H.P.V - Decided not to immunise 12yo - Am I alone in this decision ?

[Tillyboo]

The school nurse letter sat on my desk for a few weeks before a niggling feeling compelled me to research Gardasil.

I have been told that as long as the girl is 100% healthy with no underlying health issues or allergies, the occurances of side affects are few and less serious. But, I have read reports and papers, watched videos of young girls who have been seriously physically affected by the immunisation. Gardasil is relatively new on the market and the US and Denmark do not hold it in high regard. I believe Japan have removed it from the market too ? Am I being selfish to deny my daughter this injection ?

We discussed this a while back with a group of our medical friends (DH is a Dr) and we agreed the importance of this vaccine is so great that we will all be paying for it for our sons (less high proven benifit cost ratio which is why it's currently not available on NHS although there is a push by the medical profession to review this)

My sons have had it (boys and girls both get it in year 7 in Australia). I could find no credible evidence (ie in a peer reviewed medical journal) that made me hesitate.

Anyone can put anything on the internet which will then come up on a Google search - they don't need to be experts, they don't need any evidence, it doesn't even need to be true. You need to evaluate the quality of what you're reading, not just the quantity.

Why are those supporting this vaccine so aggressive in their responses ? There are mixed opinions from experts and 'joe public. There is very real concern about the validity and safety, afterall it is a relatively new vaccine and no-one really knows the impact until 20 years or so of the vaccine being in use. My opening post wasn't a scathing attack on the HPV vaccine, I wasn't pointing fingers and being rude about those choosing to vaccinate. You cannot deny all the poor girls who are now suffering because they 'happened to have' an adverse reaction. It CANNOT be coincidence as the medical experts are trying to convey. Their are arguments for an against the vaccine but at the end of the day you have to decide based on your findings and what sits comfortably with you.

I've seen at least five years worth of girls have this at school now- an a teacher- and always tell them the same thing, I wish I'd had the chance to have it. No question. All vaccinations carry a risk but cervical cancer is the most common cancer in young women.

"You cannot deny all the poor girls who are now suffering because they 'happened to have' an adverse reaction. It CANNOT be coincidence" It can, you know! Do you actually have any proper evidence of damage by this vaccine?

Yes it really can be coincidence.

DD2 developed severe symptoms of PoTS (the condition the girls in the Danish study have) a month or so after her third jab. She faints 3-4 times a month in a good phase, 3-4 times a day in a bad one. She's missed a LOT of school, and has very little social life. When we go on holiday this summer, she'll be in a wheelchair at every airport, as standing in hot stuffy queues will trigger a faint. She takes medication every 2.5 hours during the day. She's sprained joints I didn't know you could even sprain.

But, despite all that, and even if (and it's a big if, as looking back, she's had milder symptoms most of her life) there is a link, she is adamant that she'd rather have had the vaccine than not. As she says "PoTS won't kill me, cancer might".

FWIW both DD1 and DD3 have had the vaccine too (DD3 after her sister was diagnosed).

You must be so proud of raising such a level headed daughter, soup

Tbh as we can't go back and change things, she doesn't have much option other than to make the best of things, but she did advise dd3 to have it done

Well that's an awfully big number to be a coincidence ! I have read about HPV from many angles, listened to interviews, programmes & I still believe Gardasil triggers something in the girls and boys who suffer the adverse reactions.
I am not anti-vaccine, my daughter had all her childhood immunisations.

For those with an open mind, you may be interested to watch this ..

What bothers me is that parents are NOT being told of the serious adverse reactions, only that the child may have redness or soreness at the site of the injection or may feel a little giddy afterwards. To allow parents to make the right decision for them, surely it has to be transparent.

Merck has now identified the number of serious adverse reactions which were identified during the trials as well as the number of autoimmune disorders.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind either way, I just hope parents do their research fully.

Tillyboo, your posts don't come across as coming from an open mind, and indeed your thread title was more honest - you are clearly completely convinced that Gardasil is a very bad idea.

In all the HPV vaccine posts I have seen like yours, there will be a glancing reference to particular issues, which aren't returned to or which are put in a sentence with other things. Denmark 'don't hold Gardasil in high regard' - what does that mean? I'm not sure how many girls have been vaccinated in Denmark and Sweden together, but I know it's at least 300,000, because that's the number of vaccinated girls studied compared with 700,000 unvaccinated girls showed absolutely no difference in SERIOUS side-effects. When you say 'that's an awfully big number to be a coincidence', what number do you mean?

First, do no harm; convincing girls who have developed horrible illnesses that science and the language of science is dismissing them, rather than helping them and other girls like them, is harmful; working to prevent uptake of vaccination so that more women will go through cervical cancer is harmful; and posting in a disingenuous way, rather than posting your real feelings, is harmful. Ironically, spreading fears and anxieties about the vaccine makes the actual reactions to the vaccine more likely. Psychogenic illness is horrific, I have met a lot of people who suffer from anxiety and psychogenic illnesses and they are suffering far more than most people I know with physical illnesses. I think posts like yours can make those illnesses more likely to develop.

Thanks for posting and answering my questions. I'm sorry you have had health problems Ouriana.

I've done research on some health and cancer websites and I'm going to vaccinate at 14. This gives protection from HPV for five years untill DD is 19 and presumably more responsible.

According to the information I've researched, where I am, those under 15 have two shots and those over 15 have 3. Most problems are associated with the third shot according to the groups of parents who have reactive daughters.

I've always had abnormal smears and have been called back for a second smear with every smear I have. I have a smear every two years.
I've not had many sexual partners and always used a condom, except in two LTRs when I was on oral BC, and TTCing.
Ive had a scan of virus antibodies (private) which showed I'd had most of the viruses even though I've been asymptomatic. For eg I've never had a cold sore but I came up as having been exposed to the herpes virus, and developed anti bodies to it.

I suppose now we know which virus is more likely to cause a cancer, we should vaccinate against it before the people are exposed to it.

On another tangent, the cancers wiping out the Tasmanian devil populations are sexually transmitted, and there was a back lash against this research being taken seriously for a while as it had to do with (OMG) sex.
I'm glad those kinds of puritanical thinking aren't influencing the debate, as the reality is that teens do have sex and they aren't always responsible about condoms, barrier methods.

Overall it makes sense really to vaccinate I think.
Thanks for sharing your stories, which have helped me think about this, and soup, I hope your DD is better soon.

Bengal, I'm sorry to hear you've had cervical cancer, and hope you're healthy now.

I'm a little confused now as to how you think HPV can be transmitted without sexual contact? You say condoms/ barrier method make no difference? So what's to stop anyone getting the HPV virus that's been shown to cause cervical cancer without having sexual contact.

Barrier methods such as dams and condoms stop other viruses, why not HPV? Is there another way that the HVP virus which causes cancer can be transmitted? I mean are we talking about toilet seats, or coughing on public transport, for example?

Surely then it would be better to include the vaccine with the childhood / infant vaccination program, before the infant has met anyone infectious?

I don't understand.
Can you clarify what you've posted please?

Zazen why not vaccinate now and just request a booster when needed?

Also isn't it cervarix that requires three jabs, gardasil 2? Not sure about that.

Why are you bothered about other parents doing their research, OP?

You're convinced they're wrong and you're right so why not go ahead and refuse to allow your DD to have the vaccination. Just keep your fingers crossed that this decision doesn't backfire because it'll be she who suffers the consequences, not you.

Zazan but what if your DD has sex at 14 or 15, before she is vaccinated?

Tillyboo-do you actually have any facts to support your beliefs? Any peer reviewed papers-anything like that?

I think it's clear the OP isn't taking this seriously when she posts:

My dd is terrified of injections so her decision would still be a 'No' whether she agreed with the immunisation or not.

I'm out.