MMR booster

[Jux]

DD, now 13, had single jabs when she was 2ish (long story, don't ask!).

When she started school she had the MMR booster.

Now the surgery here have said she needs another MMR booster. I don't understand why, but I don't want to waste my gp's time getting him to explain it to me.

Don't the singles count at all?

No they don't. I was on an immunisation update only yesterday (practice nurse) and single mmr vaccines are not counted. Reason being many of them were purchased from outside this country and not subject to the stringent rules we have here eg, re storage below a certain temp, manufacture etc. Therefore their efficacy is uncertain.

Your DD will definitely need the second MMR to ensure she is adequately protected. (There is absolutely no harm in having one too many anyway).

Thank you CPtart, I see now. No idea where dd's singles came from, though the private gp who jabbed her did tell us. It's faintly possible we might have documentation somewhere, but I don't think it's worth looking for it. The dear child shall be jabbed again in a couple of weeks. She will be cross!

Good to know you can't be over-immunised!

It will make no difference if you turn up with documentation about the single vaccs they still won't count. I can't add any more than CP has already said (practice nurse here too).

Thanks to you too, XBenedict (great name ). She has an appointment in a couple of weeks, and then she'll be tickety-boo!

There is a lot of scaremongering going on about the single measles vaccine.

Rouvax, the main one used in the UK, is manufactured by sanofi Pasteur (the same manufacturer that makes Pediacel - the 5 in 1 vaccine) I don't see anyone worrying about the quality of its manufacture and storage

Also, many people choose to test their child's immunity before giving the booster to see if it's necessary and for most it isn't required - they are immune from their first single measles vaccine.

Your doctors will not recognise the single measles vaccine but that doesn't mean it hasn't worked. If you are happy enough to go for the second MMR even though she may not need it then that's fine. If you'd rather know, you could have a blood test done.

Bumbley, what about mumps and rubella?

The mumps vaccine isn't currently available but it was manufactured by Merck. Rudivax (rubella) is also manufactured by Sanofi Pasteur.

Bumbley, I was just reading your post (thanks for the info, very useful) and thought I could aave the NHS some money by not bothering with this second jab, but then I saw you said about having a blood test, which will probably end up costing as much. Not really very well run is it?! Let's give lots of children another vaccine because they might not be immune because we have to pretend that the singles don't exist.

Blair's lot at the time were really unhelpful and never actually answered questions about singles, and it seems the unhelpfulness is continuing. I almost feel like they want to punish dd because I wound up giving her the singles in the first place!

I know Jux. I don't think you're the only one feeling like that! The whole 'booster' thing isn't particularly efficient either. Around 90-95% of children should be immune from the first jab. The second one is just to try to catch the 5-10% who aren't immune from the first one. So lots of children having a booster they don't need! Unfortunately, if you want to know if your child is immune you have to pay to have the blood test.

Actually, I'm happy to pay for a blood test to check her immunity (if it's not toooooooo much!) if it saves some NHS money and saves dd from having an unnecessary jab and saves me the necessity of rushing her round to the doc after school. I might ring the surgery tomorrow and ask about it.

You may have to go private for it Jux. The clinics that offer the singles usually offer it and prices can vary betwen them. I'm not sure what part of the country you're in. Google is your friend!

We are in the same position re the single jabs, and its nonsense to suggest that rogue vaccines were widely used in single jabs, there is no evidence to support reputable clinics doing this! MMR was given about 6 months ago pre school and the nurse said then, DGS needed another MMR. DD politely declined!

If your DD is 13 I would accept the repeat MMR but for these reasons: the rubella part wears of in many women around 30 or doesn't 'take' so this is good preparation for pregnancy protection. The mumps component also wears off in the early teens/young adults and mumps in this age group is an increasing problem and can cause sterility in males and is unpleasant for everyone. I think there may be an element of ovarian inflammation but not entirely sure on that. I know there has been several bad cases particularly in the university setting. I am not sure about measles and if the immunity stays, but it wouldn't hurt and could avoid an extremely nasty illness in adults and can be passed on to children.

Surely an immunity test will give you the answer you need.

This booster isn't a booster at all. It's designed to catch children who have not gained immunity through earlier vaccines. So given your child has already had two vaccines it's much more likely than not that it will have immunity. Much more likely - even with one MMR it's 90-95 per cent likely so with single vaccines on top, your child would be very unusual not to have immunity.

Wel obviously you know it's not a booster, but the chances of your child not being immune are terribly low.

I don't have a big thing about vaccinations so don't feel it's a major or dangerous issue and I think vaccinating at 13 with the MMR is less nasty than subjecting a child to blood testing. I think there is an advantage to MMR at 13 based on the merits alone.

Rubella immunity can wear off and if it does (IIRC) it's after about 25-30 years. That's why, in the days of single shots, it was often given in year 7 (exact timing varied between areas) so that it was likely the child-bearing years would be covered.

Crumble. Google the mumps problem which the health department were looking into in university type settings. Immunity from vaccines do wear off unfortunately. Rubella used to be offered at 13 anyway but it appears to have been stopped when the MMR was introduced.

NHS says rubella immunity about 23 years? Great timing.

Mumps 19 years or less? Great timing.

Waning does not mean the second MMR is not a booster.

Th single vaccines do 'count', as in they are highly likely to have done their job inside your child's body. They just don't count on an NHS computer system which doesn't allow single vaccines to be taken into consideration.

My dc had the single vaccines, the NHS GP surgery has received notification of the vaccines used etc and has been givenroof of their immunity after the blood test. My children are still registered as completely unvaccinated.

Crumble. The child probably has immunity at the moment because of the singles and the MMR, but these diseases really cause problems because the immunity is wearing off, in future years, so its extremely sensible to vaccinate at 13. I wouldn't wast money on blood tests or single jabs now, especially as MMR has been given in the past.

Well, this is the problem, isn't it? That the NHS is not allowed to acknowledge the single jabs so is being forced to spend extra money in order to tidy up its books. It annoys me.

On the other hand, it makes sense to ensure dd is covered for as long as possible. So according to the 'life' of these immunities, as Crumbled has said, it would actually be quite a good idea for dd to have another jab, which will keep her protected until she's that much older.

I wouldn't actually have dragged her off for a blood test, btw, though it was certainly was an option. I have no doubt in my own mind that she is fully protected atm.

She is quite old enough to make up her own mind about whether she wants to have another jab. She has said that she doesn't but I shall point out the things you have all said since my last post, and then we'll have a think and chat about it again. The appointment for it is still standing, so if dd decides that she'd want it after all, she can have it.

Thank you all for your help.

She's had two measles, two mumps and two rubella. It's good enough for everyone else. What's the problem? If waning immunity is that much of a problem then everyone should be done. AT the moment they don't even advise that the rubella might have worn off so they aren't that fret.

Jux - I think mumps gives some protection against ovarian cancer.

According to one or two studies ( don't ask me to link I read about it maybe 10 years ago!)

Actually it was me who suggested getting re vaccinated at 13, but either way its a sensible option to look at what is right for your child. I've no doubt at 13 we will look at MMR purely for the boy/mumps issue as we have also done, singles and 1 dose of MMR.