H.P.V - Decided not to immunise 12yo - Am I alone in this decision ?

[Tillyboo]

The school nurse letter sat on my desk for a few weeks before a niggling feeling compelled me to research Gardasil.

I have been told that as long as the girl is 100% healthy with no underlying health issues or allergies, the occurances of side affects are few and less serious. But, I have read reports and papers, watched videos of young girls who have been seriously physically affected by the immunisation. Gardasil is relatively new on the market and the US and Denmark do not hold it in high regard. I believe Japan have removed it from the market too ? Am I being selfish to deny my daughter this injection ?

This is a very interesting article and video - for both 'fors' and 'againsts'
healthimpactnews.com/2015/tv2-denmark-documentary-on-hpv-vaccine-shows-lives-of-young-women-ruined/

I didn't want DD to have this vaccination, despite vaccinating her against everything else on the childhood programme, because of the likelihood of her inheriting genetic diseases and some evidence to suggest that these and the HPV vaccination don't mix. However, evidence either way was slight and DD decided she did want the injection, so I filled in the consent form and sent her into school with it. Can't say I'm 100% happy with this but I wouldn't have been 100% happy with refusing it, either.

Whenever I have looked at the risks for a healthy child, they look tiny, and hence I have paid for ds to have it. Parents of children with chronic conditions may feel differently. I am influenced by the knowledge that every single vaccine ever produced, back to the 1842 cholera virus, has been talked about in similar ways. There are risks [especially that cholera virus] but in general they are small.

It was such an exciting medical breakthrough when it was discovered that cervical cancer was almost always caused by 1 of 20 or so of the forms of HPV. And then to have a vaccine to protect from those - it's wonderful.

The chances of a healthy 12 year old girl having a bad reaction to the vaccine is minuscule compared to her chances of later being infected with one of those 20 types (plus the other 9 types that there are indications may be involved) of HPV that could cause cervical cancer.

I really wish that a larger population of this country were taught the proper understanding of risk.

It's not just the danger of contracting cervical cancer, but also the largely unspoken consequences of successful treatments for said cervical cancer.

I have a condition that causes late miscarriages and stillbirths. I would say over half of the women in my support groups have contracted this condition after significant procedures on their cervix after a diagnosis of cervical cancer. These women become cancer free, but they then lose their healthy babies after 20 weeks plus into pregnancy because their cervix has been undermined by treatment.

It's not just a question of "vaccine" vs "dying from cancer."

Absolutely agree somer

A friend of mine from my teens developed HPV-associated throat cancer in his 40s. He survived, but the treatment was agonizing and long.

I don't know what the OP meant in saying that the vaccine is not well- regarded in the US; most reputable pediatricians here do recommend it. All four of my children will or already have received it.

Tillyboo When you talk about both sides of the arguement and fors and against it sounds like you think this is something that is still up in the air, with no-one really knowing for sure, or even a matter of opinion.

There is a vast amount of data on both the relative safety of the vaccine (relative because nothing is absolute) and the huge protection it offers from the most harmful forms of HPV. The NHS wouldn't be funding this if there weren't.

A few anecdotes here and there, which are often grossly exaggerated by those who have passed them on to you, is nothing compared to the days of hundred of thousands of patients that have been collected.

I knew a bit about cervical cancer and HPV but I did look up papers on Pubmed when the letter came home from my DD's school. And I couldn't see anything even slightly alarming. My DD was nervous about the injection as it was just after her father had died in hospital and my children had become rather phobic about medical procedures. He died during his treatment for lymphoma, so not having a cancer vaccine wasn't an option she was interested in. But she thought about putting the vaccine off until she felt less traumatised. She then decided that although she felt like she wouldn't be sexually active for many years, she could be sexually assaulted and therefore exposed. So, no, I don't think it's a huge ask for a 12 year old to make an informed desicion about this. But with the caveat that informed, as with any medical desicion, means based on peer-reviewed studis with large data sets in well regarded medical journals.

Of all the vaccines available, this is the one I would definitely avoid. There are quite a few lawsuits going on at the moment about the young girls who have been damaged by it, and it seems that it only claims to be effective against a few of the many papillona viruses in existence.

IMHO, the pharmaceutical companies have become much more irresponsable with their vaccines since they have been protected from being directly sued.

Good grief.

Health impact news is not a reliable news source.

Can anyone tell me how long the vaccine works for? I've read that it only protects for five years or so. Having it at 12 seems young, as it will have become in effective by the time the child is 17.

Also can anyone tell me if the girl isn't having sex can she get the virus any other way?

Also can anyone tell me if she has regular smears isn't this enough to catch any abnormalities in the cervix, if she's abstinent from unprotected sex?

Can you get HPV throat cancer from unprotected piv sex (where the virus travels throughout the body) or just oral sex?

I understand the benefit of all other vaccines! But I'm not convinced that this one is any use at all if it's administered too early before the girl is having sex, also if the girl uses a condom, also if the girl has regular smear tests?

For childhood diseases of airborne viruses, yes, I agree to vaccinate, but can't see the benefit of so early a vaccination for HPV if it doesn't last that long, and if it gives a false sense of security regarding protection against STDs and also cancer.

Does the vaccine cover all strains of HPV? I've read it only provides protection from a few.

Perhaps using condoms and regular smears may prove of greater benefit in the long run, especially with chlymadia, hepatitis, HIV and antibiotic resistant gonorrhoea so prevalent.

A lot of people are saying the vaccine prevents cancer?
I've read that this is not true.

The vaccine is against some strains of HPV which have been linked to some kinds of cervical and throat cancers (not all). The actual vaccine itself doesn't not stop cancer, it stops some strains of a virus.

Cancer is caused by many factors, (some genetic, some epigenetic, some environmental) and regular smears and health checks like blood tests will pick up these cellular changes.

I can't see the benefit of this vaccine. Especially not at 12.

Has anyone any answers for my many questions? TIA.

Zazen
Your distinction between 'preventing cancer' and 'preventing a cause of cancer' is a pretty silly one. Hpv is a proven cause of cancer - if you choose not to believe that there isn't much anyone can do to help you.
Young women don't get smear tests and once you start getting them they are only every 3 years so not at all as effective as a vaccine.
The vaccine protects against the strains that are known to cause cancer.
Strewth- this is all proven fact and you still aren't convinced that it has a benefit? Ok

There are a lot more sources of information apart from Health impact news and no, I do have blind faith in scientists. Scientists, probably in all good faith, brought us DDT, mad cow disease, thalidomide, to name but a few. My interest is purely academic though, as my daughter was already grown by the time this vaccine came in.

Exactly. I can't get my head around it.

I had my dds vaccinated in the catch-up programme.

Cervical cancer is caused by HPV infection. Sometimes this virus damages the cells, and sometimes this leads to changes that become cancer. Cervical screening picks up changes that may lead to cancer, but it requires treatment for people who will probably not develop cancer in order not to miss the ones who do.

Vaccination is much more straight forward and much more effective.

My dds may live their lives as vestal virgins, until an equally virginal Mr Right comes along, marry and lead monogamous lives and never need the vaccine. But the chances are pretty slim these days. It worked for their grandparents in the 1950s, but HPV is so common and easy to get now.

Also, as this vaccinated group are getting to cervical screening age, the whole future system of screening will have to change. Cervical cancer is likely to become less common and like other cancers that are less common, it will be harder to pick up. It will be interesting to see what they do about this.

It's a difficult one I will admit.

The stories in the news are scary IF the vaccine is proved to the reason the girls are suffering.

Dd is 3. I am hopeful by the time she is 12 it will be proven to be safe or not. As it stands, I will be getting her vaccinated.

Could you link to the proper, peer reviewed research papers you read?

Incidentally, they cut the immediate adverse reactions in my dd's school down to practically zero by giving the second injection to each girl individually behind closed doors......................

My dd has had the jabs, I asked her what she wanted to do and she opted to go ahead and have them. Her decision and her body.

Ok , let me get this straight.

Cervical cancer is caused by HPV virus, mostly two strains.
The vaccine prevents anyone getting the strain most likely to cause cervical cancer.

Is that right? Sorry if I'm annoying anyone, I'm just trying to get my head around it.

Now, what about throat cancer, and other cancers... Are these caused by precancerous / cancerous cervical cells moving about the body and settling in somewhere, or by HPV actually getting to the throat or other areas?

When do girls get their first cervical smear? Are these scheduled to occur regularly throughout their lives?
Blood tests can show markers for cervical cancer, why aren't these being taken?
Is there a test to show antibodies to the virus in adults? Are those who have been exposed to the virus strains which cause cancer flagged as needing especially regular smears/ tests?

How long does the vaccine work for? I've read it only works for 5 years, and after that a booster is needed and another one and another one etc etc, like the tetanus jab.

How long are the girls protected with the HPV vaccine... Anyone know?

Why do they give them at 12? Why not at 15 to cover them till 20.
Who made that decision to give them at 12?
Why was that decision made? What is the evidence that supports that decision?
Are there boosters for the 17 year olds, or do they think the vaccine lasts a lifetime so they don't have to be careful?

Is there any benefit to getting the vaccine pre TTCing when contraception is avoided? How long does the active infectious virus last in the body? Can an adult man give an unprotected woman a virus? Or visa versa?

Why aren't we all getting vaccinated?

I'm not anti vaccine, but I like to get a grip of the facts, and make an informed decision.

TIA