.

We have an evening curfew but I am concerned about the length of time my kids spend on screens. We have blocks and filters for content but that doesn't stop certain things coming up on YouTube which I'm really not keen for them to be watching.

I've always been clear with the kids that I will monitor the sites they've been on and will periodically check their phones. Musical.ly is my biggest bugbear at the moment. It's so sexualized and all the year 6 girls are addicted to it so I'm being very pressured by dd who is desperate to have an account

I will be listening to WH tomorrow!

I wholeheartedly believe that smartphones and unfettered access to social media through whatever channel is damaging to concentration and mental health.

My children are young (7 and 9) so we don't have the issue at the moment but I have no doubt we will do in the not too distant future. My concern is that home used to be a "safe" space, so that whatever was happening at school, you could come home and it couldn't reach you. Now there is access to friends, bullies, pressure 24 hours a day.

I'd like a lock for me, forget the kids!

Children under 16 shouldn't have smartphones in my opinion. My 14 year old was given an iPhone unwittingly at age 11. Had I had any idea how uncontrollably addictive it was going be I wouldn't have given her one. My younger 2 won't be getting one. This generation are the guinea pigs of the digital age. Unlimited access to social media and Internet while brains re still forming and hormones and anxiety is a recipe for depression, anxiety and irritability generally. Teenagers are a walking time bomb of mental health issues. In my generation we were outdoors, having real life experiences and social contact. Children are being robbed of their childhood and innocence, becoming unhealthy, obsessive and anxious. It's not good for your brain, smartphones are time thief's, destroyers of relationships and a barrier to reading, writing and being creative. Everything people say here will mention 'limits' and 'self control' etc. well I challenge you that you don't need limits when children are reading, writing and creating. limits are very hard to enforce and a massive responsibility for parents. A time limit would be great but is only half the problem. Don't even get me started on porn and unhealthy images online either.

completely agree with mamabear - smartphones are not appropriate for young teens at all - guineapigs indeed - I think we will look back at this time and think we were all incredibly naive to let the companies like facebook and apple get their grubby mits on our kids brains.

I think it's changing society enormously. I see a big difference in my stepson's mood and behaviour when he doesn't have access to a device and it saddens me. It scares me for when my son reaches his age.

My children are not old enough to have a smart phone as yet. But when they r it will be limited use only. They will have enough credit to make short calls over a month. As for Internet access, it will Be limited or else WiFi will be switched off. I. Don't mind If children are online as long as it is useful. As for social media, it is not on the cards until they r old enough to realise the risks involved.

My s8 was Stolen and I was without a mobile for about 3 weeks. I have to say it was the least stressful time on my life and I loved not having it.

I don't use social media- I occasionally browse mumsnet and contribute but would never even dream of getting my phone out to look online when with others. However I have lots of friends and family who do! (Eg- Facebook!)

I'm glad my teens use social media - their social life is a lot healthier than mine was at the same age as a direct result of being able to chat to friends more easily and arrange to meet up in person more spontaneously. I would just like to limit the negative 'memes' they're constantly bombarded with, and the total amount of time spent online. I would also like parental access to their accounts (that is, via my own password rather than having to insist on knowing theirs). If all parents had that by default, teens would be more cautious about what they posted online.

With a bit of common sense responsibility from the tech industry all this should be possible.

In the summer we let both our children (12 & 13) choose a phone. The older one has an android phone which is routinely time limited with Qustodio and we have also been able to jump on some questionable activity.

The younger one chose an iPhone SE, having used MacOS on computers we were expecting similarly bulletproof parental controls. NO! virtually nothing built in except Mickey mouse Restrictions, no time limits, no remote control/monitoring, parental control software easily disabled by child. It is a nightmare and as a child that suffers anxiety and uses his phone as distraction /soothing, it has crept up on us he is practically addicted.

It forces me to have other apple devices to monitor his iTunes use and we will soon have to replace our MAC desktop just to keep up with software. We are furious with Apple. BADLY DONE.

So all in all, Apple are the villains in selling attractive devices with minimal controls or compatibility with other parental control software.

Neither of my two have smartphones because they both have iPads which are easier to monitor as they are in the house. Most of my DS’s friends however do have smartphones and access to social media so my DS does miss out on some social events sometimes. So we do feel he will need to have one soon. As said above, I hate the binary nature of parental controls. As a teenager I’d like him to be able to have greater access than a 12 year old but to keep it safe and manageable. In fact I’d like to be able to block more content/ pop ups etc on my own Iphone too without losing access to 18 rated movies etc. I know other parents who worry about addiction and have lots of rules. I also know there was some bullying on social media when DS first went to secondary school which he completely avoided by not having an iPhone! But we use social media on our phones to arrange our social lives so we do think it will be important for the kids.
I sometimes worry because we don’t have screen time rules as a family. Our rules are as long as you are doing a wide variety of things (sport, music, hobbies), get your homework done and have a good attitude, you can freely use your screens. After all, that’s what we do as parents. Maybe it would be different if they had smartphones? But I hope not.
Personally I can’t see the point of a younger child having a smartphone or indeed access to social media. At primary age their social lives etc are pretty much managed by parents/carers so no need for their own communication.

I too am very concerned about the use of smartphones by teens and pre-teens. Seeing my stepson, age 13, glued to his phone at every possible moment, distracted by it when he’s supposed to be getting ready / watching a family film / playing a board game with his siblings is worrying and frustrating. He is constantly playing games or watching YouTube, the content of which is mostly inane but sometimes inappropriate.

Social media is not a problem (yet) but the ground rules for his use and parental monitoring of his tech are not in place. His reaction to be asked to put his phone down is telling (he finds it difficult to say the least!) It is certainly giving me pause for thought before I allow my own, younger, son to have a smartphone. When I do relent, my stance will be to impose as many restrictions as I can on its use as I can always loosen these - it’s very difficult taking away the privilege once it’s granted.

I would also like to have a better way of restricting our home wifi. It’s all-or-nothing at the moment. To restrict YouTube means we can’t stream anything! (No iPlayer or Netflix for example.). More bespoke controls would be very useful. I really worry about YouTube as it seems to slip past our internet controls and much of the content is shocking. I would like to see Government intervention in this area. If Google / YouTube can’t prevent child abuse videos and illegal porn being uploaded, they should not be allowed to operate at all.

Following with interest as currently limiting time on ipad - however D'S 8 is now getting left behind in his peer group as not aware of the world as much as his friends who have learnt more from utube etc. It's getting the balance for the age and personality that is most challenging in my view. My other D'S 6 is not too interested except to watch tv programmes. A variable time limit control on ipad would be great as part of parental controls.